Who wins in a 7 game series?
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Who wins in a 7 game series?
The one without Westbrick.
But seriously this team is way deeper. No question on this one.
[QUOTE=AlternativeAcc.;15010040]The one without Westbrick.
But seriously this team is way deeper. No question on this one.[/QUOTE]
I would probably go with 2025 as well, but that 2012 team was no joke.
One of the most shocking outcomes for me as a fan was watching OKC in 2012 win 4 straight against the Spurs after being down 0-2 to start the series. The Spurs that season were juggernauts. Started the playoffs with a 10-0 record, many people including myself at least had them making the Finals that year.
You could make a valid argument the current OKC Big 3 is as good, if not better than the 2012 one, Williams is much more conducive to winning than Westbrook is, Holmgren is unlikely to disappear like Harden does every single year in the playoffs, and SGA and 2012 KD are both in the same tier in the league, both consensus top 2 guys. You add in the insane depth the current team has, I would go with them.
The 2012's team run was far more impressive though, they knocked off the 2 previous champs with ease, then came back from 2-0 on a Spurs team on a 20 game win streak that would go on to win the conference, and nearly the title, the next 2 years. And the Heat take an absolute dump on the Pacers.
[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents;15010043]You could make a valid argument the current OKC Big 3 is as good, if not better than the 2012 one, Williams is much more conducive to winning than Westbrook is, Holmgren is unlikely to disappear like Harden does every single year in the playoffs, and SGA and 2012 KD are both in the same tier in the league, both consensus top 2 guys. You add in the insane depth the current team has, I would go with them.
The 2012's team run was far more impressive though, they knocked off the 2 previous champs with ease, then came back from 2-0 on a Spurs team on a 20 game win streak that would go on to win the conference, and nearly the title, the next 2 years. And the Heat take an absolute dump on the Pacers.[/QUOTE]
the big 3 sure i guess. but the overall team is far better and the big 3 are a much better fit, for one, kd/russ/harden are all wings/guards, their positions/playstyle overlapped. this current team's big 3 is so well balanced it works perfectly. plus they have defensive specialists and their overall defensive depth is deep. who was 2012's defensive specialist? sefalosha? :oldlol:
[QUOTE=highwhey;15010044]the big 3 sure i guess. but the overall team is far better and the big 3 are a much better fit, for one, kd/russ/harden are all wings/guards, their positions/playstyle overlapped. this current team's big 3 is so well balanced it works perfectly. plus they have defensive specialists and their overall defensive depth is deep. who was 2012's defensive specialist? sefalosha? :oldlol:[/QUOTE]
Ibaka. Even though I always felt he was overrated defensively.
3 Season MVPs
VS
1 Season MVP.
[QUOTE=highwhey;15010044]the big 3 sure i guess. but the overall team is far better and the big 3 are a much better fit, for one, kd/russ/harden are all wings/guards, their positions/playstyle overlapped. this current team's big 3 is so well balanced it works perfectly. plus they have defensive specialists and their overall defensive depth is deep. who was 2012's defensive specialist? sefalosha? :oldlol:[/QUOTE]
Yep, that's a point I meant to include, the current Big 3 is far more cohesive than the 2012 one. Once you have a player like SGA/KD, Williams & Chet bring far more value than Westbrook & Harden do.
[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;15010045]Ibaka. Even though I always felt he was overrated defensively.[/QUOTE]
forgot about ibaka, if i remember he was just a good shot blocker right?
[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents;15010048]Yep, that's a point I meant to include, the current Big 3 is far more cohesive than the 2012 one. Once you have a player like SGA/KD, Williams & Chet bring far more value than Westbrook & Harden do.[/QUOTE] yep, they fill out those positions of need very well. sam presti deserves a lot of credit here, building a team like this requires a lot of prudence and luck.
[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents;15010048]Yep, that's a point I meant to include, the current Big 3 is far more cohesive than the 2012 one. Once you have a player like SGA/KD, Williams & Chet bring far more value than Westbrook & Harden do.[/QUOTE]
As much as I like to hate on westbrick some of yall are tripping. In his prime he was definitely better than Jalen Williams. By a considerable amount. And KD > SGA. This current team is only better because of their depth. They have no weaknesses to pick on like that baby thunder team, but that 2012 team had more top end talent.
[QUOTE=highwhey;15010049]forgot about ibaka, if i remember he was just a good shot blocker right?[/QUOTE]
Yea, insane shot blocker and was an overall positive on the defensive end, but not the best post defender, his overall basketball IQ was lacking in general in his OKC days. I remember Nick Collison being the better man to man post defender of the two.
