SGA signs Supermax for 72 million a season.

4 year 285. 79 million in the final year. People are already talking about being disappointed he didn’t leave something on the table.

I thought he was gonna be the first guy at 80, but it’s looking like that will be Luka. It could actually still be SGA because none of the numbers are fully set

anyway, expect a new round of discussion about the underpaid nurses and teachers, even though nobody wants to pay the kind of taxes or healthcare cost that would be required to make teachers and nurses get near the money in question.

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855;15019235]79 million in the final year. People are already talking about their disappointed. He didn’t leave something on the table.[/QUOTE]

OKC doesn't have the market to be able to survive multiple years of luxury taxes. I think this contract is the beginning of the end. They might still be good, but they will be Milwaukee good in that there's one great player and that's it.

[QUOTE]I thought he was gonna be the first guy at 80, but it’s looking like that will be Luka.[/QUOTE]
Luka will be a significantly worse value

[QUOTE]anyway, expect a new round of discussion about the underpaid nurses and teachers, even though nobody wants to pay the kind of taxes or healthcare cost that would be required to make teachers and nurses get near the money in question.[/QUOTE]
Nobody? Or the billionaires who never pay any taxes at all?

Nobody Billionaires included. Whatever you’d have to hike state taxes to you would never get it passed at the ballot. People want them to get the money they just don’t want the money to come from anywhere that has anything to do with them.


Hell, I’m not even sure most of the country wants them to get the money at all. A pretty large demographic has turned on the teachers. You’d probably have to go with the fireman at this point.

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855;15019235]anyway, expect a new round of discussion about the underpaid nurses and teachers, even though nobody wants to pay the kind of taxes or healthcare cost that would be required to make teachers and nurses get near the money in question.[/QUOTE]

Expect a new round of Kblaze saying money grows on trees and salaries should be at half a billion now and that's why the Suns made a great deal signing Beal since money is endless and teams can pay any player any amount of money and blame it on teachers and nurses somehow.

I don't have a problem with a MVP getting the super max. But if a guy who is 3rd team All NBA gets it then its just a bad contract. I don't care who it is.

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855;15019239]Nobody Billionaires included. Whatever you’d have to hike state taxes to you would never get it passed at the ballot. People want them to get the money they just don’t want the money to come from anywhere that has anything to do with them.


Hell, I’m not even sure most of the country wants them to get the money at all. A pretty large demographic has turned on the teachers. You’d probably have to go with the fireman at this point.[/QUOTE]

I think we are speaking to two different problems. Normal people don't want to pay higher taxes, but the majority are accepting of the fact they will have to pay [I]some[/I] taxes. Most multi-millionaires and billionaires don't want to pay [i]any[/i] taxes at all, and are [i]not willing to accept[/i] paying taxes. They will bribe, cheat, lobby, and tax-shelter everything to completely avoid it.

There would be no increase needed for the average person if billionaires paid a similar tax rate to the general public. As a matter of fact, that should be the basis for a new law: million dollar organizations/individuals must pay at least the mean effective tax rate of all filers from the previous calendar year on their AGI.

[QUOTE=bison;15019252]Expect a new round of Kblaze saying money grows on trees and salaries should be at half a billion now and that's why the Suns made a great deal signing Beal since money is endless and teams can pay any player any amount of money and blame it on teachers and nurses somehow.[/QUOTE]

The salary should be at whatever they have to be to hit the required revenue split. Fans forever having a problem with the fact that NBA rosters are smaller than other sports so you have to break up ever increasing revenue over the same pool of players has nothing to do with me.

people are making 270 million coming straight off the rookie contracts When they aren’t even eligible for the real, super Max yet.

The math is the math. It doesn’t care what anybody thinks about it. SGA when he makes 79 of a 190ish million cap will be making a little less than Juwan Howard made on the Nuggets in 2002.

which is why the Max contract is the greatest trick the owners have ever pulled. They get the public outraged over a tool designed to save them money.

The players used to have a 57% split of the revenue. You don’t wanna know what a max contract would be under those conditions.

The owners just placated the union with non monetary concessions like rules around number of practice days, the required amenities and other things like that while taking back more than 7%. Which is about to be about $900 million a year.

Everybody’s happy. That’s why they can afford to pay players individual contracts that are more than an entire team was worth not long ago.

The new arrangement is designed to make the owners money even when they squeeze the teambuilding aspect.

The revenue climbed so high the players don’t care if they get a smaller cut of it in exchange for largely unimportant comforts.

It’s the first time there’s been an everybody happy Balance maybe ever. There was a lockout three straight CBA expirations in a row dating back to the early 90s, but the last one went through without a hitch. Came and went without even being reported on.

I don’t know what they even have to address next time. Maybe make the second apron less painful? But the teams under the tax get to split it with the league getting to take the other half to go towards operations, so I’m not sure you would even get the votes to change it.

I think everybody is happy with the arrangement other than the fans.

If the MVP isn't worth the supermax then no one is but it exists and the Thunder clearly believe he's worth paying it. They will have to retool to get out of second apron whenever the time comes but that's what it will be like for Champ teams going forward.

