Where did you rank Kevin Durant at his highest and where do you have him now?

Nick Wright made a good point the other day when he said that 5-6 years ago, there was lots of talk of KD being top 10 all-time with some prominent analysts putting him in there.

Now he was saying that it's a struggle to get him in the top 20. I have to say I agree.

Where DID you rank him and where DO you rank him now? Has it changed?

I think the league (G-League included) tends to expand before his playing time take a considerable drop

I was never as high on him as other people.

I just dont value one dimensional scorers THAT highly, no matter how talented. I mean I think they can have a lot of value, but I dont just look at scoring as the singular measure of a player’s impact the way a lot of fans do.

KD was never above average as a playmaker, rebounder, defender, leader, or really anything but a jump shooter.

And thats not to say hes not a great player who brought alot of value to his teams in his prime. His shot making is valuable. Im saying that compared to other fans I never saw him as really anything close to becoming “top 10 all time.” But I also didnt give a shit how many mvps or championships he was gonna win or whatever, which a lot of people assumed he would and that affects how they rank him. I rank people based on how I see them, not irrelevant criteria based on the players circumstance.

Its called abstract thinking. Considering a concept when you dont have concrete instructions and formulae. Deciding how to analyze it through a fluid cloud of factors, not just desperately searching for an “a + b = c” formula that society or some authority told you is how to do it.

But I think most peoples brains arent actually wired to do that. I always used to think it was a choice people made for some strange reason. But I actually think the opposite now.

KD was never considered a top 10 player. Nick Wright is talking completely out his ass on this one :lol

[QUOTE=FultzNationRISE;14903178]

Its called abstract thinking. Considering a concept when you dont have concrete instructions and formulae. Deciding how to analyze it through a fluid cloud of factors, not just desperately searching for an “a + b = c” formula that society or some authority told you is how to do it.

[/QUOTE]

even if you did a Venn Diagram, you'd still arrive at an a + b = c conclusion

I have him ~top 15. 27 ppg on 50/39/88 for his career is absolutely incredible. If he had 2 fmvp’s with literally any other team he’d be top 10.

Durant was absolutely an above average defender in his peak. That is without question. Especially in today's league of switching. It's just hating or blatant turning a blind eye to the obvious if you think he wasn't.

There were plenty of nights he was the most impactful defender on the Warriors team.

[QUOTE=Nowoco;14903175]Nick Wright made a good point the other day when he said that 5-6 years ago, there was lots of talk of KD being top 10 all-time with some prominent analysts putting him in there.

Now he was saying that it's a struggle to get him in the top 20. I have to say I agree.

Where DID you rank him and where DO you rank him now? Has it changed?[/QUOTE]

speculation -- I would have him in my top35 (should of stayed with Wars)

Hes kinda right.

Even myself, around 2019 or 2021, Id prob have considered him for top 15.

Now I got him at the back end of the top 25 tbh.

scrawny bitch


not a fan of durscrawny bandwagoning ass

[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents;14903179]KD was never considered a top 10 player. Nick Wright is talking completely out his ass on this one :lol[/QUOTE]

Yes he was, I remember that quite well after 2018. With Steph winning his 4th and Jokic winning his title last year tho he's arguably been passed by both, or at least people are already projecting Jokic ahead of him which is fair at the moment.

[QUOTE=ImKobe;14903255]Yes he was, I remember that quite well after 2018. With Steph winning his 4th and Jokic winning his title last year tho he's arguably been passed by both, or at least people are already projecting Jokic ahead of him which is fair at the moment.[/QUOTE]

I've never seen anyone have KD as a top 10 player of all time. :oldlol:

ISH had him at #17 in 2021.

Realgm had him at #22 in 2020 & 2023.

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;14903258]I've never seen anyone have KD as a top 10 player of all time. :oldlol:

ISH had him at #17 in 2021.

