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[SIZE=5]Hakeem scared to jump and visibly COWERED every time[/SIZE]:
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[SIZE=5]MJ had many tip dunks over Hakeem[/SIZE]
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[size=3]Anyone that doesn't think Luka would do this to Hakeem doesn't know basketball:[/size]
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[SIZE=3]Since rim-protecting bigs can be brought away from the rim and nullified, they're often obsolete in today's format,.. With bigs out of the equation, MJ is the greatest defender ever by virtue of transferring over eras better.
Btw, there's a drop-step poster on Hakeem from 89' or 90' that I can't find but it's the coldest one yet.. Will post when I come across it[/SIZE]
Hakeem foot quickness was that of someone 6'5
Rudy has the foot quickness of a 40 year old Tim Duncan.
Quite a difference. I'm sure Luka would score on Hakeem, it's an offensive game afterall. But he wouldn't embarrass Hakeem.
[QUOTE=Carbine;14944488]Hakeem foot quickness was that of someone 6'5
Rudy has the foot quickness of a 40 year old Tim Duncan.
Quite a difference. I'm sure Luka would score on Hakeem, it's an offensive game afterall. But he wouldn't embarrass Hakeem.[/QUOTE]
Yes and the reduction of Hakeem from being away from the rim and getting embarrassed by Luka, Lillard, MJ, Kobe, McGrady, Lebron and company would significantly reduce Hakeem's impact in the current era vs prior eras... this is intuitive.. accordingly, with bigs out of the "best defender ever" argument, that leaves MJ as the best candidate for goat defender.
Not at all. It wouldn't surprise me if he was a Draymond Green type switch defender. Considering Draymond is the best defender of this era in my opinion, Hakeem would still be in the running for best defender.
[QUOTE=Carbine;14944488]Hakeem foot quickness was that of someone 6'5
Rudy has the foot quickness of a 40 year old Tim Duncan.
Quite a difference. I'm sure Luka would score on Hakeem, it's an offensive game afterall. But he wouldn't embarrass Hakeem.[/QUOTE]
Actual footage of Jordan attempting a game winner over Hakeem
[IMG]https://i.ibb.co/fC2Mn2S/IMG-9976.gif[/IMG]
[QUOTE=Kblaze8855;14944492]Actual footage of Jordan attempting a game winner over Hakeem
[IMG]https://i.ibb.co/fC2Mn2S/IMG-9976.gif[/IMG][/QUOTE]
anything to support the fraud eh?...:facepalm:... MJ didn't dribble on that last-second catch-and-shoot (below), so not comparable to defending live-dribbling by Luka on the perimeter.. Again, a shameful attempt by you to support the fraud, smh.. caught red-handed.. now if you show footage of Hakeem defending well on the perimeter against live-dribbling, then you might have something - but I could've swore that I remember famous footage of him flailing around out there against Rod Strickland or something but I haven't found it yet.
[img]https://i.makeagif.com/media/9-20-2024/JQhUZa.gif[/img]
Yeah he was freaky. It wouldn't surprise me at all if he were just a 6'10 or whatever he was version of Draymond on defense. That's like a 5x DPOY in today's league.
Like Rudy if you added an elite ability to switch into guards.
[QUOTE=Carbine;14944497]Yeah he was freaky. It wouldn't surprise me at all if he were just a 6'10 or whatever he was version of Draymond on defense. That's like a 5x DPOY in today's league.
Like Rudy if you added an elite ability to switch into guards.[/QUOTE]
You obviously never played, so you have no clue what you're talking about.. Hakeem never guarded anyone on the perimeter but it would be considered a big mismatch like anyone else if he ever did... Even guys like KG and AD are considered at a disadvantage on the perimeter against pretty much anyone, let alone a bigger and less springier body-type like Hakeem... He's like molasses on the perimeter tbh
Hakeem’s 2 titles were the most impressive of the 1990’s.