[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;15010052]Yea, insane shot blocker and was an overall positive on the defensive end, but not the best post defender, his overall basketball IQ was lacking in general in his OKC days. I remember Nick Collison being the better man to man post defender of the two.[/QUOTE]
damn you're taking me back haha, was a fan of nick collison, just solid overall.
[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?397764-Serge-Ibaka-What-the-hell-happened-to-this-guy[/url]
:lol
[QUOTE=tpols;15010051]As much as I like to hate on westbrick some of yall are tripping. In his prime he was definitely better than Jalen Williams. By a considerable amount. And KD > SGA. This current team is only better because of their depth. They have no weaknesses to pick on like that baby thunder team, but that 2012 team had more top end talent.[/QUOTE]
Westbrook is for sure more talented and will put up much better production, but when I already have a top 2 player/30 ppg scorer? I would honestly rather have an all around guy like Williams than Westbrook.
And you could definitely argue current SGA is better than 23 year old KD, who outside of scoring really hadn't developed the other parts of his game yet.
2012 has the perfect team to beat the 2025.
Durant would rain buckets on Caruso in the midrange. Harden would flop his way around Dort or shoot stepback 3s in the face of Shai. Westbrook would run up and down the floor to match them. Adams would bully ball Chet. Ibaka would cover on defense.
People forget how good that 2012 team was and how they were a few bad calls from going 7 games against the Heatles.
[QUOTE=90sgoat;15010061]2012 has the perfect team to beat the 2025.
Durant would rain buckets on Caruso in the midrange. Harden would flop his way around Dort or shoot stepback 3s in the face of Shai. Westbrook would run up and down the floor to match them. [B]Adams would bully ball Chet.[/B] Ibaka would cover on defense.
People forget how good that 2012 team was and how they were a few bad calls from going 7 games against the Heatles.[/QUOTE]
Adams wasn't on that team.
Also we have to talk about their roads. Having to beat the best peak version of Lebron James and still prime Wade with a filled out roster is much tougher than Haliburton / Siakam and bum Antman + Randle. Jokic is the only one who put up a fight but he got sand bagged by his own teammates.
[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;15010062]Adams wasn't on that team.[/QUOTE]
Ah yes, Perkins.
People shouldnt talk about 2012 Westbrook like he was some net negative :lol
To me it seems like SGA isnt quite there yet when actually challenged, in pressure tight games against equal competition... he didnt look takeover against the Nuggets.
Thats where 2012 KD is clearly ahead.
And Harden/Russ had step-on-throat mentality.
I dunno, this OKC team is very deep and athletic, and so good defensively, but 2012 OKC wasnt far behind in depth and similar in athleticism, and have more star power and clutch factor to me.
This OKC team is unproven and we saw that in the Nuggets series.
They ran away with game 7. If it would have been close, I dont trust them to come through the same way Id trust 2012 OKC.
I guess OP ran out of reddit posts to make threads about. :confusedshrug:
It's an interesting match-up. I think if you just put the two teams in a vacuum and have them meet, the 2025 team maybe wins in 7. If you have them go through their respective playoff runs with the teams they faced, the 2012 team is more battle-tested and primed for what the 2025 Thunder would throw at them. The 2012 Thunder swept the defending champion Mavs, gentleman swept the Lakers who won the title 2 years prior, and beat the Spurs in 6 who would make the finals the next year and win it all 2 years later.
I think 2025 is deeper. Perk would be played off the floor, putting Ibaka at the 5. Shai vs. Westbrook would be fun to watch. Dort on KD would be hell, but KD would get his.
Would actually be a fun matchup.
[QUOTE=ArbitraryWater;15010068]People shouldnt talk about 2012 Westbrook like he was some net negative :lol
To me it seems like SGA isnt quite there yet when actually challenged, in pressure tight games against equal competition... he didnt look takeover against the Nuggets.
Thats where 2012 KD is clearly ahead.
And Harden/Russ had step-on-throat mentality.
I dunno, this OKC team is very deep and athletic, and so good defensively, but 2012 OKC wasnt far behind in depth and similar in athleticism, and have more star power and clutch factor to me.
This OKC team is unproven and we saw that in the Nuggets series.
