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with Michael Cooper induction and Gobert's basic sanctification as a Hall of Famer we can now look at other criteria.
-2X All Star
- Gold Medalist
- NBA Champion (could get a second)
- KAJ award winner
- 3 time Tywman-Stokes award winner
- 6 time Defense All-NBA
They are going to have Holiday on Kyrie or Luka...he might be the pivotal player in this series and he's pushed his team The Celtics over the hump to get himself a second ring.
People should wait to react to something until after that thing happens. Hope he makes the Hall and makes Irving hate basketball for the next few weeks but it hasn't happened yet.
[QUOTE=Real Men Wear Green;14918410]People should wait to react to something until after that thing happens. Hope he makes the Hall and makes Irving hate basketball for the next few weeks but it hasn't happened yet.[/QUOTE]
I think it's worth discussing because 5 of these Celtics are HOF ranked and they are close together
[url]https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/hof_prob.html[/url]
12 - Kyrie
21 - Luka
25 - Tatum
27 - Horford
43 - Holiday
47 - Brown
77 - Porzingus
Mo Cheeks as a Hall is was pushing it.
Cooper has 5 titles and a DPOY though so that's pretty different.
[QUOTE=iamgine;14918560]Cooper has 5 titles and a DPOY though so that's pretty different.[/QUOTE]
Cooper also wasn't a full time starter.
[QUOTE=L.Kizzle;14918562]Cooper also wasn't a full time starter.[/QUOTE]
That's also different
[QUOTE=iamgine;14918564]That's also different[/QUOTE]
Right, Michael Cooper never locked down anyone before.
[QUOTE=iamgine;14918560]Cooper has 5 titles and a DPOY though so that's pretty different.[/QUOTE]
Holiday has 3 individual awards 2 Teammate of the year (Twyman-Stokes) and (KAJ award)
Cooper also didn't make the Olympic team...Holiday did
[QUOTE=John8204;14918953]Holiday has 3 individual awards 2 Teammate of the year (Twyman-Stokes) and (KAJ award)
Cooper also didn't make the Olympic team...Holiday did[/QUOTE]
As I said...different. Holiday may/may not make it.
Incredible game and yet nobody wants to talk about this dude..he's making a FMVP right now.
[QUOTE=John8204;14918409]with Michael Cooper induction and Gobert's basic sanctification as a Hall of Famer we can now look at other criteria.
-2X All Star
- Gold Medalist
- NBA Champion (could get a second)
- KAJ award winner
- 3 time Tywman-Stokes award winner
- 6 time Defense All-NBA
They are going to have Holiday on Kyrie or Luka...he might be the pivotal player in this series and he's pushed his team The Celtics over the hump to get himself a second ring.[/QUOTE]
he wins another chip and possibly becomes MVP of finals ...
HOF like Billups.
He’s a consistent, nice player, but I don’t think the case is as compelling as you think.
He just had a game where he scored 26 on like 80% shooting and locked kyrie up. He's seriously underrated. I see him as a Joe dumars level talent... perhaps better on defense.
If you think about it guys like Dame and Harden and Westbrook were always considered way better but I feel like kyrie would light them up. And Dame isn't gonna do better than 26 on 80% shooting.
I’ve thought he’s always been very underrated. Him playing on quite a few crappy teams is a big culprit. He always seemed like a guy who would be an amazing piece for a title contender. Good for him that he’s been able to finally have a shot with some great squads.
I hate to rain on Jrue's parade, as I've always have felt he was underrated and would like to see him win FMVP over anybody else on Boston. But I have to keep it real, imo he gets a HUGE pass for his absolutely atrocious playoff shooting while on Milwaukee. I understand he contributes in other ways, most notably defensively, and I could forgive him for being even just inefficient, but his efficiency was so horrendous, it's simply impossible to ignore.
2021 vs. Brooklyn: 15 points on 17 shots and 43%TS
2021 vs. Phoenix: 17 points on 18 shots and 44%TS
2022 vs. Boston: 21 points on 22 shots and 45%TS
2023 vs. Miami: 18 points on 17 shots and 49%TS
Y'all can admit that's probably even worse than you remembered :lol I do feel like it's a legitimate knock on him that when he was put into a key role in the playoffs, against the best competition, his scoring/efficiency was flat out terrible.
-2X All Star
[B]- 2X Gold Medalist
- 2X NBA Champion (could get a second)[/B]
- KAJ award winner
- 3 time Tywman-Stokes award winner
- 6 time Defense All-NBA
I believe the only player with multiple gold who isn't getting in the Hall is Deron Williams
With two gold medals and two Championships I would say he's locked his case in. He was basically a starter for Team USA and had an undeniably major impact for both Team USA and the Celtics. He may not make another All-Star game and his individual awards aren't on a level we normally expect with a HoF player but his impact on winning is huge. And don't underrate that gold medal, even though we take them for granted in America you could almost view being selected for Team USA as being on par with an All-NBA selection and he played well under some pressure, every game wasn't a blowout and he made some important plays. I wouldn't say they don't win without him but he was still important.
I dont think he should be in the hall of fame. He's in the hall of very good.
However there are other NBA players in the hall of fame that probably shouldn't have made it.
One interesting tidbit is Jrue Holiday is actually the all-time leader in blocks for a PG, which is surprising given that he isn't an athletic freak like Russell Westbrook.
Holiday (and White) aren't Westbrook-level athletic but they are very athletic and focused harder on defense than Westbrook did because Westbrook was more driven to be a superstar, a status you get from offense. If Westbrook had their focus on defense he would have blocked some shots.