[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents;14944502]Hakeem’s 2 titles were the most impressive of the 1990’s.[/QUOTE]
[SIZE=3]hakeem's THIRD option did this:[/SIZE]
[indent][U]FINALS[/U]
95' Horry...... 19.0 gamescore... 18/10/4/3/2 on 57 TS
92' Pippen.... 18.1 gamescore.... 21/8/7/2/1 on 56 TS
91' Pippen.... 17.5 gamescore.... 21/9/7/2/1 on 53 TS
93' Pippen.... 15.6 gamescore.... 20/9/8/2/1 on 46 TS
97' Pippen.... 15.1 gamescore.... 20/8/3/2/2 on 54 TS
96' Pippen.... 13.4 gamescore.... 16/7/5/2/1 on 43 TS
98' Pippen.... 13.0 gamescore.... 16/8/5/2/1 on 50 TS[/indent]
So no
And based on PER, WS/48, VORP and BPM, the gap between Hakeem and his 2nd option in 1994 was much smaller than the gap between MJ and his 2nd option in 1993 Playoffs and Finals...
The 94' Rockets had rich man's version of all the Bulls' players... Kenny Smith, Maxwell and Thorpe were Jeff Bezos' version of Paxson, BJ and Horace, while Sam Cassell and Horry had equal or greater ceiling on the offensive end as Pippen.. They had a better roster top to bottom, which is why Hakeem didn't have to produce like MJ to win.
[QUOTE=Kblaze8855;14944492]Actual footage of Jordan attempting a game winner over Hakeem
[IMG]https://i.ibb.co/fC2Mn2S/IMG-9976.gif[/IMG][/QUOTE]
:oldlol:
[IMG]https://i.makeagif.com/media/6-25-2015/_CiUgr.gif[/IMG]
I feel like we’ve in live time just been through the process of a dude who has just jerked off.
This is odd.
[QUOTE=3ba11;14944503][SIZE=3]hakeem's THIRD option did this:[/SIZE]
[indent][U]FINALS[/U]
95' Horry...... 19.0 gamescore... 18/10/4/3/2 on 57 TS
92' Pippen.... 18.1 gamescore.... 21/8/7/2/1 on 56 TS
91' Pippen.... 17.5 gamescore.... 21/9/7/2/1 on 53 TS
93' Pippen.... 15.6 gamescore.... 20/9/8/2/1 on 46 TS
97' Pippen.... 15.1 gamescore.... 20/8/3/2/2 on 54 TS
96' Pippen.... 13.4 gamescore.... 16/7/5/2/1 on 43 TS
98' Pippen.... 13.0 gamescore.... 16/8/5/2/1 on 50 TS[/indent]
So no
And based on PER, WS/48, VORP and BPM, the gap between Hakeem and his 2nd option in 1994 was much smaller than the gap between MJ and his 2nd option in 1993 Playoffs and Finals...
The 94' Rockets had rich man's version of all the Bulls' players... Kenny Smith, Maxwell and Thorpe were Jeff Bezos' version of Paxson, BJ and Horace, while Sam Cassell and Horry had equal or greater ceiling on the offensive end as Pippen.. They had a better roster top to bottom, which is why Hakeem didn't have to produce like MJ to win.[/QUOTE]
Dude Hakeem average 15 more PPG than his second option in 1994 while also leading the team in rebounds, blocks, steals and assists for the entire playoffs.
Jordan out produced his #2 guy by the same 15PPG during championship runs but he did not have to carry the burden of also being the best in every other category like 1994 Hakeem.
..
Robinson walking right around Hakeem like he isn't even there lol.. .:oldlol:
[img]https://i.makeagif.com/media/9-20-2024/OKUejU.gif[/img]
[IMG]https://i.makeagif.com/media/9-20-2024/VZiBoz.gif[/IMG]
[QUOTE=Carbine;14944523]Dude Hakeem average 15 more PPG than his second option in 1994 while also leading the team in rebounds, blocks, steals and assists for the entire playoffs.
Jordan out produced his #2 guy by the same 15PPG during championship runs but he did not have to carry the burden of also being the best in every other category like 1994 Hakeem.[/QUOTE]
Hakeem needed teammates get him the ball, space the floor, and hit big shots, while MJ ran the whole game on offense, so there's no comparison.. MJ was the goat offensive player in 1993, while still being #2 for DPOY (Pippen didn't rank at all that year), and we know that Jordan's defense carries better over eras than Hakeem.
There's a difference between goat scoring and everything below - aka Hakeem never had to average 40 ppg or 38% of his team's points (goat scoring), or lead the league in usage while winning (unprecedented) ... But lets allow the stats to do the talking - according to PER, WS/48, VORP, and BPM, there was a much bigger gap between Jordan and his 2nd option than Hakeem and his 2nd option.
[QUOTE=3ba11;14944503]
[SIZE=4]hakeem's THIRD option did this:[/SIZE]
[indent][U]FINALS[/U]
95' Horry...... 19.0 gamescore... 18/10/4/3/2 on 57 TS
92' Pippen.... 18.1 gamescore.... 21/8/7/2/1 on 56 TS
91' Pippen.... 17.5 gamescore.... 21/9/7/2/1 on 53 TS
93' Pippen.... 15.6 gamescore.... 20/9/8/2/1 on 46 TS
97' Pippen.... 15.1 gamescore.... 20/8/3/2/2 on 54 TS
96' Pippen.... 13.4 gamescore.... 16/7/5/2/1 on 43 TS
98' Pippen.... 13.0 gamescore.... 16/8/5/2/1 on 50 TS[/indent]
So no
And based on PER, WS/48, VORP and BPM, the gap between Hakeem and his 2nd option in 1994 was much smaller than the gap between MJ and his 2nd option in 1993 Playoffs and Finals...
The 94' Rockets had rich man's version of all the Bulls' players... Kenny Smith, Maxwell and Thorpe were Jeff Bezos' version of Paxson, BJ and Horace, while Sam Cassell and Horry had equal or greater ceiling on the offensive end as Pippen.. They had a better roster top to bottom, which is why Hakeem didn't have to produce like MJ to win.
[/QUOTE]
[IMG]https://media.tenor.com/zdFtiktD6-wAAAAM/accomplished-job.gif[/IMG]
[IMG]https://i.makeagif.com/media/9-20-2024/_aiwGi.gif[/IMG]
[QUOTE=3ba11;14944526]..
Robinson walking right around Hakeem like he isn't even there lol.. .:oldlol:
[img]https://i.makeagif.com/media/9-20-2024/OKUejU.gif[/img]
[IMG]https://i.makeagif.com/media/9-20-2024/VZiBoz.gif[/IMG][/QUOTE]
ooooh... hakeem looks super quick and light on his feet... smh... :kobe:... hakeem was a CLUNKY mf
1-9
[QUOTE=3ba11;14944503][SIZE=3]hakeem's THIRD option did this:[/SIZE]
[indent][U]FINALS[/U]
95' Horry...... 19.0 gamescore... 18/10/4/3/2 on 57 TS
92' Pippen.... 18.1 gamescore.... 21/8/7/2/1 on 56 TS
91' Pippen.... 17.5 gamescore.... 21/9/7/2/1 on 53 TS
93' Pippen.... 15.6 gamescore.... 20/9/8/2/1 on 46 TS
97' Pippen.... 15.1 gamescore.... 20/8/3/2/2 on 54 TS
96' Pippen.... 13.4 gamescore.... 16/7/5/2/1 on 43 TS
98' Pippen.... 13.0 gamescore.... 16/8/5/2/1 on 50 TS[/indent]
So no
And based on PER, WS/48, VORP and BPM, the gap between Hakeem and his 2nd option in 1994 was much smaller than the gap between MJ and his 2nd option in 1993 Playoffs and Finals...
The 94' Rockets had rich man's version of all the Bulls' players... Kenny Smith, Maxwell and Thorpe were Jeff Bezos' version of Paxson, BJ and Horace, while Sam Cassell and Horry had equal or greater ceiling on the offensive end as Pippen.. They had a better roster top to bottom, which is why Hakeem didn't have to produce like MJ to win.[/QUOTE]
Superstar Wade's 2014 Finals gamescore 7.9
Superstar Bosh had a 10.6 gamescore
Both worse than every Pip Finals...:lol
[QUOTE=Hey Yo;14944583]Superstar Wade's 2014 Finals gamescore 7.9
Superstar Bosh had a 10.6 gamescore
Both worse than every Pip Finals...:lol[/QUOTE]
Ball domination leads to a suppression of teammate statistics.
Wade won the Finals by himself pretty much before he took the court with Lebron. Scottie never could do that.
Bosh was putting up a hyper efficient 24 ppg….Scottie could never.
