Not quite an all star.

[video=youtube_share;i8M9PX_K5Ic]https://youtu.be/i8M9PX_K5Ic?si=b_PSiZxgkfLDm2Sg[/video]



But I’ll take him over this one


[video=youtube_share;QzhGT-SLkbY]https://youtu.be/QzhGT-SLkbY?si=GJVEiH1Z9ItR95bT[/video]

Not quite

[video=youtube_share;R_rrnd0sPBE]https://youtu.be/R_rrnd0sPBE?si=ogFT_nDS7yEe1dLc[/video]


But I’ll take him over this one


[video=youtube_share;etcPywPxT68]https://youtu.be/etcPywPxT68?si=nB2lY5Gkk-LAYNy5[/video]

'Not Quite An Allstar' aka 'Two Tiers Above Lebron's Typical Teammates'

Almost an all star(he was supposedly the next alternate up on year if there were one more injury)

[video=youtube_share;-AQn4TlHEnw]https://youtu.be/-AQn4TlHEnw?si=U27vU3TFxJeciCx_[/video]


Id take him over this all star…but I’d like to add a “With all due respect” since he was definitely underrated by people outside those in Chicago who made him an all star. Also the nicest pro athlete I’ve ever met

[video=youtube_share;ryopS2MHQhk]https://youtu.be/ryopS2MHQhk?si=z0ZlN83cR1392MUN[/video]

[QUOTE=Neal Romer;14955238]'Not Quite An Allstar' aka 'Two Tiers Above Lebron's Typical Teammates'[/QUOTE]

Non all star Lebron teammate…

[video=youtube_share;_dhOwhxW1Po]https://youtu.be/_dhOwhxW1Po?si=u2GBDPenicsQQn_T[/video]


Id take him over this one


[video=youtube_share;aqEbqq0mZCE]https://youtu.be/aqEbqq0mZCE?si=UdDDpol6tOUcAkIV[/video]

Would rather have Hill and he was probably a better fit on those Heat teams than Battier because of the physicality and toughness he brings. (yes Haslem and Joel Anthony were really bad)

[video=youtube_share;s5-Jd_shnU0]https://youtu.be/s5-Jd_shnU0?si=phuEbM7Q_QTMgiAq[/video]

Had a nine year stretch where he was averaging 16-23PPG and 9-11RPG.

08-09 averaged 23/11
13-14 averaged 22/11, didn't make the all-star team but was voted 8th in MVP voting behind Durant, LeBron, Griffin, Noah, Harden, Curry and Paul :oldlol:

[QUOTE=Reggie43;14955356]Would rather have Hill and he was probably a better fit on those Heat teams than Battier because of the physicality and toughness he brings. (yes Haslem and Joel Anthony were really bad)[/QUOTE]

I saw Dirk give an interview where he pretty much credited Haslem for his poor performance in the 06 finals in a lot of key moments. seems he was doing what he was asked to do at the time but though of course prime Hill was a more highly regarded player.

Battier would likely be of more use in the current league though that isn’t the same thing as being “Better”. I like that I can have him defend most of the league, not have him take anything away, make his open shots, be a great teammate, and likely mentor the young guys if they aren’t idiots.

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855;14955364]I saw Dirk give an interview where he pretty much credited Haslem for his poor performance in the 06 finals in a lot of key moments. seems he was doing what he was asked to do at the time but though of course prime Hill was a more highly regarded player.

Battier would likely be of more use in the current league though that isn’t the same thing as being “Better”. I like that I can have him defend most of the league, not have him take anything away, make his open shots, be a great teammate, and likely mentor the young guys if they aren’t idiots.[/QUOTE]

I meant that the Haslem that Battier played with was bad along with Joel sorry for the confusion.

Battier is obviously better for todays league who barely have any use for your prototypical defender enforcer types but still not sold on Battier being that good and would rather have roleplayer versions of Iguodala, Artest or Ron Harper over him.

We that’s a defensive Player of the year an All Star who lead good teams himself and another guy who should’ve been an All Star so that’s reasonable but I would take all three of them over Tyrone Hill as well. He was obviously a good player just not what I’m looking for if I need to choose my top role players.

Bulls version of Ron Harper wouldnt be leading his own team anywhere as with Warriors Iguodala and Lakers Artest

Iggy led a 57 win team the season before he was a Warrior. How much do you think he lost in 3 months?

Ron was the second leading scorer on a 50 win team that took the 09 lakers to 7 right before he became a laker. Ron’s clippers weren’t shit but he was still productive.

Those guys did give up a good bit of responsibility to go be other guys.