Realgm had him at #22 in 2020 & 2023.[/QUOTE]

That's what, a combined 40 people on message boards? There was top 10 all-time talk with KD or at least people projecting him to finish in that range. Most of ISH hates KD (salty Bron stans) and he still placed 17th in a poll which tells you that he was indeed ranked/projected close or in that top 10 range at one point in time. Obviously he had the achilles injury which ruined the 3-Peat run but there definitely was top 10 talk in 2018/19 before that happened.

[QUOTE=ImKobe;14903262]That's what, a combined 40 people on message boards? There was top 10 all-time talk with KD or at least people projecting him to finish in that range. Most of ISH hates KD (salty Bron stans) and he still placed 17th in a poll which tells you that he was indeed ranked/projected close or in that top 10 range at one point in time. Obviously he had the achilles injury which ruined the 3-Peat run but there definitely was top 10 talk in 2018/19 before that happened.[/QUOTE]

[url]https://theathletic.com/3137873/2022/02/23/the-nba-75-the-top-75-nba-players-of-all-time-from-mj-and-lebron-to-lenny-wilkens/[/url]
[url]https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/33297498/the-nba-75th-anniversary-team-ranked-where-76-basketball-legends-check-our-list[/url]

Still can't find anything having him in the top 10.

[url]https://youtu.be/RK_OxG7UpM8[/url]

Gottlieb and Cowherd talking about Durant being a potential top 10 all-time player in 2019, ESPN had him like 14th all-time that year and they've always been biased against him.

There definitely was potential top 10 talk at the time. A lot of that on reddit, some on radio etc and from different sites that I came across at the time. Obviously KD gets more mixed reactions from people now as there's Lebron fans who hate him for joining GS and now the GS fans hate him as well for leaving. You can't deny that when he was in GS and they were for going for their 3rd that people started to rank him up there because of the trajectory he was on and how dominant he was in those 2 Finals. There was talk of him potentially passing Larry Bird as the #2 SF ever.

I'm saying the hype definitely was there prior to his achilles injury and prior to him leaving GS. Now yeah I don't think it's particularly close, but when he won B2B Finals MVPs over Steph with Steph having just 1 himself at the time? He was inching toward that 10 spot.

I’ve got him right up there with Bernard King.

[QUOTE=ImKobe;14903255]Yes he was, I remember that quite well after 2018. With Steph winning his 4th and Jokic winning his title last year tho he's arguably been passed by both, or at least people are already projecting Jokic ahead of him which is fair at the moment.[/QUOTE]
He absolutely wasn’t. If you could find me even 3 rankings that had KD top 10 I’d be astonished. And even if you did, I could find you 20 rankings that didn’t for every ranking that did.

Your best case scenario here is you’re arguing for an extremely fringe opinion. And claiming someone is potentially top 10 is NOT the same as them actually being ranked in the top 10, which is what Wright incorrectly claimed in the OP.

[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents;14903415]He absolutely wasn’t. If you could find me even 3 rankings that had KD top 10 I’d be astonished. And even if you did, I could find you 20 rankings that didn’t for every ranking that did.

Your best case scenario here is you’re arguing for an extremely fringe opinion. And claiming someone is potentially top 10 is NOT the same as them actually being ranked in the top 10, which is what Wright incorrectly claimed in the OP.[/QUOTE]

Argument was that "he was never considered top 10".. Some people definitely did try to make that argument when he won B2B and was on his way to a 3rd. Even ESPN had him 14th all-time at that point which wasn't far off and they were very much pro-Steph/Bron and anti-KD. Idk why you're acting like it's that big of a stretch that SOMEONE had him in their top 10 when he was coming off B2B dominant title runs with dominant series vs Lebron where he arguably outplayed him both times despite Bron's stat-padding in some of those blowout losses.

Highest I had him was around #12 or #13 since 2019. That's where I'd rank him today still

[QUOTE=ImKobe;14903426]Argument was that "he was never considered top 10".. Some people definitely did try to make that argument when he won B2B and was on his way to a 3rd. Even ESPN had him 14th all-time at that point which wasn't far off and they were very much pro-Steph/Bron and anti-KD. Idk why you're acting like it's that big of a stretch that SOMEONE had him in their top 10 when he was coming off B2B dominant title runs with dominant series vs Lebron where he arguably outplayed him both times despite Bron's stat-padding in some of those blowout losses.[/QUOTE]
Why are you arguing such weird semantics :lol I'm sure one person in the world had KD top 10 at one time, my point was the VAST majority did not, which is what I was pushing back on with what the OP/Nick Wright was claiming.

[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents;14903433]Why are you arguing such weird semantics :lol I'm sure one person in the world had KD top 10 at one time, my point was the VAST majority did not, which is what I was pushing back on with what the OP/Nick Wright was claiming.[/QUOTE]

Well you quoted me lol. The initial point was that some people said it which makes a whole lot of sense as he had B2B dominant title runs on the level of prime/peak Bird and Lebron. Top 10 wasn't a stretch at the time though most people (Lebron stans and the rest of the NBA) hated him because his team looked so dominant that they thought he'd win more and thus tried to invalidate him pre-emptively as it looked like he was about to get his 3rd in 2019 before the injury, he was on pace to have an even better title run in 2019 when he averaged 35/5/5 on 52/43/91 splits through his first 10 Playoff games.

Rankings all depend on how much you value players before the 3 point line.

A lot of fans under 25 simply don't give a **** about anything before MJ, even shitting on Bird and Magic.

So in that context, Durant certainly is a top 10 player of all time if we are only looking at the past 30 years or so.

Wherever you have Steph at, he's right below. It can be one spot below, it can be 4 spots below. He's still beneath Curry.

He should've stayed with Golden State. Probably would've had 5 rings.

[QUOTE=FultzNationRISE;14903178]I was never as high on him as other people.

I just dont value one dimensional scorers THAT highly, no matter how talented. I mean I think they can have a lot of value, but I dont just look at scoring as the singular measure of a player’s impact the way a lot of fans do.

KD was never above average as a playmaker, rebounder, defender, leader, or really anything but a jump shooter.

And thats not to say hes not a great player who brought alot of value to his teams in his prime. His shot making is valuable. Im saying that compared to other fans I never saw him as really anything close to becoming “top 10 all time.” But I also didnt give a shit how many mvps or championships he was gonna win or whatever, which a lot of people assumed he would and that affects how they rank him. I rank people based on how I see them, not irrelevant criteria based on the players circumstance.

Its called abstract thinking. Considering a concept when you dont have concrete instructions and formulae. Deciding how to analyze it through a fluid cloud of factors, not just desperately searching for an “a + b = c” formula that society or some authority told you is how to do it.

But I think most peoples brains arent actually wired to do that. I always used to think it was a choice people made for some strange reason. But I actually think the opposite now.[/QUOTE]

He definitely was an above average defender and rebounder at some point. And knew how to make simple high IQ passes. Playing with Westbrick for most of his prime is tilting your view. We saw Lebron with Westbrook. It was a disaster.

[QUOTE=tpols;14903508][B]He definitely was an above average defender and rebounder at some point.[/B] And knew how to make simple high IQ passes. Playing with Westbrick for most of his prime is tilting your view. We saw Lebron with Westbrook. It was a disaster.[/QUOTE]

When?

Tell me when and explain what he did as a defender that made an impression.

There's 30 starting small forwards in the league. So you're either in the top, middle, or bottom third. The middle third is average.

Was he ever as good as guys like Lebron, Kawhi, Giannis? Butler, Tatum? Artest, Aaron Gordon, Nic Batum?

If those guys are all better than him then he's not "above average." Those guys are above average. If you wanna give him credit for being decent, and not terrible, that's fine but describe it accurately. He's in the middle third at best, and that's average.

What sinks Durants ranking is his personality. Getting all butthurt over what the media or fans say killed his likability.

That and never playing with a true pass first point guard.

Durant should have found a way to go the clippers and team up with Chris Paul instead of Golden State. A prime KD and CP3 duo would have been a major problem for the league and both players would be regarded and ranked much higher.

I bet a KD for Blake Griffin sign and trade could have been made.

[QUOTE=ImKobe;14903426]Argument was that "he was never considered top 10".. Some people definitely did try to make that argument when he won B2B and was on his way to a 3rd. Even ESPN had him 14th all-time at that point which wasn't far off and they were very much pro-Steph/Bron and anti-KD. Idk why you're acting like it's that big of a stretch that SOMEONE had him in their top 10 when he was coming off B2B dominant title runs with dominant series vs Lebron where he arguably outplayed him both times despite Bron's stat-padding in some of those blowout losses.[/QUOTE]


14 is very far off.

I doubt you can find 1 list making that claim.

[QUOTE=tpols;14903508]He definitely was an above average defender and rebounder at some point. And knew how to make simple high IQ passes. Playing with Westbrick for most of his prime is tilting your view. We saw Lebron with Westbrook. It was a disaster.[/QUOTE]
If anything Westbrook has proven to be an underrated teammate. Durant got to play with a better version of Kyrie that Lebron won a ring with(and would have multiple if not for all time collusion) and couldn’t get out of the first round…in the east.

And are we seriously comparing Lakers Westbrook to Okc Westbrook? There’s kind of a big difference there, even bigger than the versions of Kyrie each played with.

He's in that very broad and difficult to rank group of guys like Dirk, Malone, Drexler, Wade, West and many others I forgot. Great players, great scorers, who just didn't have the elite specialized ability to make it to the absolute top. Basically the NBA from top 15 to top 30 is difficult to rank.

[QUOTE=ArbitraryWater;14903583]14 is very far off.

I doubt you can find 1 list making that claim.[/QUOTE]

[video=youtube;jmlxwgz16Gc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmlxwgz16Gc[/video]

Look this is the same thing we're dealing with Jokic right now. Where a player is today does not mean they are going to end up at that spot. At one point in time, when looking at SF's he was clearly #2 right behind Bird (I consider Lebron a PF). When he went to the Warriors he dropped behind Dr. J. Now after his terrible runs in Brooklyn and Phoenix I don't see myself ranking him ahead of Rick Barry and Elgin Baylor.

For a period of time he was the second best player in the league...Curry has overtaken him. This season Giannis and Jokic have moved past him and if I'm being honest...I think CPIII deserves to be ranked higher all-time now. If his career is a huge disaster I don't see him falling out the top ten at SF but he's no longer a top 30 player...and he's likely going to finish his career in the top 40.

I think he's in the #15-20 range. He just hasn't done enough to be top 10 nor do I think he has a convincing case for a top 10 peak.

[QUOTE=John8204;14903601]Look this is the same thing we're dealing with Jokic right now. Where a player is today does not mean they are going to end up at that spot. At one point in time, when looking at SF's he was clearly #2 right behind Bird (I consider Lebron a PF). When he went to the Warriors he dropped behind Dr. J. Now after his terrible runs in Brooklyn and Phoenix I don't see myself ranking him ahead of Rick Barry and Elgin Baylor.

For a period of time he was the second best player in the league...Curry has overtaken him. This season Giannis and Jokic have moved past him and if I'm being honest...I think CPIII deserves to be ranked higher all-time now. If his career is a huge disaster I don't see him falling out the top ten at SF but he's no longer a top 30 player...and he's likely going to finish his career in the top 40.[/QUOTE]

Yeah at some point the story becomes as important as the stats, que Isaiah Thomas vs John Stockton and Durant just doesn't have a good story, much like Kyrie. Maybe Kyrie can change his story, but Durant's seem done and I think he'll be remembered as just another very talented NBA player, but with no real career defining moment, except dropping the dagger in Lebron's face.

