Printable View
How does he compare to the other great guards like MJ, Kobe, Wade, T-Mac, and Harden at their best? Talking just how 'good' they are.
Including this season so far, we have a rough three-year stretch of 30.7 ppg, 5.3 rpg, 5.9 apg, 1.9 spg, 1.0 bpg, 2.5 topg on 63.2% TS [109 TS+]. I think that's a good enough sample size playing that primary option, high-volume role for us to assess his talent, ability, and impact on winning.
He's already one of the best guards ever peak wise, need to see more in the playoffs before determining his ranking for sure. He's leading or close to it in most impact data, so regular season wise he's as good as any of those guys besides MJ probably.
Needing to see more in the playoffs is correct. But I’m certain he’ll excel in any series against anyone. If Chet comes back strong and the Thunder can rebound the ball they’re winning the title. He has no weakness and his midrange game has turned into one of the best I’ve ever seen. Just automatic.
The suddenness and extremely intentional movements would play in any era as well.
What do we think of his defense? I think he's better than Kobe and T-Mac. Those two weren't able to align their best defensive years with their offense as well as Shai has. I'm not sure where to place him among Wade and MJ.
So good he can't wait to get out of Bumf#ck OKC.
[QUOTE=Im Still Ballin;14966445]What do we think of his defense? I think he's better than Kobe and T-Mac. Those two weren't able to align their best defensive years with their offense as well as Shai has. I'm not sure where to place him among Wade and MJ.[/QUOTE]
I think that is the case with McGrady. His best defensive years were in Toronto, while in Orlando and Houston he just didn't put enough effort in that area of the game. Kobe, however, had some seasons where his defensive and offensive game were really good at the same time.
I think he's massively overrated if people are thinking he's as good as peak Kobe or Wade.
[QUOTE=Carbine;14966450]I think he's massively overrated if people are thinking he's as good as peak Kobe or Wade.[/QUOTE]
He's on pace to be the first guard to shoot 60% from 2pt. Back-2-back 30 ppg seasons with 2+ steals per game. He's currently on his way for his third straight season averaging over 30 ppg 5 assists per game and 5 rebounds per game adding 2 steals per game (last season as well as this season). He basically needs 1 mvp and a ring to be ahead of Wade. He's better than D Wade, sorry. He's also more efficient than Kobe ever was.
Yeah, I don't evaluate players based on numbers across different eras. You do you though, just keep it consistent across all player vs player comparisons.
Embiid shits on Duncan, for example, would have to be a conclusion you need to make if we are comparing four box score numbers + efficiency.
He's so fking good man. He's like Blade. He takes all the strengths of player's games he takes from (example derozan) with none of their weaknesses. Then on top of all of that he is a off-ball defensive menace like a tatum or AD or young D.Wade. He's literally like the best player in the league and no one even talks about him. its actually pretty crazy. So fking good....Hat is off to em. Blade of the NBA
Right up there with any guard ever. Has a heck of a team around him. If he can get a couple finals appearances in the next few years and even a ring or 2 he'll be in everyone's top 5 guards all time list so fast
[QUOTE=Carbine;14966452]Yeah, I don't evaluate players based on numbers across different eras. You do you though, just keep it consistent across all player vs player comparisons.
Embiid shits on Duncan, for example, would have to be a conclusion you need to make if we are comparing four box score numbers + efficiency.[/QUOTE]
Ding ding ding
Can't have players going vs plumbers and roofers, and then not use the same concept when you're not allowed to guard someone that can carry and travel at will
Different eras
[QUOTE=Carbine;14966450]I think he's massively overrated if people are thinking he's as good as peak Kobe or Wade.[/QUOTE]
I'll say this, he's a better defender than either of them ever were.
I don't believe that. Kobe generally gets overrated for his defense later in his career and appears to be getting underrated for his defense up until around 2003.
You said ever, so that would include Kobes years from '00 to '03 where he was top tier.
Later Kobe picked when to play hard like what is required to be all time on that side of the ball. He still had it in him to be that guy, see 2008 Olympics.
[QUOTE=Carbine;14966450]I think he's massively overrated if people are thinking he's as good as peak Kobe or Wade.[/QUOTE]
Actually read somewhere that SGA’s midrange FG% currently exceeds what MJ, Kobe and Wade shot. Granted defenses are less hands on, the guy is in that range of skill set.
[QUOTE=Carbine;14966450]I think he's massively overrated if people are thinking he's as good as peak Kobe or [B]Wade.[/B][/QUOTE]
Wade is becoming the Isiah Thomas of a certain generation of men.
I don't like giving SGA the MVP but top seed with three back to back seasons with 30 PPG
He needs to be judged in THIS era only, since we've entered a new era of basketball since 2021 (2017-2020 was the transition phase).
SGA has been REALLY good the last 2 and 1/2 regular seasons, but we clearly need to see him do more in the playoffs. He hasn't proven himself (yet) to be ranked in the same tier as a Jokic, Giannis, Luka, or even Embiid.
I want to say SGA is better than Tatum, but Tatum has done a lot more and they are both the same age (26).
He's currently the #1 guard so far. #2 overall after Jokic.
[QUOTE=k0kakw0rld;14966451]He's on pace to be the first guard to shoot 60% from 2pt. Back-2-back 30 ppg seasons with 2+ steals per game. He's currently on his way for his third straight season averaging over 30 ppg 5 assists per game and 5 rebounds per game adding 2 steals per game (last season as well as this season). He basically needs 1 mvp and a ring to be ahead of Wade. He's better than D Wade, sorry. He's also more efficient than Kobe ever was.[/QUOTE]
hehe
Edit: Not gonna argue if you say he's on PACE but that's not what you said. I dunno why people have to go off the rails to compliment a player. D Wade was an ATG SG, so was Kobe. Those guys are on the mount rushmore. Keep that in mind.
-Smak
SGA is just another low-assisted 1st option (ball-dominator), which has never produced the best basketball (dynasty or dominant champion)... The "best basketball" can be defined as dominant champions that averaged 1 loss per round or less (4 losses max), or dynasties that mostly won for a material stretch of 5+ years (i.e. 3 in 5 years).
Accordingly, since possession-tracking began in 1997, 1st options with a career assisted rate above 40% (jumpshooters or bigs) were 1st option for 12 of 12 dynasties or dominant champions (the best basketball).. Otoh, 1st options with a career assisted rate below 40% (ball-dominators) were never 1st option for the best basketball (0 for 12).
Since the best jumpshooters and bigs produce the best basketball, they're superior to the best ball-dominators, so the first ball-dominators appear in the all-time rankings at 11th, 12th, and 13th (Magic, Lebron, Oscar).. The issue is that low-assisted 1st options have a high volume of unassisted buckets that hinders ball movement, while highly-assisted 1st options produce higher-assist teams and foster the great ball movement that every dynasty has.
The full rankings are MJ, Kareem, Russell, Wilt, Kobe, Bird, Duncan, Shaq, Curry, Jokic, Magic, Lebron, Oscar - the 2nd thru 10th spots are more interchangeable and subjective, but it's set in stone that MJ is #1 and ball-dominators are no higher than 11th, based on the previous logic that ball-dominators are never the 1st option for the best basketball (dynasties or dominant champions).
If Chet can remain healthy (a big if at this point) then OKC absolutely has a dynasty brewing. This is like their 2015 Warriors campaign.
If they can add one more rebounder off the bench then they'll be an unstoppable team.
I think many of us in the basketball fan world thought of him as like a second tier type of star sort of like a lower tier All Star but he's clearly an upper tier star now.
Realistically how many guards are better than him these days