Rod Strickland peak was All-NBA 2nd Team, yet not an All-Star. The 90s was wild. I think Steve Smith took his spot as a guard that year ... well it was actually Penny. I think he only played 17 games before the All-Star break

If we look at the rapm data from 2000-2010 Odom was better than a lot of All Stars.

And one would think it's because he had a super smooth handle and playmaking skill as a 7 footer, but his defensive metrics were elite and carried him. So he was better beyond the flash in terms of impact.

[QUOTE=tpols;14955465]If we look at the rapm data from 2000-2010 Odom was better than a lot of All Stars.

And one would think it's because he had a super smooth handle and playmaking skill as a 7 footer, but his defensive metrics were elite and carried him. So he was better beyond the flash in terms of impact.[/QUOTE]

I wouldn't say a lot, maybe a handful like 5 but thats even pushing it.

Not quite an all star...

[video=youtube;7dKPuukktH0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dKPuukktH0[/video]


But I'd take him over this guy...

[video=youtube;uvMTocAAFOA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvMTocAAFOA[/video]

You could argue he was better than both Davis brothers, Wally, Jamal Magloire, Anthony Mason, Brad Miller, Vlade(at least the one who was an all star) Josh Howard, Okur, Mo Williams, NVE, Devin Harris, West and Hibbert, Kaman, David Lee. That’s 16. You could at least talk about either way. You could add quite a few more. Jeff Teague and Lamar Odom aren’t on entirely different tiers. Same for Odom and Paul Millsap. Hell Odom was better at basketball than Kyle Korver.

If I really sat down with the list, I’m betting Odom is on the level of at least 20 All-Stars since 2000 or so. You could take Kenyon over Odom but it’s not a dumb question. Neither is Odom or Deandre Jordan. I’d take prime Odom over Drummond even with his 16 rebounds.

i’m not putting him over all of the players I mentioned, but you wouldn’t have to be an idiot to take him over any of them.

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855;14955427]Iggy led a 57 win team the season before he was a Warrior. How much do you think he lost in 3 months?

Ron was the second leading scorer on a 50 win team that took the 09 lakers to 7 right before he became a laker. Ron’s clippers weren’t shit but he was still productive.

Those guys did give up a good bit of responsibility to go be other guys.[/QUOTE]

Yeah I will give you Artest and Iguodala but saying Iggy lead a 57 win team is kind of dishonest considering their depth but how about the slowed down by injuries Bulls Ron Harper?

Battier is worse than those guys so what tier of players does he fall into? Would you rather have the version of Rick Fox that was winning with the Lakers?

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855;14955478]You could argue he was better than both Davis brothers, Wally, Jamal Magloire, Anthony Mason, Brad Miller, Vlade(at least the one who was an all star) Josh Howard, Okur, Mo Williams, NVE, Devin Harris, West and Hibbert, Kaman, David Lee. That’s 16. You could at least talk about either way. You could add quite a few more. Jeff Teague and Lamar Odom aren’t on entirely different tiers. Same for Odom and Paul Millsap. Hell Odom was better at basketball than Kyle Korver.

If I really sat down with the list, I’m betting Odom is on the level of at least 20 All-Stars since 2000 or so. You could take Kenyon over Odom but it’s not a dumb question. Neither is Odom or Deandre Jordan. I’d take prime Odom over Drummond even with his 16 rebounds.

i’m not putting him over all of the players I mentioned, but you wouldn’t have to be an idiot to take him over any of them.[/QUOTE]

Magloire, Kaman, Kyle Korver. Okur maybe. Wasn't better than say David West, one of the most underrated bigs of his era.
Lamar wasn't that special to me IMO, wasn't he the main guy on the Clippers with Richardson and Darius Miles lol.
Not even sure if Ricky Davis over Lamar is a wrong answer

[QUOTE=L.Kizzle;14955480]Magloire, Kaman, Kyle Korver. Okur maybe. Wasn't better than say David West, one of the most underrated bigs of his era.
Lamar wasn't that special to me IMO, wasn't he the main guy on the Clippers with Richardson and Darius Miles lol.
Not even sure if Ricky Davis over Lamar is a wrong answer[/QUOTE]

Nice catch on David West even though I really liked Odom which I thought was an Mvp level talent back then and was so much fun to watch.

[QUOTE=L.Kizzle;14955480]Magloire, Kaman, Kyle Korver. Okur maybe. Wasn't better than say David West, one of the most underrated bigs of his era.
Lamar wasn't that special to me IMO, wasn't he the main guy on the Clippers with Richardson and Darius Miles lol.
Not even sure if Ricky Davis over Lamar is a wrong answer[/QUOTE]

There isn’ta single player there people would find weird to compare to Lamar. The best of those players and Lamar are pretty similar level wise. You don’t trade West for prime Odom and feel like your team is ruined.

These are all high end good players. Not great ones.