Jordan "I could've still led the league in scoring and the Bulls to a title in 1999

This article was originally written in July of 1998. Basically talks about MJ saying he wouldn't play for any other head coach than Phil. Funny to see the claims MJ makes about the 1999 season but his retirement speech he referred to himself as burnt out and exhausted as to why he was walking away again.

You think he leads the Bulls to 4 in a row in 1999 if he came back for the 50gm season?


"Jerry Rnteinsdorf has always made his own choices. Whatever choices he makes, it doesn't force me to play for his choices,' Jordan said. ``I'm not going to be unhappy not playing the game of basketball.

``None of you guys can say he stayed longer than he should have stayed. That's how I've always (felt). I never wanted someone to put a foot in my butt and kick me out. When I walk away, I want you all to realize I can still lead the league in scoring, I can still lead the Chicago Bulls to a championship.'

[url]https://greensboro.com/jordan-leaning-toward-retiring-michael-jordan-reiterates-that-he-wont-play-for-anyone-but-phil/article_c2e39e6d-767e-5692-a1ef-b4be3b5bf683.html[/url]

I don't see the Bulls winning the 99 title. Pippen was never the same player post-back surgery and Rodman had become much less reliable than he was in 96 or even 97. Unless they upgraded the roster with some relevant pieces but that's much harder to predict than just taking the 98 team as it was. The only thing in the Bulls favor that year would be the shortened season. IIRC MJ was on 1-year contracts making over 30million which was huge back then. He would have needed to scale that back to bring in some relevant FAs( I don't know who would have been available that year and too lazy to look up right now). Plus the fact that Pippen was also a FA and given what he know about his contract issues, he would have sought a big payday. I just don't see any of that leading to a title.

As for him winning a scoring title, A.I led the league that year at 26.8, not a hard number for MJ to beat. He may have put up another 28ppg. Though if I recall he cut his finger using a cigar cutter during the off-season which would have affected him playing in general, much less leading the league in scoring.

Would have depended on how/if they replaced Pippen. But he was still an MVP-caliber player and they had just won a championship. The confidence was justified.

The league was still slow and defense heavy and he likely still had most of his hops, so he would still be able to put up 25-30 points on decent volume on jump shooting alone.

It would be an interesting speculation as to who they would have replaced Pippen with yes.

Glen Rice was a free agent (so says ChatGPT) and they also had prime Kukoc. Would have been interesting to see prime Glen Rice and prime Kukoc on that team. MJ could have saved energy with those two running the offence and just have focused on his 4th quarters as he tended to do in 1998.

They wouldnt even have won in 98 without the 2 massive shotclock call mess-ups

[QUOTE=ArbitraryWater;14969119]They wouldnt even have won in 98 without the 2 massive shotclock call mess-ups[/QUOTE]
It's kind of crazy how little that's brought up. If LeBron had won under those circumstances we would literally never hear the end of it :lol

[QUOTE=Phoenix;14969067]I don't see the Bulls winning the 99 title. Pippen was never the same player post-back surgery and Rodman had become much less reliable than he was in 96 or even 97. Unless they upgraded the roster with some relevant pieces but that's much harder to predict than just taking the 98 team as it was. The only thing in the Bulls favor that year would be the shortened season. IIRC MJ was on 1-year contracts making over 30million which was huge back then. He would have needed to scale that back to bring in some relevant FAs( I don't know who would have been available that year and too lazy to look up right now). Plus the fact that Pippen was also a FA and given what he know about his contract issues, he would have sought a big payday. I just don't see any of that leading to a title.

As for him winning a scoring title, A.I led the league that year at 26.8, not a hard number for MJ to beat. He may have put up another 28ppg. Though if I recall he cut his finger using a cigar cutter during the off-season which would have affected him playing in general, much less leading the league in scoring.[/QUOTE]

Trailblazers Pippen was more than good enough. Granted, Pippen was definitely not the same player. But he was still very good. Pippen with the Rockets wasn't bad. He wasn't playing a peak capability because his skillset was limited due to the way the Rockets played their offense. But he did finish top 10 in thr DPOY awards in 99 and 00.

I don't know why you guys keep dismissing Rodmans impact in 98. I send the same videos multiple times showing Rodmans defense on Karl Malone in the 98 NBA Finals. Kukoc could've taken on a bigger role on offense.