[QUOTE=j3lademaster;14903586]If anything Westbrook has proven to be an underrated teammate. Durant got to play with a better version of Kyrie that Lebron won a ring with(and would have multiple if not for all time collusion) and couldn’t get out of the first round…in the east.

And are we seriously comparing Lakers Westbrook to Okc Westbrook? There’s kind of a big difference there, even bigger than the versions of Kyrie each played with.[/QUOTE]

Kyrie was out almost every year with Durant. He was out all 2019 and 2020 and got hurt vs the Bucks in 2021. With LeBron when he won a ring kyrie played every playoff game and went off in the biggest ones. That's nonsense what you said. But the point is Durant was a great overall player... he was an MVP talent level.

[QUOTE=tpols;14903606]Kyrie was out almost every year with Durant. He was out all 2019 and 2020 and got hurt vs the Bucks in 2021. With LeBron when he won a ring kyrie played every playoff game and went off in the biggest ones. That's nonsense what you said. But the point is Durant was a great overall player... he was an MVP talent level.[/QUOTE]Nonsense what I said? You just used okc Westbrook vs Lakers Westbrook to compare Lebron and Durant. Not to mention you just compared 38 year old Lebron to 27 year old Durant.

[QUOTE=90sgoat;14903604]Yeah at some point the story becomes as important as the stats, que Isaiah Thomas vs John Stockton and Durant just doesn't have a good story, much like Kyrie. Maybe Kyrie can change his story, but Durant's seem done and I think he'll be remembered as just another very talented NBA player, but with no real career defining moment, except dropping the dagger in Lebron's face.[/QUOTE]

It's not just the story but the entire career...people have Isiah over Stockton, I have Stockton over Isiah. Isiah had a much better peak but Stockton was just consistently competing. Being productive and competitive for 19 seasons is more impressive than running after Hall of Fame players and then failing to win with them.

He's still a top 76 player and that means a lot but their was a time when he was clearly a top 25 guy and that's gone and never going to come back for him.

[QUOTE=John8204;14903612]It's not just the story but the entire career...people have Isiah over Stockton, I have Stockton over Isiah. Isiah had a much better peak but Stockton was just consistently competing. Being productive and competitive for 19 seasons is more impressive than running after Hall of Fame players and then failing to win with them.

He's still a top 76 player and that means a lot but their was a time when he was clearly a top 25 guy and that's gone and never going to come back for him.[/QUOTE]

That's true.

His Brooklyn move really destroyed his career more than Warriors honestly. He hasn't been relevant since Warriors.

If the Dubs didnt get hurt in 2019, they would have won the chip easily. A dominant three-peat would have made them very difficult not to consider as the GOAT NBA team ever. I mean, some people say it already with two rings. So Kevin Durant would have been the best player on the best team of all-time. In a lot of people's minds.

It would be hard not to consider the best player on the best team ever a top 10 player. Now obviously they didnt three-peat but we all know they would have without breaking a sweat if healthy so it's not a big what if.

[QUOTE=Nowoco;14903619]If the Dubs didnt get hurt in 2019, they would have won the chip easily. A dominant three-peat would have made them very difficult not to consider as the GOAT NBA team ever. I mean, some people say it already with two rings. [B]So Kevin Durant would have been the best player on the best team of all-time. In a lot of people's minds.[/B]

It would be hard not to consider the best player on the best team ever a top 10 player. Now obviously they didnt three-peat but we all know they would have without breaking a sweat if healthy so it's not a big what if.[/QUOTE]
That's pure conjecture, Curry would get at minimum 50/50 consideration for that, probably even more considering what the Warriors accomplished before KD got there and their insane record when Curry played and KD didn't.

And if things play out the same way, with KD leaving and the Warriors winning another championship without him, there's no chance what you said would be true.