Who wins in a best of 7 series? I got Miami in 5
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Who wins in a best of 7 series? I got Miami in 5
There is no way I'm picking OKC against a peak LeBron with that cast after how I just saw OKC struggle against Denver & Indiana. :oldlol:
[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;15016739]There is no way I'm picking OKC against a peak LeBron with that cast after how I just saw OKC struggle against Denver & Indiana. :oldlol:[/QUOTE]
The heat struggled against Boston in 2012 and Pacers in 2013 who were both worse than Denver and this years Pacers.
I think it'd be a tight series. There are not many teams you can day would just run through OKC.
[QUOTE=AlternativeAcc.;15016748]The heat struggled against Boston in 2012 and Pacers in 2013 who were both worse than Denver and this years Pacers.
I think it'd be a tight series. There are not many teams you can day would just run through OKC.[/QUOTE]
I feel like those 2012-2014 Indiana team have become underrated as the years have passed. They were a force on the defensive end.
Wade also played injured in that 2013 Indiana series. Bosh missed 4 games vs Boston in 2012.
[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;15016749]I feel like those 2012-2014 Indiana team have become underrated as the years have passed. They were a force on the defensive end.
Wade also played injured in that 2013 Indiana series. Bosh missed 4 games vs Boston in 2012.[/QUOTE]
And OKC is an all-time force on defense lol.
They have multiple guys they can throw at LeBron and Chet/Hart in the paint. I would actually probably favor OKC slightly honestly because of depth.
Since this is the 2012 version of the Heat with a better Wade and ultra focused and motivated Lebron you gotta favor them over this OKC team.
We are talking about Peak Lebron here, Caruso/Dort isn't going to be a problem for him. Miami had a great defense too, it's not an ideal matchup for OKC.
The 2025 Thunder are a better team if you trust the metrics. I'd go with them in 6/7 games. The Thunder have a major edge on the bench. Obviously Lebron is better than Shai but the game isn't played 1 v 1.
[QUOTE=dankok8;15016756]The 2025 Thunder are a better team if you trust the metrics. I'd go with them in 6/7 games. The Thunder have a major edge on the bench. Obviously Lebron is better than Shai but the game isn't played 1 v 1.[/QUOTE]
This. Peak LeBron was actually 2016-2018 and he narrowly won one ring due to juggernaut teams in that span. Almost lost to 2013 Spurs as well.
Pacers played OKC to the brink because of 3pt shooting, depth, and coaching. All of which the 2012 Heat were much worse than current Pacers.
[QUOTE=dankok8;15016756]The 2025 Thunder are a better team if you trust the metrics. I'd go with them in 6/7 games. The Thunder have a major edge on the bench. Obviously Lebron is better than Shai but the game isn't played 1 v 1.[/QUOTE]
OKC very likely just loses to Indiana.
Unless you think this Pacers team is right up there with the 2012 Heat, this is a silly belief to have.
[QUOTE=AlternativeAcc.;15016748]The heat struggled against Boston in 2012 and Pacers in 2013 who were both worse than Denver and this years Pacers.
I think it'd be a tight series. There are not many teams you can day would just run through OKC.[/QUOTE]
They stomped the Pacers after going down 1-2. Were never seriously troubled. 3 straight blowouts. And the Pacers had the 5th best league record believe it or not. Better than these Pacers.
They only struggled with Boston and thats easily explainable.
[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;15016739]There is no way I'm picking OKC against a peak LeBron with that cast after how I just saw OKC struggle against Denver & Indiana. :oldlol:[/QUOTE]
Lebron repeats his 2011 worst choke job of all time. OKC's defense would make him mentally crumble.
OKC in 5.
[QUOTE=AlternativeAcc.;15016751]And OKC is an all-time force on defense lol.
[B]They have multiple guys they can throw at LeBron and Chet/Hart in the paint[/B]. I would actually probably favor OKC slightly honestly because of depth.[/QUOTE]
This is peak LeBron we're speaking about. Not to mention, Miami was also a deep team. Miller-Battier-Allen-Andersen off the bench? Not to mention being top heavy with LeBron-Wade-Bosh. Even if we were to argue that OKC has more depth (which I'm not convinced about), then the distance isn't that great between them.
Miami also won 66 games in 2013. They're one of the greatest teams of all time.
[QUOTE=Carbine;15016753]Since this is the 2012 version of the Heat with a better Wade and ultra focused and motivated Lebron you gotta favor them over this OKC team.
We are talking about Peak Lebron here, Caruso/Dort isn't going to be a problem for him. Miami had a great defense too, it's not an ideal matchup for OKC.[/QUOTE]
Not really. 2012 Heat almost lost to a Celtics team that was bottom 5 offensively. This OKC squad is better on both ends.
[QUOTE=ImKobe;15016782]Not really. 2012 Heat almost lost to a Celtics team that was bottom 5 offensively. This OKC squad is better on both ends.[/QUOTE]
It happens. Bosh missed 4 games in that series but all time great teams being pushed to 7 games isn't something unheard of tbh. The '92 Bulls were a 67 win team and went to 7 games against the Knicks who were a 51 win team.