At some point, these conversations seem to be more about what people want to believe as opposed to what what was believable.

[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents;14969123]It's kind of crazy how little that's brought up. If LeBron had won under those circumstances we would literally never hear the end of it :lol[/QUOTE]

This can be said about every series in every playoff in every sport. Missed calls are a part of the game. One or two plays is never the reason a team wins or loses.

[QUOTE=97 bulls;14969133]Trailblazers Pippen was more than good enough. Granted, Pippen was definitely not the same player. But he was still very good. Pippen with the Rockets wasn't bad. He wasn't playing a peak capability because his skillset was limited due to the way the Rockets played their offense. But he did finish top 10 in thr DPOY awards in 99 and 00.

I don't know why you guys keep dismissing Rodmans impact in 98. I send the same videos multiple times showing Rodmans defense on Karl Malone in the 98 NBA Finals. Kukoc could've taken on a bigger role on offense.

At some point, these conversations seem to be more about what people want to believe as opposed to what what was believable.[/QUOTE]

I didn't dismiss Rodman's impact, I said he wasn't as reliable as he was in 96 and 97. 96 Rodman was actually impactful enough to be on the MVP ballot and garner FMVPs votes. By 98 some of his off-court antics were creeping back in, most infamously wrestling in WCW and going off on mid-season Vegas excursions away from the team. All the core players were at the age where a year older didn't mean a year better. It was pretty clear that they were on their,if not close to, last legs as champions as constructed without roster upgrades.

Beyond all that, as said Jordan sliced his finger bad enough that he would have missed time. Who knows what the timetable for his return would be, what seeding the Bulls would be in upon his return, and how affected he would have been by said injury. They may have had an uphill battle trying to get themselves in position for a final run, taking into account 98 Jordan had a hell of a job keeping the team afloat while Pippen was out; he's likely being asked to do a pretty herculean job trying to make up ground again. Pippen was declining as a scorer even before the back injury. Kukoc taking on a bigger offensive role doesn't necessarily cancel all of this out. Best scenario I see is maybe a finals run but they'd have big problems with the Duncan and Robinson tandem.

I mean, what you're saying could just as easily be discounted as what you want to believe as opposed to the reality based on numerous factors.

[QUOTE=97 bulls;14969135]This can be said about every series in every playoff in every sport. Missed calls are a part of the game. One or two plays is never the reason a team wins or loses.[/QUOTE]

No it cant.

This isnt about arguing calls.

This is literally a false/late basket being awarded in the case of Chicago and a legal basket falsely waved off.

[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents;14969123]It's kind of crazy how little that's brought up. If LeBron had won under those circumstances we would literally never hear the end of it :lol[/QUOTE]

Absolutely. So undermentioned its crazy.

People love that storybook ending though so why bring it up.

[QUOTE=Phoenix;14969147]I didn't dismiss Rodman's impact, I said he wasn't as reliable as he was in 96 and 97. 96 Rodman was actually impactful enough to be on the MVP ballot and garner FMVPs votes. By 98 some of his off-court antics were creeping back in, most infamously wrestling in WCW and going off on mid-season Vegas excursions away from the team. All the core players were at the age where a year older didn't mean a year better. It was pretty clear that they were on their,if not close to, last legs as champions as constructed without roster upgrades.

Beyond all that, as said Jordan sliced his finger bad enough that he would have missed time. Who knows what the timetable for his return would be, what seeding the Bulls would be in upon his return, and how affected he would have been by said injury. They may have had an uphill battle trying to get themselves in position for a final run, taking into account 98 Jordan had a hell of a job keeping the team afloat while Pippen was out; he's likely being asked to do a pretty herculean job trying to make up ground again. Pippen was declining as a scorer even before the back injury. Kukoc taking on a bigger offensive role doesn't necessarily cancel all of this out. Best scenario I see is maybe a finals run but they'd have big problems with the Duncan and Robinson tandem.

I mean, what you're saying could just as easily be discounted as what you want to believe as opposed to the reality based on numerous factors.[/QUOTE]

Again, whenever I hear someone saying or questioning Rodmans impact on the 98 Finals, I've literally sent the videos on YouTube showing what 98 Rodman did to Karl Malone. Most of his points came on everyone but Rodman. Hell the Bulls had an easier time with the Jazz in 98 than in 97. If Pippen doent hurt his back in game 6, that game isn't as close and Pippen probably wins Finals MVP. Along with that, the Bulls set the record for winning disparity when they beat the Jazz 96-54.