[IMG]https://i.makeagif.com/media/3-24-2021/pPs2wv.gif[/IMG]
[QUOTE=Hey Yo;14944583]Superstar Wade's 2014 Finals gamescore 7.9
Superstar Bosh had a 10.6 gamescore
Both worse than every Pip Finals...:lol[/QUOTE]
History shows that everyone eventually turns to mush alongside Lebron - let's start with Mo Williams, who was reduced from 09' to 10' and was becoming less effective alongside Lebron as time progressed... Kuzma also began as a budding star (above), but he was a 12 ppg bum by the time he escaped lebron - his career would've been destroyed if he never escaped bron-ball... And then look at Wade - he had a resurgence after Lebron left in 2016 by nearly carrying the Heat to the ECF... Of course Lebron cratered Larry Hughes, Love, and Jamison IMMEDIATELY - there was no gradual decline like the others.. Love of course was destroyed and would've been much better off collecting All-NBA awards in Minnesota where he was a HOF lock - literally 100% on bballref in 2014, but now he's like 50% or something the last time I checked... The list goes on and on... What happened to IT?.. Where is Clarkson?... Ingram is another one that was lucky to escape... The list goes on and on... Westbrook saw a resurgence of respect on the Clippers and I believe made the playoffs with them just like he did every other team in his career, EXCEPT alongside bron-ball.. the list goes on and on.. Lebron is a teammate-craterer.... his game destroys teammates and he sacrifices teammates to employ "bron-ball", aka goat stat-padder
[QUOTE=warriorfan;14944584]Ball domination leads to a suppression of teammate statistics.
Wade won the Finals by himself pretty much before he took the court with Lebron. Scottie never could do that.
Bosh was putting up a hyper efficient 24 ppg….Scottie could never.[/QUOTE]
You don't actually think Bosh was better than Pippen, do you.
[QUOTE=Kblaze8855;14944492]Actual footage of Jordan attempting a game winner over Hakeem
[IMG]https://i.ibb.co/fC2Mn2S/IMG-9976.gif[/IMG][/QUOTE]
Just like that, this thread is over. :oldlol:
[QUOTE=warriorfan;14944584]Ball domination leads to a suppression of teammate statistics.
Wade won the Finals by himself pretty much before he took the court with Lebron. Scottie never could do that.
Bosh was putting up a hyper efficient 24 ppg….Scottie could never.[/QUOTE]
Wade basically won by himself??..... extremely dumb
Scottie won more playoff games in 1 season as first option than Bosh did in his first 7 seasons combined.
[QUOTE=3ba11;14944585][IMG]https://i.makeagif.com/media/3-24-2021/pPs2wv.gif[/IMG]
History shows that everyone eventually turns to mush alongside Lebron - let's start with Mo Williams, who was reduced from 09' to 10' and was becoming less effective alongside Lebron as time progressed... Kuzma also began as a budding star (above), but he was a 12 ppg bum by the time he escaped lebron - his career would've been destroyed if he never escaped bron-ball... And then look at Wade - he had a resurgence after Lebron left in 2016 by nearly carrying the Heat to the ECF... Of course Lebron cratered Larry Hughes, Love, and Jamison IMMEDIATELY - there was no gradual decline like the others.. Love of course was destroyed and would've been much better off collecting All-NBA awards in Minnesota where he was a HOF lock - literally 100% on bballref in 2014, but now he's like 50% or something the last time I checked... The list goes on and on... What happened to IT?.. Where is Clarkson?... Ingram is another one that was lucky to escape... The list goes on and on... Westbrook saw a resurgence of respect on the Clippers and I believe made the playoffs with them just like he did every other team in his career, EXCEPT alongside bron-ball.. the list goes on and on.. Lebron is a teammate-craterer.... his game destroys teammates and he sacrifices teammates to employ "bron-ball", aka goat stat-padder[/QUOTE]
You've referred to 2014 Heat a superteam many times. Now they weren't all of a sudden cause I handed your ass to ya?
[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents;14944589]You don't actually think Bosh was better than Pippen, do you.[/QUOTE]
You’re in a thread where someone is using game scores from a 4 game sample for one guy and VORP from the two stars to make the argument that one supporting cast is superior to another.