The 2000 Lakers team were pushed to 5 games in the 1st round (the league hadn't extended the series to 7 games back then) against Sacramento if you recall. The Kings were a 44 win team that season.
The 2008 Celtics got taken to 7 games multiple times that PS if I'm not mistaken; and that was a 66 win defensive juggernaut.
[QUOTE=HoopsNY;15016784]It happens. Bosh missed 4 games in that series but all time great teams being pushed to 7 games isn't something unheard of tbh. The '92 Bulls were a 67 win team and went to 7 games against the Knicks who were a 51 win team.
The 2000 Lakers team were pushed to 5 games in the 1st round (the league hadn't extended the series to 7 games back then) against Sacramento if you recall. The Kings were a 44 win team that season.
The 2008 Celtics got taken to 7 games multiple times that PS if I'm not mistaken; and that was a 66 win defensive juggernaut.[/QUOTE]
For sure, OKC is much younger and more athletic though and led by a player who can match Lebron's scoring output, and they have the advantage at the 5. '12 Celtics were an old team that had to play a tough lockout season schedule with a lot of B2Bs in the RS and only 1 day rest between Playoff games.
I said it in the game thread, but this years OKC team reminds me of the 2015 Warriors. Great regular season, the MVP, but just looked like the lights of the playoffs were a little bright for them on their first true deep playoff run. And both obv benefitted immensely from injury.
I think there's a good chance they lose to the Pacers if Haliburton doesn't get hurt last night, the Heat with a peak LeBron would be my pick.
Heat have more talent but less chemistry and comraderie together. Overall I do think they would win because OKC is too small and Wade + Lebron >> SGA + Jalen. Miamis role players are also getting underrated. They had a team of snipers and defenders past their Big 3 too. Shane Battier was one of the best perimeter defenders in the NBA and he was on fire from 3 in 2012 NBA Finals.
[QUOTE=tpols;15016799]Heat have more talent but less chemistry and comraderie together. Overall I do think they would win because OKC is too small and Wade + Lebron >> SGA + Jalen. Miamis role players are also getting underrated. They had a team of snipers and defenders past their Big 3 too. Shane Battier was one of the best perimeter defenders in the NBA and he was on fire from 3 in 2012 NBA Finals.[/QUOTE]
Very well constructed team.
If Wade would have turned it up more theyd be a GOAT tier team.
OKC is lowkey fools gold. We saw this here (very unimpressive finals) and against Denver.
[QUOTE=HoopsNY;15016779]This is peak LeBron we're speaking about. Not to mention, Miami was also a deep team. Miller-Battier-Allen-Andersen off the bench? Not to mention being top heavy with LeBron-Wade-Bosh. Even if we were to argue that OKC has more depth (which I'm not convinced about), then the distance isn't that great between them.
Miami also won 66 games in 2013. They're one of the greatest teams of all time.[/QUOTE]
This OKC would get smoked by a healthy 2013 Miami team.
Anderson was an underrated pick up for them that year. He gave them some needed rim protection. That team also had shooters everywhere.
On paper, you could say OKC is just as good, but we saw their inexperience at times lose them games.
[QUOTE=ArbitraryWater;15016800]Very well constructed team.
If Wade would have turned it up more theyd be a GOAT tier team.
OKC is lowkey fools gold. We saw this here (very unimpressive finals) and against Denver.[/QUOTE]
Wade balled out in the 2012 playoffs. He was still having 40 points playoff games against top ranked defenses.
[QUOTE=tpols;15016806]Wade balled out in the 2012 playoffs. He was still having 40 points playoff games against top ranked defenses.[/QUOTE]
He balled out against the Pacers. That was it. He averaged 23 pts on 19 shots. No 3s. He took too big of a step back that year. Pacers 2nd half of the series seemed to be the last time he was able to turn it up to Superstar level in his career.
[QUOTE=ArbitraryWater;15016807]He balled out against the Pacers. That was it. He averaged 23 pts on 19 shots. No 3s. He took too big of a step back that year. Pacers 2nd half of the series seemed to be the last time he was able to turn it up to Superstar level in his career.[/QUOTE]
The only reason he "took a step back" was to not step on Lebrons toes and have another 2011 situation happen. He willingly took backseat for chemistry purposes. Wades athleticism didn't start to fail him til late 2013 when he hurt his leg.
[QUOTE=tpols;15016820]The only reason he "took a step back" was to not step on Lebrons toes and have another 2011 situation happen. He willingly took backseat for chemistry purposes. Wades athleticism didn't start to fail him til late 2013 when he hurt his leg.[/QUOTE]
Well then he took way too big of a step back cause his play nearly caused the ECF to go awry and they def could have used more big games in the Finals too.
Clearly you should step up when the team needs it. He did it in the ECSF, but not in the ECF.
Wade didnt step on Brons toes in 2011 btw. Thats a tired myth.
They performed simoultaneously just fine before the Finals. Bron just choked.