If Pippen doesn't have that surgery in 98, the Bulls easily win 68-70 games in 98. Keep in mind they won 62 with Pippen missing 38 games and them starting the season 8-7. The Bulls weren't as weak as people like to think.

The Spurs beat a Knicks team without Ewing (granted he was older). I don't see Duncan and Robinson being as much of a factor because I'm sure the Bulls would've severed the head of the snake. Averg Johnson would've been eaten alive by Pippen, Jordan, and Harper. Which would've really limited the Spurs effectiveness.

[QUOTE=ArbitraryWater;14969150]No it cant.

This isnt about arguing calls.

This is literally a false/late basket being awarded in the case of Chicago and a legal basket falsely waved off.[/QUOTE]

It's not arguing calls. There are missed calls in every game. It happens.

[QUOTE=97 bulls;14969156]Again, whenever I hear someone saying or questioning Rodmans impact on the 98 Finals, I've literally sent the videos on YouTube showing what 98 Rodman did to Karl Malone. Most of his points came on everyone but Rodman. Hell the Bulls had an easier time with the Jazz in 98 than in 97. If Pippen doent hurt his back in game 6, that game isn't as close and Pippen probably wins Finals MVP. Along with that, the Bulls set the record for winning disparity when they beat the Jazz 96-54.

If Pippen doesn't have that surgery in 98, the Bulls easily win 68-70 games in 98. Keep in mind they won 62 with Pippen missing 38 games and them starting the season 8-7. The Bulls weren't as weak as people like to think.

The Spurs beat a Knicks team without Ewing (granted he was older). I don't see Duncan and Robinson being as much of a factor because I'm sure the Bulls would've severed the head of the snake. Averg Johnson would've been eaten alive by Pippen, Jordan, and Harper. Which would've really limited the Spurs effectiveness.[/QUOTE]

I wasn't specifying Rodman's impact in the 98 finals. I didn't even utter the phrase. Again, I just said he wasn't as reliable overall as in past years in a general sense. You're reading that as if I said he wouldn't be of any use. The Bulls were also used to dealing with one all-star big. Shaq, Mourning, Malone etc. Even if Rodman someone managed to tame Duncan, Robinson is still left largely unchecked. The advantage for the Bulls on the perimeter is to some degree nullified by the interior edge for the Spurs. I've watched the 98 finals numerous times, I know what Rodman did. In the 99 finals Duncan played 46 minutes a night. There's gonna be alot of time he's on the floor and Rodman wouldn't be if he plays similar minutes.

Jordan did a hell of a job keeping that team on pace for 62, and yes of course they win more with Pippen not missing time. But we're talking about a scenario where MJ is out with the finger injury, leaving a post surgery Pippen and Kukoc to pick up the slack. At best they're probably middle of the pack until MJ returns, and then he has to be on form to take them home the rest of the way.

IF Pippen doesn't have surgery. IF Jordan doesn't cut his finger, and so forth. OK, the what If game. But Pippen DID have surgery, MJ DID cut his finger and would have missed time, and the likely result of that is those two and Rodman in 99 being worse ( to varying degrees) versions of who they were in 98. If there is some alternate reality where MJ doesn't cut his finger and is at least as good as 98, Pippen doesn't injure his back and is at least as good as he was in 98, and Kukoc can pick up the slack, then that's a different conversation. But I'm basing my opinion on what actually was in 99.

[QUOTE=97 bulls;14969157]It's not arguing calls. There are missed calls in every game. It happens.[/QUOTE]
There's never been another game I can think of, esp one of that magnitude, where two incorrect calls went against one team, resulting in a 5 point swing, in a game they ended up losing by 1.

If those calls are made correctly the Jazz get a Game 7 at home with Pippen either extremely hindered or unable to play.

[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents;14969160]There's never been another game I can think of, esp one of that magnitude, where two incorrect calls went against one team, resulting in a 5 point swing, in a game they ended up losing by 1.

