This current brand of basketball is unrecognizable to me

I'm sorry I don't really give a f*ck if you call me an old man. This is not basketball we as we know it.

Traveling every other play, carrying every other play, quadruple step backs, the constant foul baiting, sometimes it is a foul, sometimes it's not. The refs don't give a f*ck whatsoever.

And that's just the officiating. That doesn't even speak to the level of play and how retarded the coaching is now. The game has been totally randomized. It used to be a team won because they played better and executed better. Now I'm not sure winning the game means anything at all. Since every team plays the same it really just boils down either to who's hitting their 3's or who's getting luckier with the calls.

And yes I already know a lot of young whippersnappers are going to tell me it was always like this and stop letting nostalgia cloud my judgement and blah blah blah. No the f*ck it wasn't.

There is something severely wrong going on with this league.

It feels like the better teams are gambling sometimes. They are willing to chuck threes against a lesser team even if they're not statistically the best shooters. The Wolves just beat the Lakers by double teaming and leaving shooters wide open on the three point line. Its worth the gamble to try to cause a turnover because it's only a 34-38% shot either way. You can't often stop a player from getting inside in this league because defense is illegal. Don't touch them or it's a foul. Players still don't force the foul call very much because they prefer longevity. I think these teams shoot too many threes most of the time though. They dream of a league where the players are shooting 50% from three but it will never happen. Putting the other teams players in foul trouble beats the chucking fest anytime I think.

True, it's a strange form of half-sport, half-entertainment.

Personally what really bugs [I]me[/I] is the hip hop played in arenas and the chubby dancers.

[QUOTE=90sgoat;14997888]True, it's a strange form of half-sport, half-entertainment.

Personally what really bugs [I]me[/I] is the hip hop played in arenas and the chubby dancers.[/QUOTE]
All the black players too, back in the 50's when we had Mikan, Cousy & Pettit running the show the sport was more pure.

Everyone in the league is just better nowadays.

[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents;14997892]All the black players too, back in the 50's when we had Mikan, Cousy & Pettit running the show the sport was more pure.[/QUOTE]

What can I say, I grew up with Guns N Roses, sexy skinny Laker girls (they still are, but only them) and white players like Dan Majerle.

It's been rough seeing the fall of white basketball.

[QUOTE=90sgoat;14997900]What can I say, I grew up with Guns N Roses, sexy skinny Laker girls (they still are, but only them) and white players like Dan Majerle.

It's been rough seeing the fall of white basketball.[/QUOTE]
:(

I always watch this to cheer me up about the situation.

[video=youtube;Fm6Qw3ou0kg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fm6Qw3ou0kg&ab_channel=MovieResidence[/video]

Op is not at all familiar with the [i]wilson[/i] brand? :kobe:

[Img]https://c.tenor.com/Fjgk3O1HrtEAAAAC/tenor.gif[/img]

[QUOTE=Baller234;14997873]I'm sorry I don't really give a f*ck if you call me an old man. This is not basketball we as we know it.

Traveling every other play, carrying every other play, quadruple step backs, the constant foul baiting, sometimes it is a foul, sometimes it's not. The refs don't give a f*ck whatsoever.[/QUOTE]

The players have taken it too far with the carrying/traveling. It's really over the top now.

But this is something that literally every generation of fans has been complaining about compared to their favorite era of watching for 30-40+ years.

Part of it is getting older and giving less of a **** about the sport in general but there is still a lot of validity to what you say as well. It's not without merit just because you're getting older.

[QUOTE=90sgoat;14997900]What can I say, I grew up with Guns N Roses, sexy skinny Laker girls (they still are, but only them) and white players like Dan Majerle.

It's been rough seeing the fall of white basketball.[/QUOTE]

Bruh, the best player in the league is white with a 4 inch vertical. Luka is top 3-5 when healthy. Last time the best player was white was mid 80s Bird, and I don't know if the league ever had two top 5 white players, maybe in the 40s and 50s. Once the Russells, Wilts, Kareems, Oscars and Dr.Js came in, it was over.

Several good-very good white players in the league now. Maybe you mean white 'Americans', but fear not. Cooper Flagg is coming to illuminate your life.

This video actually really looks into whether the OP is factual out or not.


[video=youtube_share;fp4but75EjY]https://youtu.be/fp4but75EjY?si=Mzk3TXUVdkpZGVp9[/video]

[QUOTE=999Guy;14997924]This video actually really looks into whether the OP is factual out or not.


[video=youtube_share;fp4but75EjY]https://youtu.be/fp4but75EjY?si=Mzk3TXUVdkpZGVp9[/video][/QUOTE]

Very interesting analysis.

The older game was a bit comical in its lack of precision and planning. IE: Suns posting up 2 people in the same spot. That would not happen today. Or that lazy deep 2 ptr by Pippen. There were more lower percentage / low return shots back then.

I sense what older players are responding to is that today's league is more structured- there are set plays.

The fact that centers back then clogged the paint meant there weren't as many dazzling drives to the hoop as we see today- that's one thing that stands out to me as a long-time fan is the sheer athleticism of today's players- their ball-handling, slashing, and finishing skills at the rim. Honestly, feel that in today's game we see a dozen plays in one game that 30 years ago, would make the Sportscenter top 10.

There are more 3's; there are less low return/low percentage deep 2's and forced shots.

Do these older players have any definition of 'creativity'? Interesting hearing Shaq speak of creativity of all people, given his game was often brute-force.

Interesting too at 4:05 that league rules that limited double teaming decades ago. Led to stagnant 1-1's in the older game without much defensive intensity or offensive creativity- almost like baseball - watching the pitcher and batter go at it while the rest just stood around.

A lot of these oldhead commentary like Paul Pierce saying no one today passes like Jason Kidd can just be dismissed easily without argument.

The oldheads can't even articulate their arguments, and get obliterated by Thinking Basketball's reason. I suspect for ego reasons they need to find something to complain about.

The one area today's game lacks is perimeter defense. Defenders lose cred if their man blows by them for a dunk, but don't if their man drains a three. So they tend to guard against the drive. The offensive game has changed and so must the defensive emphasis.

[QUOTE=90sgoat;14997900]What can I say, I grew up with Guns N Roses, sexy skinny Laker girls (they still are, but only them) and white players like Dan Majerle.

It's been rough seeing the fall of white basketball.[/QUOTE]

Compared to the 00s and 10s i think white basketball is on the rise. The Bulls having an exciting whites line up wasnt possible a few years ago

[QUOTE=Baller234;14997873]I'm sorry I don't really give a f*ck if you call me an old man. This is not basketball we as we know it.

Traveling every other play, carrying every other play, quadruple step backs, the constant foul baiting, sometimes it is a foul, sometimes it's not. The refs don't give a f*ck whatsoever.

And that's just the officiating. That doesn't even speak to the level of play and how retarded the coaching is now. The game has been totally randomized. It used to be a team won because they played better and executed better. Now I'm not sure winning the game means anything at all. Since every team plays the same it really just boils down either to who's hitting their 3's or who's getting luckier with the calls.

And yes I already know a lot of young whippersnappers are going to tell me it was always like this and stop letting nostalgia cloud my judgement and blah blah blah. No the f*ck it wasn't.

There is something severely wrong going on with this league.[/QUOTE]

What is retarded about the coaching today?

The officiating is completely inconsistent, and has degraded under Adam Silver- agree with that. It does impact games, sometimes decide them. We need to go back to standardization.

The Thinking Basketball video makes an interesting case that long 2's have become 3's. Not much different except one is higher points efficiency.

In my view the biggest officiating deficiency is not on offense with traveling etc. but on defense. Van Gundy pointed this out in post-up- the refs will just often mindlesslly allow the ball-handler to be mugged, and other times not. Sometimes refs will allow aggressive hand-checking, other times not. It allows coaches and players to game the system. As a fan you cant' help but feel ripped off when your team loses, because with their selective calls, the refs put their hand on the scale far too much in wins and losses.

[QUOTE=Baller234;14997873]I'm sorry I don't really give a f*ck if you call me an old man. This is not basketball we as we know it.

Traveling every other play, carrying every other play, quadruple step backs, the constant foul baiting, sometimes it is a foul, sometimes it's not. The refs don't give a f*ck whatsoever.

