Chris Paul is better than John Stockton

Prime Chris Paul is better than Prime John Stockton who averaged 9.7 ppg in the 1998 Finals. 12.8 ppg, .8 apg, 2.3 rpg in two NBA finals appearances. CP3 averaged 21.8 ppg, and 8.2 apg in the 2021 NBA Finals. Stockton is also never been a top 5 mvp candidate in his entire NBA career. Chris Paul finished 2nd in MVP voting behind Kobe in 2008. And in their best statistical season CP3 is also better you put CP3 with Karl Malone they would be winning multiple rings in the 1990's. CP3 also have more all NBA all star appearances, more all NBA first team, same numbers of all NBA team selection. Better defensive player (7x all NBA defensive first team, 0 all nba first team Stockton. CP3 9 all NBA defensive team team compared to Stockton's 5x all NBA defensive team selection. CP3 is also the better Better offensive player. They are both in the same tier as a passer with Stockton eclipcing him in durability. Best Statistical Season 2008 Chris Paul 22.8 ppg, 11 apg 2.8 spg. John Stockton 1990. 17.5 ppg 14.8 apg. 2.7 apg. Career stats CP3 17 ppg 9.2 rpg 4.4 rpg, 2.0 spg. John Stockton 13 ppg 10.5 apg, 2.2 rpg, playoffs Chris Paul 20.1 ppg, 8.3 apg, 4.9 rpg, 1.9 spg, John Stockton 13 ppg, 10 apg, 3.3 rpg, 1.9 apg

If we are talking just prime, it's not a question. CP3 was superior to Stockton, as was Nash.

Stockton is held high because of his longevity, he was never a player who was competing for MVPs.

It's actually crazy CP3 averaged that in the Finals at 36 years old, I bet most fans wouldn't have remembered he averaged 22/8 in that series. The blown 2-0 lead, his horrific Game 4 and remaining ringless would probably play a role in people's perception of his performance in that series.

No mention of durability

Just as a pure talent? Easily. Quite a few All-timer PGs can say that. CP3 actually had the ability to take over a game offensively on top of his playmaking, something Stockton never could with any consistency. I'd go as far as to say just in a vacuum, the Jazz would have been a more potent offense in the early 90s if Mark Price was in place of Stockton. He was much more of a threat in terms of his own scoring with a high PnR IQ, would have been a perfect complement to Malone. May have been the difference between the Jazz losing the 92 WCFs when Porter took a shit on Stockton.

100% wrong ... paul has never been to the finals.

[QUOTE=Jasper;15017142]100% wrong ... paul has never been to the finals.[/QUOTE]

:biggums:

[url]https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2021-nba-finals-bucks-vs-suns.html[/url]

[QUOTE=Jasper;15017142]100% wrong ... paul has never been to the finals.[/QUOTE]
Shut up fakkit

[QUOTE=Jasper;15017142]100% wrong ... paul has never been to the finals.[/QUOTE]

[IMG]https://media1.tenor.com/m/Spn80Mqq8IUAAAAd/close-door-the-office.gif[/IMG]

Chris Paul is better player talent wise but less available and more chokes. Paul almost won MVP over the GOAT Kobe Bean. Stockton never came close to an MVP. He wasn't even the best player on his own team. That was Karl.

[QUOTE=Phoenix;15017133]Just as a pure talent? Easily. Quite a few All-timer PGs can say that. CP3 actually had the ability to take over a game offensively on top of his playmaking, something Stockton never could with any consistency. I'd go as far as to say just in a vacuum, the Jazz would have been a more potent offense in the early 90s if Mark Price was in place of Stockton. He was much more of a threat in terms of his own scoring with a high PnR IQ, would have been a perfect complement to Malone. May have been the difference between the Jazz losing the 92 WCFs when Porter took a shit on Stockton.[/QUOTE]

Sloan wouldnt have let price play the same way. Not a fan of the 3

[QUOTE=tpols;15017173]Chris Paul is better player talent wise but less available and more chokes. Paul almost won MVP over the GOAT Kobe Bean. Stockton never came close to an MVP. He wasn't even the best player on his own team. That was Karl.[/QUOTE]

Id have taken stockton anyday if id had to make a choice

[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You;15017184]Id have taken stockton anyday if id had to make a choice[/QUOTE]
Rudy is better than both.

[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You;15017183]Sloan wouldnt have let price play the same way. Not a fan of the 3[/QUOTE]

Even without the 3 Price was a more dangerous offensive player, that alone puts more pressure on the defense. John Stockton isn't going to bust the game wide open with his scoring. And Sloan not being a fan of the 3 may have shifted with an actual marksman on the roster. We don't know for sure, but a good coach is going to maximize the tools in his chest. I mean look at Price busting the Bulls ass here:

[video=youtube;_X4lXwneeXo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_X4lXwneeXo&ab_channel=MJ23HisAirnessForever[/video]

You think Sloan is going to say 'you know what Mark, we don't really need any of that'.

[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You;15017184]Id have taken stockton anyday if id had to make a choice[/QUOTE]

Karl Malone is your GOAT.

[QUOTE=Phoenix;15017186]Even without the 3 Price was a more dangerous offensive player, that alone puts more pressure on the defense. John Stockton isn't going to bust the game wide open with his scoring. And Sloan not being a fan of the 3 may have shifted with an actual marksman on the roster. We don't know for sure, but a good coach is going to maximize the tools in his chest. I mean look at Price busting the Bulls ass here:

[video=youtube;_X4lXwneeXo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_X4lXwneeXo&ab_channel=MJ23HisAirnessForever[/video]

You think Sloan is going to say 'you know what Mark, we don't really need any of that'.[/QUOTE]

Yes i do. Saw it many times. Was sloans way or the highway. Porter would have feasted even more with price guarding him too. He was a good coach because of john and karl

[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You;15017199]Yes i do. Saw it many times. Was sloans way or the highway. Porter would have feasted even more with price guarding him too. He was a good coach because of john and karl[/QUOTE]

That would be to the teams detriment then. Porter would have feasted but the point is Price would have went back at him much more than Stockton did, and even if Sloan was bull-headed he worked with what he had. If Stockton was a more potent scorer I doubt he's capping the team just to be stubborn, nor restricting Price when that could be the difference in the outcome of a game or series.