If those calls are made correctly the Jazz get a Game 7 at home with Pippen either extremely hindered or unable to play.[/QUOTE]

There is just no way that Utah beats Chicago in a series, man. Not in Chicago. That's nuts. Game 7, in Chicago, never. I remember watching those games, and it was always like ahh the Jazz won (cuz I was tired of MJ n the Bulls,) but I never thought, for a second, that they would get the series. Even without Pippen, for real.

It'd be ****in down to the wire and MJ would win it. Bulls always got tons of calls. Utah wasn't that good in regards to being a championship level team. Stockton and Malone, nice, but the rest of their team was pretty trash. I don't think any team in the NBA at that time beats the Bulls, cuz the NBA was depleted. I think Seattle had more chance a second time around. They seemed like a tougher matchup.

-Smak

[QUOTE=Phoenix;14969159]I wasn't specifying Rodman's impact in the 98 finals. I didn't even utter the phrase. Again, I just said he wasn't as reliable overall as in past years in a general sense. You're reading that as if I said he wouldn't be of any use. The Bulls were also used to dealing with one all-star big. Shaq, Mourning, Malone etc. Even if Rodman someone managed to tame Duncan, Robinson is still left largely unchecked. The advantage for the Bulls on the perimeter is to some degree nullified by the interior edge for the Spurs. I've watched the 98 finals numerous times, I know what Rodman did. In the 99 finals Duncan played 46 minutes a night. There's gonna be alot of time he's on the floor and Rodman wouldn't be, if you're trying to extrapolate his defense on Malone in 98.

Jordan did a hell of a job keeping that team on pace for 62, and yes of course they win more with Pippen not missing time. But we're talking about a scenario where MJ is out with the finger injury, leaving a post surgery Pippen and Kukoc to pick up the slack. At best they're probably middle of the pack until MJ returns, and then he has to be on form to take them home the rest of the way.

IF Pippen doesn't have surgery. IF Jordan doesn't cut his finger, and so forth. OK, the what If game. But Pippen DID have surgery, MJ DID cut his finger and would have missed time, and the likely result of that is those two and Rodman in 99 being worse ( to varying degrees) versions of who they were in 98. If there is some alternate reality where MJ doesn't cut his finger and is at least as good as 98, Pippen doesn't injure his back and is at least as good as he was in 98, and Kukoc can pick up the slack, then that's a different conversation. But I'm basing my opinion on what actually was in 99.[/QUOTE]

Lol. Bro. This is all what if. Because non of this stuff happend. But based off of what did happen. What im saying isn't far fetched. This whole platform may as well shut down of we're not going to have the 'what if' conversation.
You stated that Rodman was less reliable. Rodman LOCKED UP Karl Malone in 98. You said Pippen wasn't the same after the surgery. The drop off wasn't as bad as people like to try to make it. I'm only responding to what you stated.

The question is whether or not the Bulls could've won the title in 99. My point is simple, they were so far superior to everyone else and that even with a drop off, based on where they were in 98 and 99 and 00 for Pippen. They're still better than everyone else.

[QUOTE=97 bulls;14969166][B]Lol. Bro. This is all what if.[/B] Because non of this stuff happend. But based off of what did happen. What im saying isn't far fetched. This whole platform may as well shut down of we're not going to have the 'what if' conversation.
You stated that Rodman was less reliable. Rodman LOCKED UP Karl Malone in 98. You said Pippen wasn't the same after the surgery. The drop off wasn't as bad as people like to try to make it. I'm only responding to what you stated.

The question is whether or not the Bulls could've won the title in 99. My point is simple, they were so far superior to everyone else and that even with a drop off, based on where they were in 98 and 99 and 00 for Pippen. They're still better than everyone else.[/QUOTE]


We're not really debating the same scenario. I'm saying 'this is what *actually* happened( MJ's finger injury, Pippen's back surgery, etc), and as a result of that I think the following.....'. You're saying this:

"[B]If Pippen doesn't have that surgery in 98[/B], the Bulls easily win 68-70 games in 98. Keep in mind they won 62 with Pippen missing 38 games and them starting the season 8-7. The Bulls weren't as weak as people like to think. "

We're all speculating but I'm rooting my opinion in what I think the outcome would be based on the actual events that happened. You're crafting a hypothetical situation where, for example, Pippen doesn't have the surgery, and seemingly not taking into account MJ's injury. That's where the actual 'what if' is coming into play here.