They ran away with game 7. If it would have been close, I dont trust them to come through the same way Id trust 2012 OKC.[/QUOTE]
How was the 2012 Thunder more proven than the current Thunder? The 2011 Thunder lost in 5 to peak Dirk and the Mavs the year prior. KD was 23, Harden 22, and they were way less deep and Hartenstein/Chet shit on Perk/Ibaka.
Why do you keep bringing up the Denver series as if going to 7 with a proven championship team and the best player in the world, possibly top 5 all-time talent at his peak, and winning convincingly in game 7 is a negative indictment? :lol
The 2012 Thunder didn't come through. LeBron bullied them and Wesrbrick shot them out of games. They lost in 5 and their defense wasn't close to the current Thunder.
KD was better than Shai as a scorer, but Shai is a better playmaker and defender, and the rest of the group is head and shoulders better.
[QUOTE=AlternativeAcc.;15010133]How was the 2012 Thunder more proven than the current Thunder? The 2011 Thunder lost in 5 to peak Dirk and the Mavs the year prior. KD was 23, Harden 22, and they were way less deep and Hartenstein/Chet shit on Perk/Ibaka.
Why do you keep bringing up the Denver series as if going to 7 with a proven championship team and the best player in the world, possibly top 5 all-time talent at his peak, and winning convincingly in game 7 is a negative indictment? :lol
The 2012 Thunder didn't come through. LeBron bullied them and Wesrbrick shot them out of games. They lost in 5 and their defense wasn't close to the current Thunder.
KD was better than Shai as a scorer, but Shai is a better playmaker and defender, and the rest of the group is head and shoulders better.[/QUOTE]
Who would you pick between 2012 Miami Heat or 2025 OKC?
They haven't faced a beast like that in this year's playoffs like 2012 Thunder had to face.
[QUOTE=tpols;15010135]Who would you pick between 2012 Miami Heat or 2025 OKC?
They haven't faced a beast like that in this year's playoffs like 2012 Thunder had to face.[/QUOTE]
I agree, but the 2012 Thunder weren't an all-time great team on paper.
The 2025 Thunder have the 2nd best net rating of all time and one of the best defenses ever.
I think the 2025 Thunder go more than 5 games with 2012 Heat ... that same Heat team were down 3-2 to the old Celtics
If both teams are equally as inexperienced, im rolling with the one who is all-time great on paper, and doesn't have massive liabilities like Perkins or Westbrick in the clutch.
Also KD at that time wasn't a great playmaker or defender - Shai is clearly better than 2012 KD in that department with low turnovers. This current team would feast on Westbrick and Durant turnovers, and completely overwhelm them with depth and defense. Harden would fold up like a tent like we saw against Miamis perimeter D.
yeah, you guys are wild for thinking 2012 would beat the 25 team. this is one of the most balanced and deep teams ever assembled.
Not only are the Thunder significantly better on defense than the 2012 Thunder, but they have 7 guys who averaged > 10ppg during the season, and thats not including Wallace or Caruso who shit on any bench player on the 2012 Thunder. 2012 had 3 guys average over 10ppg.
2012 Thunder were a top heavy team, the current Thunder are almost as top heavy but have all-time great depth and 8 or so legit 2-way players compared to 2012s team who had zero.
Shai, Jdub, and Chet are worse offensively than 2012s version but they all play much better defense.
[QUOTE=AlternativeAcc.;15010133]How was the 2012 Thunder more proven than the current Thunder? The 2011 Thunder lost in 5 to peak Dirk and the Mavs the year prior. KD was 23, Harden 22, and they were way less deep and Hartenstein/Chet shit on Perk/Ibaka.
Why do you keep bringing up the Denver series as if going to 7 with a proven championship team and the best player in the world, possibly top 5 all-time talent at his peak, and winning convincingly in game 7 is a negative indictment? :lol
The 2012 Thunder didn't come through. LeBron bullied them and Wesrbrick shot them out of games. They lost in 5 and their defense wasn't close to the current Thunder.
KD was better than Shai as a scorer, but Shai is a better playmaker and defender, and the rest of the group is head and shoulders better.[/QUOTE]
Denver was a great team but theyre pretty much just Jokic and Gordon right now. When OKC got challenged in that series, they looked very human.
They were down big in 4th quarters of game 4 and 5, and relied on bail-outs/chokes.
2012 OKC beat the champion Mavs, the Lakers, and then the 62-win pace Spurs(lockout season).
They also made the WCF the year before.
Hows that for proven? How are they NOT more proven than current OKC? :D
I could care less that 2012 OKC lost to the Heat. This is about OKC vs. OKC. Id expect this OKC to lose to the 2012 Heat too.