[QUOTE=Real Men Wear Green;14935809]With two gold medals and two Championships I would say he's locked his case in. He was basically a starter for Team USA and had an undeniably major impact for both Team USA and the Celtics. He may not make another All-Star game and his individual awards aren't on a level we normally expect with a HoF player but his impact on winning is huge. And don't underrate that gold medal, even though we take them for granted in America you could almost view being selected for Team USA as being on par with an All-NBA selection and he played well under some pressure, every game wasn't a blowout and he made some important plays. I wouldn't say they don't win without him but he was still important.[/QUOTE]
The guy he's starting to remind me of, who had to wait to get in, but another Celtic, is Dennis Johnson. Lock down defender for multiple teams who could glue together on offense between a ton of different types of players, and be the primary ball handler while still playing off the ball. Can knock down open looks. It feels like guys like this don't get in the HoF as much as they used to. Winning players who aren't necessarily focul points, but I think Holiday gets in. Hopefully he's not dead by the time he gets in like DJ.
It's a shame that Jrue will likely get in because of team accomplishments.
On an individual level, he wasn't a top 2 contributor on either championship run and wasn't a top 3 contributor on either Olympic gold run. On an NBA level, he's leagues behind guys who were legit MVP candidates like Kemp.
But, yes, evidence does lean in his favor that he'll eventually get in. Maybe not a first ballot.
Michael Cooper who was a bench player his entire career just got in, the basketball hall of Fame has always been a joke compared to the other major American sports. Making it isn't some sort of great accomplishment.
[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;14935823]Michael Cooper who was a bench player his entire career just got in, the basketball hall of Fame has always been a joke compared to the other major American sports. Making it isn't some sort of great accomplishment.[/QUOTE]
I don't think it's a joke to discuss the bottom guys... of the three Hall of Fames this is the best type of discussion. In baseball it's basically an exercise in how can we keep you out. In Football everybody gets in that belongs but it just seems to happen at the most random times.
[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;14935823]Michael Cooper who was a bench player his entire career just got in, the basketball hall of Fame has always been a joke compared to the other major American sports. Making it isn't some sort of great accomplishment.[/QUOTE]
Too bad it won't avoid lebron haters from saying that he's had a lot of hof/eligible hof teammates throughout his career.
He's now won the KAJ Social Justice Award and the Joe Dumar's Sportsmanship Award
[QUOTE=John8204;15003866]He's now won the KAJ Social Justice Award and the Joe Dumar's Sportsmanship Award[/QUOTE]
You think that factors in heavily when determining if he is a Hall of Famer? A lot of these awards you list seems like a reach. When discussing who is/isn’t worthy. Or who looks like they will get in based on x, y and z? I rarely ever see these awards you mentioned.
[QUOTE=GOBB;15003878]You think that factors in heavily when determining if he is a Hall of Famer? A lot of these awards you list seems like a reach. When discussing who is/isn’t worthy. Or who looks like they will get in based on x, y and z? I rarely ever see these awards you mentioned.[/QUOTE]
I think if you are on the Olympic team you should be a Hall of Famer or in the discussion. I think the hall is moving away from the counting stats and looking more towards off-ball non-stat stuff. I think Holiday, Iggy, Robert Horry are guys that determine if your team is going to be a champion or not.
Social Justice/Sportsmanship awards won't make a hill of beans difference. He already has a strong case though and the Celtics still could make that case even stronger this year.
Coach gets arrested Holiday leads his team to victories over The Warriors, Nuggets, and Thunder. If this dude carries the Trailblazers to the playoffs they are going to make movies about this guy.
They were 3 games out of play in last year. Lets not get carried away. :rolleyes:
Buying out the bum ayton adds more wins than anything
[QUOTE=John8204;15041374]Coach gets arrested Holiday leads his team to victories over The Warriors, Nuggets, and Thunder. If this dude carries the Trailblazers to the playoffs they are going to make movies about this guy.[/QUOTE]
Doubt he's their best player but was surprised to learn he's currently averaging 16.7 points and 8 assists, and if he's still defending at a high level that's an excellent season. Not sure he can give that kind of production for 70+ games but at 35 he Coto is still have a little gas in the tank. Unfortunately that's not quite going to get him on the allstar game and Portland isn't going to win enough to add to his HoF argument on that front but he's likely done enough to get in regardless of how this season goes.
Dead ass I would take Jrue on my team over guys like Westbrook or Iverson. And they're easy HOFers.
Everywhere Jrue goes the team improves and goes further. Where we've seen the aforementioned Trojan horses wreck teams from inside out.
Shit... look at the Nuggets with Chauncey Billups vs AI. They had their best playoff run ever with Billups in his place but fans would scoff at you for taking Chauncey over Iverson. Same thing with westbrick nuggets were better off with Bruce Brown as 6th man when they won the title. And he single handedly torpedoed the Lakers. A lot of fans get blinded by the raw numbers and can't really identify true impact.
[QUOTE=tpols;15041389]Dead ass I would take Jrue on my team over guys like Westbrook or Iverson. And they're easy HOFers.
Everywhere Jrue goes the team improves and goes further. Where we've seen the aforementioned Trojan horses wreck teams from inside out.
Shit... look at the Nuggets with Chauncey Billups vs AI. They had their best playoff run ever with Billups in his place but fans would scoff at you for taking Chauncey over Iverson. Same thing with westbrick nuggets were better off with Bruce Brown as 6th man when they won the title. And he single handedly torpedoed the Lakers. A lot of fans get blinded by the raw numbers and can't really identify true impact.[/QUOTE]
Sounds like trolls i know :cheers:
Jrue has always been low key most underrated player in the league.
Except by his teammates. I think he’s won the best teammate award multiple times. I don’t even know how serious of an accolade that is tbh. But he’s the real deal. Before he got shipped to Boston I was in espn trade machine trying to make deals work for him to come to the Warriors :lol
Was thinking Jrue / Steph would be a really nice backcourt.