[QUOTE=ILLsmak;14969165]There is just no way that Utah beats Chicago in a series, man.[B] Not in Chicago. That's nuts. Game 7, in Chicago, never.[/B] I remember watching those games, and it was always like ahh the Jazz won (cuz I was tired of MJ n the Bulls,) but I never thought, for a second, that they would get the series. Even without Pippen, for real.

It'd be ****in down to the wire and MJ would win it. Bulls always got tons of calls. Utah wasn't that good in regards to being a championship level team. Stockton and Malone, nice, but the rest of their team was pretty trash. I don't think any team in the NBA at that time beats the Bulls, cuz the NBA was depleted. I think Seattle had more chance a second time around. They seemed like a tougher matchup.

-Smak[/QUOTE]

Just for accuracy sake, the 98 finals game 7 would have been in Utah, they had the HCA advantage this series.

[QUOTE=Phoenix;14969175]Just for accuracy sake, the 98 finals game 7 would have been in Utah, they had the HCA advantage this series.[/QUOTE]

Oh shit lool. Well, I still stand by what I said.

-Smak

Why are some of you guys looking at this as if Pippen and Rodman were coming back in 1999? I'm taking his quote as if those 2 are gone yet MJ thinks he could still pull off 4 in a row.... with a new head coach and system.

[QUOTE=ILLsmak;14969176]Oh shit lool. Well, I still stand by what I said.

-Smak[/QUOTE]

It would have likely required a similar effort from MJ to what he did in game 6, and Kukoc would have needed a big scoring game ( he scored 15 in game 6 ) replacing Pippen.

[QUOTE=Hey Yo;14969177]Why are some of you guys looking at this as if Pippen and Rodman were coming back in 1999? I'm taking this as if those 2 are gone yet MJ thinks he could still pull off 4 in a row.... with a new head coach and system.[/QUOTE]

Well that's kind of what I was getting at. The team was effectively breaking up, but even if they ran it back they wouldn't have been the same team from 98 due to key injuries. There seems to be a few conversations being had here.

He maybe could have. Instead he QUIT.

[QUOTE=Phoenix;14969178]It would have likely required a similar effort from MJ to what he did in game 6, and Kukoc would have needed a big scoring game ( he scored 15 in game 6 ) replacing Pippen.[/QUOTE]

My PoV is that the NBA is fixed haha. They might have even wanted it to go 7 for a greater moment, but MJ did his thing. And yea Kukoc... it would be tough without Pip, but I just can't see a reality where the Bulls don't 3peat.

Even Gobertfan didn't think Utah had a chance in that series. That's why 7 game series are so great, they equalize. Sure, stuff can happen, and so can flukes, but I don't think the Bulls are gonna get fluked. Just like it's possible the Rockets could have matched up better with Chi as well, but in the end, BULLSWIN. BULLSWINNN.

-Smak

[QUOTE=Hey Yo;14969177]Why are some of you guys looking at this as if Pippen and Rodman were coming back in 1999? I'm taking his quote as if those 2 are gone yet MJ thinks he could still pull off 4 in a row.... with a new head coach and system.[/QUOTE]

You're choosing to take the quote that way but as cocky as Jordan is he didn't think he could win an NBA championship without any other great players. Plus the Bulls would have had to pay him over 30 mil. By the standards of today he was making 70 or 80 mil per. Why would the Bulls pay him like that so they could surround him with average players and struggle to make the 8 seed?

The 50 game compressed schedule was brutal for the older teams but with that said I still think they could have won in 99 but they wouldnt be head and shoulders over everybody because of the aforementioned issues with Pip and Rodman.

I have no doubt he would have taken the scoring title. The Bulls winning a championship would have been iffy though.

[QUOTE=Reggie43;14969192]The 50 game compressed schedule was brutal for the older teams but with that said I still think they could have won in 99 but they wouldnt be head and shoulders over everybody because of the aforementioned issues with Pip and Rodman.[/QUOTE]

This would be the biggest issue. This issue also would be greatly predicated on a scenario where the Bulls management is trying to squeeze as much out of the team as possible. If they add depth relieve the role of Jordan and Pippen and Rodman. I think they'd had overcome the 50 game season.

No pip?