And that's just the officiating. That doesn't even speak to the level of play and how retarded the coaching is now. The game has been totally randomized. It used to be a team won because they played better and executed better. Now I'm not sure winning the game means anything at all. Since every team plays the same it really just boils down either to who's hitting their 3's or who's getting luckier with the calls.

And yes I already know a lot of young whippersnappers are going to tell me it was always like this and stop letting nostalgia cloud my judgement and blah blah blah. No the f*ck it wasn't.

There is something severely wrong going on with this league.[/QUOTE]

I'm an old head, too. And while I largely agree with you, I have to say this. The brand of basketball we're seeing this season & playoff season is an IMPROVEMENT over the previous 5 years of nba ball. The bigs are back. The high & low post is creeping back into play, spamming 3's incessantly seems to be on the slight decline, and physicality is back.

.

Yeah, there are positives to the latest NBA. Although the rules are relaxed, the referees are actually better at their job than they were in the past. People on this forum in the past decades always had a gripe about the refereeing being terrible. They were actually right much of the time. Today the refs will hear about their bad call on various forms of social media if they've messed anything up. The call challenges are also holding the referees accountable
The truth is the refereeing has been subpar during the regular season since forever. My timberwolves were held back many seasons with blatantly poor refereeing. Its one thing when you're bad but then just pile on bad refereeing that favors particular star players. The ballhog stars were born in a sense because the more they have the ball the more they get the calls. We don't have to worry about that today as much.

[QUOTE=bdonovan;14997930]What is retarded about the coaching today?[/QUOTE]

The total and utter reliance on the 3 point shot and having no plan B.

You see it in the pros and you even saw it in the national championship game with Florida/Houston. Teams will be down 1 or 2 in the last possession and all 5 gives are camped out beyond the perimeter. Not a single player is cutting to the basket.

The "analytics" dictate that you should keep shooting 3's because over the long term it's mathematically advantageous. Okay whatever, but that goes completely out the window when it's the final few moments of the game because [B]you no longer have the luxury of time[/B].

Yet even in the final moments these teams are gearing up to shoot 3's when they don't have to. It's mind boggling. It's like it's all they know.

[QUOTE=Wardell Curry;14997917]The players have taken it too far with the carrying/traveling. It's really over the top now.

But this is something that literally every generation of fans has been complaining about compared to their favorite era of watching for 30-40+ years.

Part of it is getting older and giving less of a **** about the sport in general but there is still a lot of validity to what you say as well. It's not without merit just because you're getting older.[/QUOTE]

I have to admit you're right when it comes to dribbling to some degree. During my lifetime I would say it started with Iverson, but I'm sure the boomers saw things in the 80's and 90's that you weren't allowed to do when they were kids.

A month ago I caught a Pistons game and the camera cut to Tim Hardaway Sr. The local announcer starts praising him and said WORD FOR WORD... "He had the best crossover dribble I've ever seen that wasn't a carry."

Not only he is right (Timmy's killer crossover is still king imo) but the fact that he had the gall to say this out loud on broadcast! It's like it's openly acknowledged!

People don't realize how much of an advantage you have when you are allowed to carry the ball. The defender has zero way of knowing if you're stopping or going and can never truly commit on defense. Same goes with challenging shots. God forbid you leave your feet.

The defender is always trapped in this constant guessing game.

NOT basketball!!!

I want to see a player from the 90s that do shit like this.

[video]https://youtube.com/shorts/GN8ns7Pc9rA?si=404P65tCObu_KJgR[/video]

The shooting evolution has been tremendous. You didn't even have to guard the 3 pt line in the 90s except against maybe 1 or 2 players in the starting lineup. Now you have guard 4-5 guys deep and some of them from like... half court. Like Trae and Curry and Dame and a bunch other players.

The skill level has increased but toughness decreased.

[QUOTE=tpols;14997968]I want to see a player from the 90s that do shit like this.

[video]https://youtube.com/shorts/GN8ns7Pc9rA?si=404P65tCObu_KJgR[/video][/QUOTE]

They probably can't do it because players today can't do that five times in a row.

That footage is faked.