[QUOTE=tpols;15016820]The only reason he "took a step back" was to not step on Lebrons toes and have another 2011 situation happen. He willingly took backseat for chemistry purposes. Wades athleticism didn't start to fail him til late 2013 when he hurt his leg.[/QUOTE]
What's ironic about this argument is Wade averaged more shots per game in the 2012 playoffs than he did in 2011 yet still averaged 2 less ppg. And 2011 includes a fluky atrocious offensive showing against Chicago.
It was just clear by eye test Wade had taken a step back in 2012, outside of the last 3 game against Indy he never looked as dominant as he did the year before.
[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents;15016827]What's ironic about this argument is [B]Wade averaged more shots per game in the 2012 playoffs than he did in 2011 yet still averaged 2 less ppg[/B]. And 2011 includes a fluky atrocious offensive showing against Chicago.
It was just clear by eye test Wade had taken a step back in 2012, outside of the last 3 game against Indy he never looked as dominant as he did the year before.[/QUOTE]
Oh wow, interesting. So there goes that :lol
tpols taking a beating this morning
[QUOTE=tpols;15016799]Heat have more talent but less chemistry and comraderie together. Overall I do think they would win because OKC is too small and Wade + Lebron >> SGA + Jalen. Miamis role players are also getting underrated. They had a team of snipers and defenders past their Big 3 too. Shane Battier was one of the best perimeter defenders in the NBA and he was on fire from 3 in 2012 NBA Finals.[/QUOTE]
Yea. Miami had great depth on the 2013 team. They could legitimately play small ball and their snipers were one of the reasons they were so successful against the Spurs. Just look at the three point shooting from some of these guys:
Allen: 12-22 (54.5%)
Chalmers: 13-32 (41%)
Battier: 12-27 (44%)
Miller: 11-18 (61%)
That team was deep all things considered.
[QUOTE=HoopsNY;15016865]Yea. Miami had great depth on the 2013 team. They could legitimately play small ball and their snipers were one of the reasons they were so successful against the Spurs. Just look at the three point shooting from some of these guys:
Allen: 12-22 (54.5%)
Chalmers: 13-32 (41%)
Battier: 12-27 (44%)
Miller: 11-18 (61%)
That team was deep all things considered.[/QUOTE]
People used to shit on Mario Chalmers so much but dude had talent too. He could dribble, playmake finish, shoot, and defend. He was just a bonehead once in a while but his volume was so low it didn't make a big difference. He was a big plus role player. Battier and Birdman were even better. And of course Ray saved them like Black Jesus.
[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;15016801]This OKC would get smoked by a healthy 2013 Miami team.
Anderson was an underrated pick up for them that year. He gave them some needed rim protection. That team also had shooters everywhere.
On paper, you could say OKC is just as good, but we saw their inexperience at times lose them games.[/QUOTE]
Any time OKC faced situations where they could lose a series they stepped up - games 4 vs Denver and Indy where they trailed late on the road. They have the ability to lock in on defense like few teams in history.
I think you're severely underrating OKC and their competition this year.
2013 Heat were a Ray Allen 3 from not winning the title. There's no way you can say they definitely beat OKC. That Spurs team gave LeBron fits and they were nowhere near as good as OKC defensively.
[QUOTE=HoopsNY;15016779]This is peak LeBron we're speaking about. Not to mention, Miami was also a deep team. Miller-Battier-Allen-Andersen off the bench? Not to mention being top heavy with LeBron-Wade-Bosh. Even if we were to argue that OKC has more depth (which I'm not convinced about), then the distance isn't that great between them.
Miami also won 66 games in 2013. They're one of the greatest teams of all time.[/QUOTE]
Peak LeBron who struggled vs Spurs and almost didn't win without a Ray Allen 3.
OKC is also an all-time great team with an all-time great defense.
Favoring the Heat is fine, but acting like peak LeBron is inevitable and can overcome a better team literally ignores history. They struggled more in 2013 to win a title than OKC did. Last I checked OKC wasn't trailing by 15 late in an elimination game 6.
[QUOTE=tpols;15016820]The only reason he "took a step back" was to not step on Lebrons toes and have another 2011 situation happen. He willingly took backseat for chemistry purposes. Wades athleticism didn't start to fail him til late 2013 when he hurt his leg.[/QUOTE]
What 2011 situation? Yes, Wade and Lebron were 'my turn/your turning' and that wasn't ideal, but that got them 2 games from an NBA title. The 'situation' was the Heat were up 2-1 on Dallas and lose game four by 3 points with Lebron scoring 8 points( Wade had 32 and Bosh 24). If Lebron plays even 'average' in that game the Heat are up 3-1 with HCA the rest of the way. Odds are they chip in year one with what was mostly an issue of a top heavy roster with very average role players( past prime Big Z and Bibby, Carlos Arroyo, Joel Anthony, Erick Dampier) heavy in the rotation. The 2013 Heat won 66 games with Wade a full step behind where he was 2 years ago. You put 2011 Wade on the 2013 team and they're probably winning 70+ plus. In reality that Heat team should have at least won 3/4 titles ( I'll say they would have burnt out in 2014 even with a healthier Wade and lose to the Spurs regardless, but not likely in the blowout we saw).
Heat are sweeping OKC in 5
Peak James finals MVP
Kd Wb were better than SGA Jwill
it's not even close :oldlol: