HISTORICAL RECORD: Antaun Jamison was considered better than Pau in 2008

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[Indent][U]2008[/U]

JAMISON........ #14 for MVP........ 2x all-star
PAU................. nothing............. 1x all-star[/indent]


Jamison was considered better than Pau and Zydrunas wasn't far behind either.. If Kobe had won with Jamison, Zydrunas and Mo like he did with Pau, then they would be elevated historically like Pau was - Jamison would've started making All-NBA like Pau did... On the flipside, if Pau never joined Kobe, then he would be viewed historically like Jamison and not too far ahead of Zydrunas.

But unfortunately, Lebron wasn't good enough to elevate 1x all-stars like MJ and Kobe did.. This is due to skillset - Lebron's high-scoring ball-dominance imposes spot-up roles that prevents development and chemistry, while Kobe's expert jumpshooting skill and goat scoring diversity fit with everyone and allowed greater strategy/coaching - he got the MOST out of everyone, while Lebron routinely reduces guys and needs more help.

The remarkable thing is that Lebron COULD HAVE WON in cleveland the first time... He was on pace with an organic juggernaut and league favorite by Year 7 just like Jokic, Curry and MJ... The difference is that he gave up on learning to win with normal teams of 1 franchise player and opted for super-teams of 3 franchise players - he gave up on learning the chemistry required to win with what he had and opted for talent-based winning (all-star team strategy).. Accordingly, he never learned how to win (chemistry) and only learned how to team-up (talent-based winning).. It's a shame because there was a 1-star organic chip up for grabs in 2011 that Dirk grabbed, but the Cavs would've had the long-standing chemistry and reputed defense to easily DESTROY the Mavs.

I hope things get better for you bro.

[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents;14941891]I hope things get better for you bro.[/QUOTE]


You can't come up with a better deflection by now? Telling

[QUOTE=3ba11;14941925]You can't come up with a better deflection by now? Telling[/QUOTE]
People just feel sorry for you at this point because you clearly need help and refuse to get it.

He didn't really have a high hold time during his time with Miami though.

In 14 he was behind Curry by a lot. Kobe also had more hold time. Tony Parker had considerably more hold time and he played for the best ball moving offense of that era.

Please explain.

[QUOTE=Carbine;14941929]He didn't really have a high hold time during his time with Miami though.

In 14 he was behind Curry by a lot. Kobe also had more hold time. Tony Parker had considerably more hold time and he played for the best ball moving offense of that era.

Please explain.[/QUOTE]


Throw out 2014 Kobe because that's when he got hurt and only played 6 games.

Otherwise, Lebron is the only non-point guard in the top 30, so his presence produces 2-point guard lineups with himself and Mario Chalmers, and on previous teams it was Mo Williams, Kyrie, Rondo or Westbrook - these 2 point guard lineups are abnormally ball-dominant with less ball movement.. These 2 point guard lineups ultimately give teammates less hold-time and assists than they get in traditional 1 point guard lineups - lower assists from teammates means low TEAM assists and a brand that can't compete effectively on the championship level (lottery record on the championship level).. The common thread in all of Lebron's playoff losses for the last 10 years is massive deficits in team assists

Op can't even spell his first name right. :facepalm

[QUOTE=Axe;14941958]Op can't even spell his first name right. :facepalm[/QUOTE]
Still not as embarrassing as Ingraham.

He got 1 5th place vote :facepalm

Literally 1 journalist gave him a 5th place vote. That's it. Could have been his friend.

To be fair, The Wizards were +14 points per/100 when Jamison played vs. when he sat (Which is MVP level impact...usually). They were extremely f-ing bad when Nick Young and Andray Blatche played, which made Jamison look better.

Thanks for letting us know, OP. Anything else?

What was the historical record for Dwight before joining Kobe? Multiple DPOYs and 5 straight seasons voted top 5 for MVP.

Dwight was the true MVP in 2011, and only 27 when he joined Kobe 2 years later, unlike Jamison who was 33 when he joined LeBron, 2 years after the year you referenced.

If Kobe fits with everyone, why were the 2013 Lakers such a disaster?

Kobe colluded straight out of high school - he refused to be drafted to any other team except the Lakers who were already a competitive team and ready to sign Shaq...

So Kobe colluded from the jump and was instantly in a perfect position, being carried by peak Shaq and a championship coach, with a highly decorated and accomplished franchise.

Lebron was drafted to the worst franchise in professional sports, coming off a putrid 17 win season. Within 4 years, with zero all-nba talent, LeBron had them in the NBA Finals at age 22.

So while Kobe was getting carried by peak Shaq early in his career, LeBron was hard-carrying the worst team in the league by himself.


And let's not forget Kobe ran Shaq out of town after sabotaging the insanely stacked 04 Lakers. (22ppg on 38% in the finals), which then turned the Lakers into a perennial lottery squad. He then demanded he be traded since he couldn't win without stacked talent(well documented).. they then pulled a rabbit out of the hat trading for Pau and building the most stacked team by far, by 09

In 2013, he once again colluded with 2 former MVPs in Dwight and Nash, and once again failed miserably like he did in 04.


So Kobe NEVER won without the most talent - and was never burdened with carrying a franchise on his back like LeBron... and also demanded to be traded when the going got hard, and failed miserably with 2 former MVPs on 2 separate occasions.

That's the historical record.

[QUOTE=AlternativeAcc.;14942044]Kobe colluded straight out of high school - he refused to be drafted to any other team except the Lakers who were already a competitive team and ready to sign Shaq...

So Kobe colluded from the jump and was instantly in a perfect position, being carried by peak Shaq and a championship coach, with a highly decorated and accomplished franchise.

Lebron was drafted to the worst franchise in professional sports, coming off a putrid 17 win season. Within 4 years, with zero all-nba talent, LeBron had them in the NBA Finals at age 22.

So while Kobe was getting carried by peak Shaq early in his career, LeBron was hard-carrying the worst team in the league by himself.


And let's not forget Kobe ran Shaq out of town after sabotaging the insanely stacked 04 Lakers. (22ppg on 38% in the finals), which then turned the Lakers into a perennial lottery squad. He then demanded he be traded since he couldn't win without stacked talent(well documented).. they then pulled a rabbit out of the hat trading for Pau and building the most stacked team by far, by 09

In 2013, he once again colluded with 2 former MVPs in Dwight and Nash, and once again failed miserably like he did in 04.


So Kobe NEVER won without the most talent - and was never burdened with carrying a franchise on his back like LeBron... and also demanded to be traded when the going got hard, and failed miserably with 2 former MVPs on 2 separate occasions.

That's the historical record.[/QUOTE]



It is pretty rare for me to agree with this guy but he punk'd 3ball here, granted that is a low bar to clear.

[QUOTE=tontoz;14942050]It is pretty rare for me to agree with this guy but he punk'd 3ball here, granted that is a low bar to clear.[/QUOTE]
Think about how bad of a poster you have to be to get punked by alternativeaccount.

Yeesh. 3ball doesn’t seem like a bad fella tho I hope he gets some help.

[QUOTE=RRR3;14942085]Think about how bad of a poster you have to be to get punked by alternativeaccount.

Yeesh. 3ball doesn’t seem like a bad fella tho I hope he gets some help.[/QUOTE]

:lol

I just can't understand being so obsessed about this. MJ was my favorite player ever but if someone says LeBron or Kareem was better I couldn't care less.

Jamison averaged 23/10/2 in the playoffs against Cleveland from '06-'08 across 3 playoff series.

And he peaked at 32/10 series average against them. There's a reason Cleveland went after him right afterwards. The dude could ball and was a top prospect out of UNC in the draft.

[QUOTE=tpols;14942110]Jamison averaged 24/10/2 in the playoffs against Cleveland from '06-'08 across 3 playoff series.

And he peaked at 32/10 series average against them. There's a reason Cleveland went after him right afterwards. The dude could ball and was a top prospect out of UNC in the draft.[/QUOTE]
Bro, you're an embarrassment :lol

[video=youtube;-LvjGamg2YE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LvjGamg2YE[/video]

What did I say that wasn't true?

Guy was a factual All Star talent that never gets talked about. You're mad because it's true, but it is what it is.

3pols

the extent lebron stans go to discredit his teammates is wild lol

Mo Williams in the playoffs put up better stats than klay in the 2015 finals.

Klay is some god though while mo is supposed to be some bum

Then they talk about klay throwing up big games in regular season….

[IMG]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0s5fR7o9SSs[/IMG]

I can see why people shit on Mo. He was a one hit wonder type. Jamison was actually good but never gets mentioned. I don't think he was better than Pau... but he was maybe like... 10% worse.

It's pretty disingenuous of the OP to include Big Z in the group of Mo and Jamison too.

Big Z was an absolute shell of himself in LeBron's final season in Cleveland. In fact, he barely played in the playoffs averaging a staggering 2ppg.

He wasn't part of any meaningful supporting cast for Lebron that year.