[QUOTE=tpols;14997968]I want to see a player from the 90s that do shit like this.

[video]https://youtube.com/shorts/GN8ns7Pc9rA?si=404P65tCObu_KJgR[/video]

The shooting evolution has been tremendous. You didn't even have to guard the 3 pt line in the 90s except against maybe 1 or 2 players in the starting lineup. Now you have guard 4-5 guys deep and some of them from like... half court. Like Trae and Curry and Dame and a bunch other players.

The skill level has increased but toughness decreased.[/QUOTE]

This. How do you cover someone who is an elite passer, ballhandler and can shoot 40+% from 35+ feet?

[url=https://freeimage.host/][img]https://iili.io/3WOokBV.webp[/img][/url]

Not to mention there are multiple ballhandlers in lineups and passing has gotten better, offball movement is more advanced. Most shooting guards from the past like Hornacek and Reggie Miller aren’t going to fill a pg role in pinch. The sf’s and sg’s who could do that were considered elite.

[QUOTE=tpols;14997968]I want to see a player from the 90s that do shit like this.

[video]https://youtube.com/shorts/GN8ns7Pc9rA?si=404P65tCObu_KJgR[/video]

The shooting evolution has been tremendous. You didn't even have to guard the 3 pt line in the 90s except against maybe 1 or 2 players in the starting lineup. Now you have guard 4-5 guys deep and some of them from like... half court. Like Trae and Curry and Dame and a bunch other players.

The skill level has increased but toughness decreased.[/QUOTE]

Skill level hasn't increased. These players are better at shooting but almost nothing else. Back then teams had specialists at every position. Now nobody is a specialist. Remove the 3 point line and like 80% of the league becomes instantly useless.

This isn't an "evolution" of the game. The coaches just figured out how to exploit the rules and now it's a different game entirely.

There are two solutions:

- Move back the 3 a good few feet (This would also require expanding the width of the court)

- Get rid of the 3 and go back to the way the game was intended to be played

Traveling is what I have a problem with.

If these dudes are more skilled why are they traveling so much? Dribbling is a skill.

Call the traveling and the game is alright.

even bird/majic era ... scores were going down , and the fan base wanted a more flowing game , more points to show off offensive plays.
This sport OP is based now on offense (.)

I just want to remind OP that these athletes are paid handsomely , which also means that they take off 2-3 weeks a year , otherwise they will lose everything they have trained for.
Does every one know that each of these players , like a top of the keep free throw jumper , typically has a player take thousands of practice shots to hone their skill level.

We have some of the best shooters ever in the history of the game =right now.
If the average score was 130 points per game , the league would swing back to some defensive requirements ... hand and forearm checking.
I under stand about the carrying the ball at dribble.. but they are encouraging more flow of the game , by having guys like Joker and Giannis bring the ball up ...
This is not Steve Nash era.. .buddy

[QUOTE]Get rid of the 3 and go back to the way the game was intended to be played[/QUOTE]


The 3pt line has been around since 1979. Likely before you ever even watched a game of basketball. It's not new. It's been around for the entire modern era of basketball.

What it is... is you are mad current generation is actually taking advantage of it to score way more efficiently. The long 2pt shot used to be a staple in the 90s. And it's stupid shot because if you step back a couple feet you get a 50% point bonus. That's a lot and adds up.

It's not today's eras fault you guys liked goon ball so much. I will admit watching the brawls and stuff is fun and exciting for sure. Makes for a more intriguing viewing. But that doesn't mean they were better at basketball. It means they were better at beating each other up. :lol

[QUOTE=tpols;14997983]The 3pt line has been around since 1979. Likely before you ever even watched a game of basketball. It's not new. It's been around for the entire modern era of basketball.

What it is... is you are mad current generation is actually taking advantage of it to score way more efficiently. The long 2pt shot used to be a staple in the 90s. And it's stupid shot because if you step back a couple feet you get a 50% point bonus. That's a lot and adds up.

It's not today's eras fault you guys liked goon ball so much. I will admit watching the brawls and stuff is fun and exciting for sure. Makes for a more intriguing viewing. But that doesn't mean they were better at basketball. It means they were better at beating each other up. :lol[/QUOTE]

The 3point line has been around since 79 but nobody figured out how it could be exploited. It was integrated naturally into the game. There ARE purists who saw it as an abomination from the start though.