[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents;15017185]Rudy is better than both.[/QUOTE]

Win Shares Per 48 Minutes
1. Rudy Gobert .227
2. John Stockton* .209
3. Karl Malone* .207
4. Adrian Dantley* .205

Player efficiency rating

1. Adrian Dantley* 24.1
2. Karl Malone* 24.1
3. Rudy Gobert 22.1
4. John Stockton* 21.8

[QUOTE=Phoenix;15017202]That would be to the teams detriment then. Porter would have feasted but the point is Price would have went back at him much more than Stockton did, and even if Sloan was bull-headed he worked with what he had. If Stockton was a more potent scorer I doubt he's capping the team just to be stubborn, nor restricting Price when that could be the difference in the outcome of a game or series.[/QUOTE]

Sure he is. Jazz were at their best offensively running as we saw in the 88 playoffs under the comedian Sloan made them a half court team

[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You;15017203]Win Shares Per 48 Minutes
1. Rudy Gobert .227
2. John Stockton* .209
3. Karl Malone* .207
4. Adrian Dantley* .205

Player efficiency rating

1. Adrian Dantley* 24.1
2. Karl Malone* 24.1
3. Rudy Gobert 22.1
4. John Stockton* 21.8[/QUOTE]
Rudy's the GOAT Jazz player, arguably Wolves too.

[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You;15017205]Sure he is. Jazz were at their best offensively running as we saw in the 88 playoffs under the comedian Sloan made them a half court team[/QUOTE]
Eh, he worked with what he had. And I seriously doubt he lasts decades as a coach if the Jazz higher-ups think he's capping the team's potential due to his own inflexibility.

[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents;15017206]Rudy's the GOAT Jazz player, arguably Wolves too.[/QUOTE]

Offensive Rating
1. Rudy Gobert 131.7
2. Fred Hoiberg 128.

Win Shares Per 48 Minutes
1. Rudy Gobert .199
2. Kevin Love .189
3. Kevin Garnett* .185

[QUOTE=Phoenix;15017207]Eh, he worked with what he had. And I seriously doubt he lasts decades as a coach if the Jazz higher-ups think he's capping the team's potential due to his own inflexibility.[/QUOTE]

They went from 1st to 3rd in their division twice. He wouldnt have lasted decades anywhere but utah. How long did he last in chicago?

Sloan did like gobert at the draft combine. Give credit where it is due

[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You;15017209]They went from 1st to 3rd in their division twice. He wouldnt have lasted decades anywhere but utah. How long did he last in chicago?[/QUOTE]

Don't know, and irrelevant to my point. I'm just saying I think Price isn't strongly handicapped to reduce his ability as a scorer. You think otherwise, and for something that can't be proven one way or another, not something I'm spending my afternoon pointlessly going back and forth over.

VORP

1. LeBron James 156.61
2. Michael Jordan* 116.05
3. John Stockton* 106.53
4. Karl Malone* 98.96
5. Chris Paul 98.92

Both men are incredible for different reasons. John is the GOAT of pure PG's. He was often the third or fourth option on his team and not only was he durable and consistent but more successful in the sense he made the playoffs every..single...season. Jordan and Lebron didn't do that...that's Bill Russell/Jerry West level of success with less talent around him.

Chris Paul nobody got screwed out of more MVP's than Chris Paul, Chris Paul made every team he played for better. He is both a high IQ player and an incredible athlete and he got the best out of his teammates. I give the edge to John Stockton because he was so durable, and he never left the Jazz

[QUOTE=John8204;15017218]VORP

1. LeBron James 156.61
2. Michael Jordan* 116.05
3. John Stockton* 106.53
4. Karl Malone* 98.96
5. Chris Paul 98.92

Both men are incredible for different reasons. John is the GOAT of pure PG's. He was often the third or fourth option on his team and not only was he durable and consistent but more successful in the sense he made the playoffs every..single...season. Jordan and Lebron didn't do that...that's Bill Russell/Jerry West level of success with less talent around him.

Chris Paul nobody got screwed out of more MVP's than Chris Paul, Chris Paul made every team he played for better. He is both a high IQ player and an incredible athlete and he got the best out of his teammates. I give the edge to John Stockton because he was so durable, and he never left the Jazz[/QUOTE]

Not sure being screwed by the jazz gives him an edge. Could have made more money elsewhere and who knows what another coach and team may have brought out of him?

[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You;15017203]Win Shares Per 48 Minutes
1. Rudy Gobert .227
2. John Stockton* .209
3. Karl Malone* .207
4. Adrian Dantley* .205

Player efficiency rating

1. Adrian Dantley* 24.1
2. Karl Malone* 24.1
3. Rudy Gobert 22.1
4. John Stockton* 21.8[/QUOTE]

I love how you continue to be insistent on utilizing numbers that are well known to skew favorably towards low volume bigs, despite this almost certainly having been explained to you more times than I can count on two hands :lol

[QUOTE=ShawkFactory;15017223]I love how you continue to be insistent on utilizing numbers that are well known to skew favorably towards low volume bigs, despite this almost certainly having been explained to you more times than I can count on two hands :lol[/QUOTE]
3 Low volume hall of famers :facepalm