Michael Jordan never won a playoffs series without Scottie Pippen

He only started winning playoffs games after Pippen was drafted. Magic led the Lakers in the NBA finals without Kareem. Lebron won without Wade. Jordan failed to led the Wizards in the playoffs

Interesting

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05' HUGHES.................. 21.6 PER... 0.157 WS/48... 3.7 VORP... 4.3 BPM... 22/6/5.... 1st Team All-D
90' PIPPEN.................... 16.3 PER... 0.087 WS/48... 3.0 VORP... 1.8 BPM... 16/6/5.... No All-D





[B]16 PLAYOFF TEAMS IN THE 1989 PLAYOFFS:[/B]



[INDENT][img]https://i.makeagif.com/media/1-17-2025/usGo_w.gif[/img][/INDENT]


* The 2006 Cavs had 3 players in the top 60 for PPG

* The 2010 Cavs had 3 players in the top 60

* The 2007-2009 Cavs had 2 players in the top 75 for PPG



[QUOTE=Lebron23;14970742]He only started winning playoffs games after Pippen was drafted. Magic led the Lakers in the NBA finals without Kareem. Lebron won without Wade. Jordan failed to led the Wizards in the playoffs[/QUOTE]


All young players like Giannis, Lebron, Jokic, and Durant were lottery for their first few seasons, so young players typically lose and Pippen was lucky to land alongside the GOAT as he was entering his prime.

Furthermore, Lebron's first playoff teams required the East all-star center and an acquisition that was better than 1990 Pippen on both sides of the ball (previous post), and also better defensive ranking than the 1st three-peat Bulls - [I]MJ would've three-peated with this caliber of help, while Lebron was perennial loser.[/I]

Never won a playoff series? He never even had a winning record.

Shit is pathetic.

[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents;14970801]Never won a playoff series? He never even had a winning record :([/QUOTE]


young players typically lose before they start winning, which means that Pippen was just lucky to land alongside the GOAT as he was entering his prime (when great players stop losing)...

The numbers show that he had no impact on Jordan winning that 1st series and Jordan would've 3-peated with someone viable in Pippen's place from 88-90'.

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Before joining Lebron and Kobe:

2014 KEVIN LOVE...................... 2x All-NBA.... 0.245 WS/48.... 26.9 PER
2007 PAU GASOL....................... 0x All-NBA.... 0.155 WS/48.... 24.1 PER




[B][U]All-time rankings[/U][/B]


[Indent][U]PER[/U]

4. AD
24. Wade
33. Kyrie
51. Pau
64. Love
72. Bosh
143. Pippen
N/A Murray (outside 250)
N/A Klay (outside 250)


[U]WS/48[/U]

16. AD
68. Pau
72. Love
75. Kyrie
79. Wade
86. Bosh
141. Pippen
N/A Murray (outside 250)
N/A Klay (outside 250)


[U]True Shooting[/U]

51. AD
80. Kyrie
111. Klay
125. Love
124. Bosh
163. Pau
172. Murray
239. Wade
N/A Pippen (outside 250)


[U]PPG[/U]

27. AD
43. Wade
31. Kyrie
92. Klay
95. Bosh
129. Jamison
165. Murray
195. Pau
224. Love
240. Pippen


[U]APG[/U]

83. Kyrie
98. Wade
112. Pippen
139. Mo
172. Murray[/Indent]



Murray, Klay and Pippen are easily the worst compared to Wade, AD, Kyrie, Love and Bosh.

Lebron's abnormal ball-dominance, bad fits, horrible chemistry, low-assist teams, and coaching carousal (uncoachable) has resulted in the most underachievement ever, such as losing the most ever with preseason favorites and Finals teams, or bevies of losses with all-star teammates, homecourt, and 1 or 2 seeds.

Otoh, the GOAT never lost in any of these scenarios, except 2 losses with all-stars in the baseball year and "migraine" year.

No pip? :ohwell:

[QUOTE=Axe;14970815]No pip? :ohwell:[/QUOTE]


You guys don't seem to understand that the only guys that team-hop are the guys that can't produce dynasties.. The guys that produce dynasties don't need to team-hop, and you guys punish them for this - you punish greatness., it's absurd... Curry is good enough to have a dynasty with just klay and so now he "needs" klay.. it's the dumbest shit anyone has ever said... Meanwhile, Lebron produces trash teams that mostly lose with every cast that he's given, yet you praise him for being a perennial loser regardless of cast.

To make his first playoffs in 2006 and 2007, Lebron needed an acquisition that was better than 1990 Pippen and the East all-star center, plus a great coach and better defensive rankings than the 1st three-peat Bulls

Otoh, Jordan made the playoffs with nothing and won his first playoff series with Pippen getting 10 ppg

Jordan also missed the playoffs playing with all star richard Hamilton and Jerry Stackhouse

[QUOTE=Lebron23;14970823]Jordan also missed the playoffs playing with all star richard Hamilton and Jerry Stackhouse[/QUOTE]


Rip wasn't an all-star and MJ added 18 more wins and met expectation,... So MJ always met expectation, while Lebron failed expectation in 2019 and 2021-2025... He also failed expectations by losing the most ever with preseason favorites (4 times) and Finals teams (6 times), and homecourt (3 times), and 1 or 2 seeds (5 times).. MJ never lost in these scenarios.