There's no good reason why you should be rewarded with more points just because you shot the ball from 23 feet instead of 22 feet. The job of the defense is to force the offense into a low percentage shot, so you shouldn't be punished for that. All the 3pt line does is reward low percentage shots.

Now you'll probably counter that with "Well it's a tougher shot to make so it should count for more points"... except it's no longer a tough shot. Back then only the best of the best shooters were capable. Now the entire team can make that same shot with ease. So if it's not even that difficult of a shot, why is it being rewarded?

When the 3pt shot is just a routine shot anyone can make, something has to change.

I don’t know why the game has to be so fixed and standardized.

Why can’t we have games without a 3 point line and some games with one?

I wanna see what allowing goal tending would look like. No 3 seconds and teams actually used “goalies”.

Basketball could be some much more interesting if they floated around and played with different rule sets game to game.

To be fair, Lakers vs Minny and Denver vs Clippers has been almost as good as I remember from the 90s. I would say its the best its been since the time of Heat vs Spurs.

If they could only get rid of the defensive 3 seconds, I think they would have a legit game again.

[QUOTE=90sgoat;14997900]What can I say, I grew up with Guns N Roses, sexy skinny Laker girls (they still are, but only them) and white players like Dan Majerle.

It's been rough seeing the fall of white basketball.[/QUOTE]
I think the funniest thing about this comment is that Guns N' Roses guitarist/most popular member of the band is black.

[QUOTE=RRR3;14998134]I think the funniest thing about this comment is that Guns N' Roses guitarist/most popular member of the band is black.[/QUOTE]

[I]Half[/I]

[QUOTE=Baller234;14997873]I'm sorry I don't really give a f*ck if you call me an old man. This is not basketball we as we know it.

Traveling every other play, carrying every other play, quadruple step backs, the constant foul baiting, sometimes it is a foul, sometimes it's not. The refs don't give a f*ck whatsoever.

And that's just the officiating. That doesn't even speak to the level of play and how retarded the coaching is now. The game has been totally randomized. It used to be a team won because they played better and executed better. Now I'm not sure winning the game means anything at all. Since every team plays the same it really just boils down either to who's hitting their 3's or who's getting luckier with the calls.

And yes I already know a lot of young whippersnappers are going to tell me it was always like this and stop letting nostalgia cloud my judgement and blah blah blah. No the f*ck it wasn't.

There is something severely wrong going on with this league.[/QUOTE]
and you kids

[img] https://media.tenor.com/84biKh8ihlIAAAAM/get-off-my-lawn.gif[/img]

[QUOTE=90sgoat;14998109]To be fair, Lakers vs Minny and Denver vs Clippers has been almost as good as I remember from the 90s. I would say its the best its been since the time of Heat vs Spurs.

If they could only get rid of the defensive 3 seconds, I think they would have a legit game again.[/QUOTE]

Bro these games are awful. Some of the games have been competitive sure but the teams themselves are awful to watch. Every player is just heaving a prayer, even during crunch time.

Kawhi is one of the most skilled guys in the league, can kill you from anywhere... and even he is not above shooting a TERRIBLE three with under 2 minutes left with a tie score.

[QUOTE=90sgoat;14998186][I]Half[/I][/QUOTE]
And? You still hate him either way.

[QUOTE=RRR3;14998412]And? You still hate him either way.[/QUOTE]

Not at all.

You got me all wrong, I am only racist so far that I like to see people who look like me do things I like to see and listen to.

I don't have a problem with any black, yellow, brown person, I just want a fair shake for whites.

[QUOTE=Baller234;14998381]Bro these games are awful. Some of the games have been competitive sure but the teams themselves are awful to watch. Every player is just heaving a prayer, even during crunch time.

Kawhi is one of the most skilled guys in the league, can kill you from anywhere... and even he is not above shooting a TERRIBLE three with under 2 minutes left with a tie score.[/QUOTE]

I know what you mean, but I am entertained. Sure, it doesn't have the tactics and decisiveness of the 90s, but it's better than nothing.