Their fanbase keeps getting more and more redneck.
I vote 2012... that team was dangerous.
[QUOTE=ArbitraryWater;15010068]People shouldnt talk about 2012 Westbrook like he was some net negative :lol
To me it seems like SGA isnt quite there yet when actually challenged, in pressure tight games against equal competition... he didnt look takeover against the Nuggets.
Thats where 2012 KD is clearly ahead.
And Harden/Russ had step-on-throat mentality.
I dunno, this OKC team is very deep and athletic, and so good defensively, but 2012 OKC wasnt far behind in depth and similar in athleticism, and have more star power and clutch factor to me.
This OKC team is unproven and we saw that in the Nuggets series.
They ran away with game 7. If it would have been close, I dont trust them to come through the same way Id trust 2012 OKC.[/QUOTE]
Lol. We actually have braindead morons itb, case in point the obsessed psychopath below you, who still thinks that westbrook has been elite in 2022[url=https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTgJlaYykOeriV0g-CmztDbyLIB7OzQHuDISg&usqp=CAU].[/url]
The 2025 Thunder are easily better. SGA is better than 2012 KD. Much better playmaker and defender. Westbrook is better than J-Dub maybe... Definitely better on O because of playmaking but J-Dub is such a beast on D. And then the depth of the current Thunder is just insane. I will hold back on praise a bit until after the finals because ultimately that will determine a lot but this current Thunder team looks like a historically great team whereas 2012 OKC was just an average team that made the Finals.
[QUOTE=dankok8;15010296]The 2025 Thunder are easily better. SGA is better than 2012 KD. Much better playmaker and defender. Westbrook is better than J-Dub maybe... Definitely better on O because of playmaking but J-Dub is such a beast on D. And then the depth of the current Thunder is just insane. I will hold back on praise a bit until after the finals because ultimately that will determine a lot but this current Thunder team looks like a historically great team whereas 2012 OKC was just an average team that made the Finals.[/QUOTE]
i would not say the 2012 OKC was average or even mid, but i do agree that the 25 team is so deep and well balanced that they would edge out the 2012. there isn't a doubt in my mind that they are more well rounded and have the talent in all the right places.
2025 would win. Then the next year Durant would join the 2025 team after losing to them in the Finals.
current team plays lockdown D
harden and westbrook will get clamped by dort and caruso so they just need to survive kd, who'd light them up. very doable.
[QUOTE=dankok8;15010296]The 2025 Thunder are easily better. [B]SGA is better than 2012 KD.[/B] Much better playmaker and defender. Westbrook is better than J-Dub maybe... Definitely better on O because of playmaking but J-Dub is such a beast on D. And then the depth of the current Thunder is just insane. I will hold back on praise a bit until after the finals because ultimately that will determine a lot but this current Thunder team looks like a historically great team whereas 2012 OKC was just an average team that made the Finals.[/QUOTE]
Nooo no no no no no.. :oldlol:
I'll take the 12 thunder. A young Westbrook was crazy fun to watch.
[QUOTE=ArbitraryWater;15010312]Nooo no no no no no.. :oldlol:[/QUOTE]
You go after that, but leave out where he said 2012 OKC was an "average" team :lol
KD hadn't fully developed his game by 2012, SGA is unquestionably a much better playmaker and defender than KD was at that point, and even when accounting for a faster pace, still averages over 30 a game. Even if you think that version of KD is better, it certainly doesn't warrant a laughing emoji response, they're at least comparable players imo.
What you guys think right now?
The 2012 team clearly had.more talent. Their big 3 shits on 2025 version. And they had DPOY talent Ibaka on top of it.
This thunder team would've got smoked by prime Lebron Wade Bosh and Shane Battier. They might not have survived old Kobe.
[video=youtube_share;xtO4koq7QrA]https://youtu.be/xtO4koq7QrA?si=upxjdEszwdgNzcZI[/video]
That was the Black Mambas last playoff game. If only Harden showed up in the Finals. He looked great out west.
[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents;15010315]You go after that, but leave out where he said 2012 OKC was an "average" team :lol
KD hadn't fully developed his game by 2012, SGA is unquestionably a much better playmaker and defender than KD was at that point, and even when accounting for a faster pace, still averages over 30 a game. Even if you think that version of KD is better, it certainly doesn't warrant a laughing emoji response, they're at least comparable players imo.[/QUOTE]
I didn't mean to say they were an average team but an average NBA finalist. Sorry for the confusion.