Btw, Rip was hurt for a lot of 2002, but the Wizards were 14-1 in the last 15 games that MJ and Rip played together that year, and MJ was basically red-hot and on pace to win the East before he got hurt in Game 46

[QUOTE=Axe;14970815]No pip? :ohwell:[/QUOTE]
No chip. :cry:

[QUOTE=Axe;14970829]No chip. :cry:[/QUOTE]


It's been confirmed that Pippen is worse than Lebron's sidekicks, since Lebron's sidekicks made the Finals without him (Kyrie, Wade, Love), while guys like AD, Wade, Kyrie and Love defeat Pippen statistically in PER, BPM, WS/48, PPG, efficiency, and APG (Kyrie, Wade)

Pippen never played above a Larry Nance or Iguodala level, but the winning spotlight inflated him to all-time status and media accolade... This is similar to many winning sidekicks that don't get All-NBA until they win titles like Pippen, Klay, Pau, Parker, Ginobili, Dumars and even Worthy... These lower-producing sidekicks contrast with elite producers that get All-NBA with no playoff success like Love, Bosh, or KAT.

1-9

[QUOTE=Axe;14970835]1-9[/QUOTE]


the only guys that team-hop are the guys that can't produce dynasties..

The guys that produce dynasties don't need to team-hop, and you guys punish them for this - you punish greatness!!!

Curry is good enough to have a dynasty with just klay and so now he "needs" klay.. Meanwhile, Lebron produces trash teams that mostly lose with every cast that he's given, yet you praise him for being a perennial loser regardless of cast.

To make his first playoffs in 2006 and 2007, Lebron needed an acquisition that was better than 1990 Pippen and the East all-star center, plus a great coach and better defensive rankings than the 1st three-peat Bulls

Otoh, Jordan made the playoffs with nothing and won his first playoff series with Pippen getting 10 ppg - he would obviously 3-peat with Lebron's help (the East all-star center and a player that was better than 1990 Pippen).

Remember, no playoff series won w/o tree trunk pippen.

05' HUGHES.................. 21.6 PER... 0.157 WS/48... 3.7 VORP... 4.3 BPM... 22/6/5.... 1st Team All-D
90' PIPPEN.................... 16.3 PER... 0.087 WS/48... 3.0 VORP... 1.8 BPM... 16/6/5.... No All-D



[QUOTE=Axe;14970844]Remember, no playoff series won w/o tree trunk pippen.[/QUOTE]


Remember, no playoffs without someone better than 1990 Pippen, or the East all-star center

Larry bird swept him in the playoffs as well.

[QUOTE=Axe;14970852]Larry bird swept him in the playoffs as well.[/QUOTE]


Jordan's lottery cast played the 86' Celtics closer than the champion super-team played the 14' Spurs.

So Jordan led a lottery cast to superior performance than Lebron had with Wade/Bosh/Allen

He went 1-3 against the bad boy pistons too.

Lol. The perfect topic to have 3ball frothing at the mouth all evening over.

But have Lebron ever won a playoff series with Scottie Pippen?

[QUOTE=Phoenix;14971036]Lol. The perfect topic to have 3ball frothing at the mouth all evening over.[/QUOTE]
He is literally incapable of not responding, whatever condition he has, he had to answer every single one of Axe's clear bait posts :lol

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Thread Cliffs

Jordan's first playoff teams were 1st year low seeds with zero development... Otoh, Lebron got 3 seasons to make the playoffs, so his first playoff teams were veteran high seeds that included the East all-star center and an acquisition that was better than 1990 Pippen on both sides of the ball - they also had higher-ranked defenses than the 1st three-peat Bulls... MJ would 3-peat quite easily with all that help, so Lebron's 1 Finals appearance is hardly "floor-raising" by comparison.

Furthermore, the 07' Spurs showed that the East was so weak that a 22 on 35% player won it (and 6 TO's).. The conference was so weak that Lebron, Iverson, Kidd and Dwight won it with 1-star teams despite averaging 25 ppg or less for the Eastern Playoffs - MJ never averaged less than 27 in any series.. By Lebron's 5th season, he had "floor-raised" the Cavs to 45 wins, but then he received another all-star spacer to open up things for his stiff arm in 2009... By 2010, Lebron had a 7th-year organic juggernaut and league favorite that included better defensive rankings than the 1st three-peat Bulls and more scoring options.. It's pretty nice to have a 20k scorer at 3rd option (Jamison) that was a better scorer than Pippen and outplayed Lebron heads-up in the 07' 1st Round.

Unfortunately for Lebron, his skillset of high-scoring, point guard-style play, aka "ball-domination" entails a bunch of unassisted buckets that reduces teammates' assists while increasing their assisted rate or spot up role... By turning everyone into spot-up shooter, elite roster construction is impossible for high-scoring ball-dominators, so they cannot be 1st option for the best basketball (dynasties and dominant champions).

Since ball-dominators cannot produce the best basketball, they're inferior to the best of other skillsets that can (bigs & jumpshooters), which puts Lebron and all ball-dominators outside of the top 10 all-time.. Specifically, anyone can select who they feel are the best jumpshooters and bigs in history and put them above all ball-dominators like Lebron.. So a hypothetical top 10 could be: MJ, Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Bird, Kobe, Duncan, Shaq, Curry, Jokic, Magic, Lebron, Oscar - that's a top 13 with ball-dominators bringing up the rear.

In addition to their inability to be 1st option for the best basketball (dynasties or dominant champions), high-scoring ball-dominators make it harder to win titles in general by virtue of the aforementioned lowering of teammate assists and having low assist teams, versus the high-assist teams and ball movement associated with the average title team.. Ultimately, the suboptimal style of ball-dominators underachieves rosters the most, such as Lebron going 3-4 with preseason favorites, 4-7 with all-star teammates, 4-6 with Finals teams, 4-5 with 1 or 2 seeds, and 3 losses with homecourt, while the GOAT standard is to [i]never[/i] lose in any of these scenarios.