[QUOTE=Carbine;14942136]It's pretty disingenuous of the OP to include Big Z in the group of Mo and Jamison too.

Big Z was an absolute shell of himself in LeBron's final season in Cleveland. In fact, he barely played in the playoffs averaging a staggering 2ppg.

He wasn't part of any meaningful supporting cast for Lebron that year.[/QUOTE]
Yeah but LeBron really needed those 1.7 PPG

andrew bynum averaged around 4.5 ppg in his Finals appearances and we always get his name brought up.

[QUOTE=warriorfan;14942130]the extent lebron stans go to discredit his teammates is wild lol

Mo Williams in the playoffs put up better stats than klay in the 2015 finals.

Klay is some god though while mo is supposed to be some bum

Then they talk about klay throwing up big games in regular season….

[IMG]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0s5fR7o9SSs[/IMG][/QUOTE]
Stfu. No klay, no play.

[QUOTE=warriorfan;14942179]andrew bynum averaged around 4.5 ppg in his Finals appearances and we always get his name brought up.[/QUOTE]
No one takes your opinions seriously :(

Antawn doesnt get mentioned because his best years were on garbage ass teams. Dude had his whole career to throw up monster numbers without obligation for post-season success. He is a Monta Ellis in a different position which happens to make him more efficient.

[QUOTE=rawimpact;14942231]Antawn doesnt get mentioned because his best years were on garbage ass teams. Dude had his whole career to throw up monster numbers without obligation for post-season success. He is a Monta Ellis in a different position which happens to make him more efficient.[/QUOTE]


Wizards Jamison had just as much playoff success and production as Memphis Pau. Actually more since his team won a few games. Pau went 0-12 three first round sweeps. But he did play in the tougher conference so we can throw him a bone there. Either way they literally had the same playoff results as one another in their primes before Gasol joined Kobe.

[QUOTE=tpols;14942239]Wizards Jamison had just as much playoff success and production as Memphis Pau. Actually more since his team won a few games. Pau went 0-12 three first round sweeps. But he sid play in the tougher conference so we can throw him a bone there. Either way they literally had the same playoff results as one another in their primes before Gasol joined Kobe.[/QUOTE]

Yeah.. but that's where Antawns post-season success ends and Pau's begins. The west was an absolute bloodbath top-down during that era.

[QUOTE=rawimpact;14942240]Yeah.. but that's where Antawns post-season success ends and Pau's begins. The west was an absolute bloodbath top-down during that era.[/QUOTE]

Paus playoff success only began when he joined Kobe and one of the top seeded Laker teams in the mid 2008 season.

If Pau was on the Wizards he'd fare no better than Jamison did. Losing to Lebron and Cleveland every year.

just came to see what tpols said

[QUOTE=tpols;14942243]Paus playoff success only began when he joined Kobe and one of the top seeded Laker teams in the mid 2008 season.

If Pau was on the Wizards he'd fare no better than Jamison did. Losing to Lebron and Cleveland every year.[/QUOTE]

So what? You're playing hypotheticals whereas im telling you what actually occurred.

The reason why Antawn isn't mentioned is because he had no real post-season success. His prime was spent with someone who stole his spotlight, arenas... often times in negative ways.

[QUOTE=tpols;14942243]Paus playoff success only began when he joined Kobe and one of the top seeded Laker teams in the mid 2008 season.

If Pau was on the Wizards he'd fare no better than Jamison did. Losing to Lebron and Cleveland every year.[/QUOTE]

I mean sure. Just because the teams achieved similar results doesn't make them similar players though.

Jamison was a good play-finisher and could score adequately from 3 levels, but he offered nothing as a playmaker or on defense. He was a guy who'd put up decent numbers on a bad team but on a good one his role was best as a 6th man. Hence why the Mavericks had him in that spot.

Pau was on a different tier as a player.

[QUOTE=tpols;14942243]Paus playoff success only began when he joined Kobe and one of the top seeded Laker teams in the mid 2008 season.

If Pau was on the Wizards he'd fare no better than Jamison did. Losing to Lebron and Cleveland every year.[/QUOTE]

Kobe didn't get out of the first round without Shaq until Pau arrived.

Dbl post cause the site sucks

[QUOTE=Hey Yo;14942258]Dbl post cause the site sucks[/QUOTE]

That been happening to me a lot. When it starts spinning when i try to post i will hit go advanced. That will show me if my post already went through without losing what i wrote or creating a new post.

[QUOTE=Axe;14941958]Op can't even spell his first name right. :facepalm[/QUOTE]
Neither could Antawn’s parent(s)