I think it’s safe to say that you can take everything said here with a grain of salt..
[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents;14944589]You don't actually think Bosh was better than Pippen, do you.[/QUOTE]
It’s a lot closer than some would think. Bosh was way more skilled. Pippen had better energy and defense I guess?
[QUOTE=Hey Yo;14944604]Wade basically won by himself??..... extremely dumb
Scottie won more playoff games in 1 season as first option than Bosh did in his first 7 seasons combined.[/QUOTE]
How many playoff games is Scottie winning on those Raptor teams?
No seriously, no ducking, give us a number.
[QUOTE=warriorfan;14944618]It’s a lot closer than some would think. Bosh was way more skilled. Pippen had better energy and defense I guess?
How many playoff games is Scottie winning on those Raptor teams?
No seriously, no ducking, give us a number.[/QUOTE]
So you're saying the 24ppg Bosh achieved (your favorite thing you praise him for) was done on a garbage team?
WOW.... never seen a player do that before him, huh??
[QUOTE=Hey Yo;14944619]So you're saying the 24ppg Bosh achieved (your favorite thing you praise him for) was done on a garbage team?
WOW.... never seen a player do that before him, huh??[/QUOTE]
never seen scottie do it lol
but that’s what I thought chico, you couldn’t even give us a number. lol
[QUOTE=warriorfan;14944618]It’s a lot closer than some would think.[/QUOTE]
:roll:
Imagine being someone who calls Hakeem scared and slow-footed. :facepalm
Short of maybe Garnett, Hakeem is literally the fastest big in the modern era in terms of the ground he could cover on defense and he got posterized a lot precisely because he was never scared to go up and challenge dunkers.
[QUOTE=dankok8;14944623]Imagine being someone who calls Hakeem scared and slow-footed. :facepalm
Short of maybe Garnett, Hakeem is literally the fastest big in the modern era in terms of the ground he could cover on defense and he got posterized a lot precisely because he was never scared to go up and challenge dunkers.[/QUOTE]
Why are you surprised given it's OP? Here is OP's classic playbook.
When comparing MJ to his peers, his peers "suck", but then when comparing those same "peers" to Lebron, those peers are suddenly "hall of fame superstars".
OP is just a pathetic troll.
[QUOTE=warriorfan;14944620]never seen scottie do it lol
but that’s what I thought chico, you couldn’t even give us a number. lol[/QUOTE]
Pippen given 7yrs to win more than 3 playoff games? I like my betting chances.
At least you admit Bosh's 24ppg doesn't mean shit on a garbage team.
[QUOTE=Hey Yo;14944627]Pippen given 7yrs to win more than 3 playoff games? I like my betting chances.
At least you admit Bosh's 24ppg doesn't mean shit on a garbage team.[/QUOTE]
Individual stats and accolades don’t matter unless you win I guess?
Well that settles it, MJ > Lebron.
Nighty night.
[QUOTE=warriorfan;14944618]It’s a lot closer than some would think. Bosh was way more skilled. Pippen had better energy and defense I guess?
How many playoff games is Scottie winning on those Raptor teams?
No seriously, no ducking, give us a number.[/QUOTE]
Bosh is a marginally better scorer, he had the green light on shit teams and only cracked 23 ppg once, and he's clearly a better shooter as well. But the other major facets of the game like defense & playmaking, Pippen frankly blows him away.
Those Raptor teams were bad but if you swap '91-'95 Pippen with '06-'10 Bosh, there's no way he's only winning 33 & 27 games like Bosh was in some of those seasons. I think he'd have the Raptors in the playoffs, esp in the East, on a regular basis. How he fares in the playoffs is anybody's guess, but I'm betting pretty confidently on the over of 3 playoff wins.
I know he's caught up in the LeBron agenda, but you just overrate Bosh if you really think he's in Pippen's tier, Pip is clearly the better and more impactful player of the two.
[QUOTE=warriorfan;14944629]Individual stats and accolades don’t matter unless you win I guess?
Well that settles it, MJ > Lebron.
Nighty night.[/QUOTE]
LOL... we're talking about winning more than 3 postseason games, in 7yrs, on a garbage team, which obviously refers to the first round.
Your kick is no good due to moving the goalpost.