[QUOTE=tontoz;15019257]I don't have a problem with a MVP getting the super max. But if a guy who is 3rd team All NBA gets it then it’s just a bad contract. I don't care who it is.[/QUOTE]

I think everyone on the current third team other than Jaylen Williams either already has super Max or is going to get it. Some of them have that rookie version that they changed to accommodate people like Derrick Rose where percentage wise It’s still super Max, but the numbers are smaller because it goes up from the smaller initial rookie deals. That’s the kind that Evan Mobley has where it’s like 270 and that’s the kind Williams is gonna have to sign. That’ll be 250 but eligible to go up to just under 300 if he makes another all NBA team.

I’m sure there was some give-and-take about the eligibility requirements. I wish the NBA had a David Sampson equivalent. He’s a former team president from baseball And he’ll just tell you which owners and executives were in the official meetings asking for what and how they would go and laugh about the idiot players trading eligibility for this or that for something stupid like team chefs at the facility.

they would go in with whole lists they got from former players about things players wanted, knowing most of them didn’t cost any real money and they would kick and scream and fight and pretend they were giving in on something important and get a real concession like how many years You have to pay to get lifetime healthcare and shit.

The unions are ****ing stupid.

The owners like nothing more than for the union to listen to the player reps instead of the lawyers because the player reps just wanna go back to the locker room and talk about stupid amenities they got the owners to bend on when the owners don’t care at all about that shit

The players probably traded lifetime dental plans, and higher pension payments To make an extra five of them a year eligible for contracts they were probably gonna get anyway.

apparently, the NBA is a much better business decision to enter now then it was 10 or 15 years ago. The union has bent on so many things and the owners don’t care about anything but the revenue split.

they don’t care who in particular it goes to. They get to keep an extra $900 million a year between them.

The competition between them is largely for show. Have you seen any of the emails Pablo Torre found from the discovery on the NFL collusion case? Those owners are hilarious.

The players are really out of their element. They get five or six owners who actually know what they’re doing To run the negotiations and it’s a blood bath.

[QUOTE=beasted;15019259]I think we are speaking to two different problems. Normal people don't want to pay higher taxes, but the majority are accepting of the fact they will have to pay [I]some[/I] taxes. Most multi-millionaires and billionaires don't want to pay [I]any[/I] taxes at all, and are [I]not willing to accept[/I] paying taxes. They will bribe, cheat, lobby, and tax-shelter everything to completely avoid it.

There would be no increase needed for the average person if billionaires paid a similar tax rate to the general public. As a matter of fact, that should be the basis for a new law: million dollar organizations/individuals must pay at least the mean effective tax rate of all filers from the previous calendar year on their AGI.[/QUOTE]

if you could liquidate every billionaire on earth……not America…Earth… It would pay for America to run for two years.

And it wouldn’t actually do that because once you did it, Congress would pass the most massive spending increases in history to find something to do with it that will blow the money immediately.

They couldn’t even pay off half the national debt with it. There is no amount of money you could tax people to get this country out of the red in the end whatever you choose to do with the money it’s just adding to the problem if the spending isn’t reduced.

all that would happen with increased taxes is moving the red around. One side wants social programs to stay popular with the right demographic and the other side wants massive defense spending and corporate tax breaks and subsidies to remain popular with the people they need. And both sides will always need just enough cooperation from the other that they can’t completely strip the other sides priorities so all that happens is both sides increase spending forever while claiming victory when they’re the ones who get to choose who gets to get slightly more at the moment.

you don’t raise taxes and teachers get rich. You raise taxes and teachers are slightly less poor while the bulk of the added revenue goes towards unrelated bullshit from both parties.

but in exchange for the teachers being slightly less poor, you end up having to push back cost-of-living increases so after inflation, they’re exactly where they started like four years later, but the other bullshit you added to the budget to get the initial increases passed are on the books forever.

You cannot tax your way out of an addiction to spending, and that’s why we’re all going to live and die, and then our children will live and die, and their children will live and die bitching about the same things.

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855;15019273]if you could liquidate every billionaire on earth……not America…Earth… It would pay for America to run for two years.

And it wouldn’t actually do that because once you did it, Congress would pass the most massive spending increases in history to find something to do with it that will blow the money immediately.

They couldn’t even pay off half the national debt with it. There is no amount of money you could tax people to get this country out of the red in the end whatever you choose to do with the money it’s just adding to the problem if the spending isn’t reduced.

all that would happen with increased taxes is moving the red around. One side wants social programs to stay popular with the right demographic and the other side wants massive defense spending and corporate tax breaks and subsidies to remain popular with the people they need. And both sides will always need just enough cooperation from the other that they can’t completely strip the other sides priorities so all that happens is both sides increase spending forever while claiming victory when they’re the ones who get to choose who gets to get slightly more at the moment.

you don’t raise taxes and teachers get rich. You raise taxes and teachers are slightly less poor while the bulk of the added revenue goes towards unrelated bullshit from both parties.

but in exchange for the teachers being slightly less poor, you end up having to push back cost-of-living increases so after inflation, they’re exactly where they started like four years later, but the other bullshit you added to the budget to get the initial increases passed are on the books forever.

You cannot tax your way out of an addiction to spending, and that’s why we’re all going to live and die, and then our children will live and die, and their children will live and die bitching about the same things.[/QUOTE]

What you're speaking about is a problem with the general democratic process, lack of trasparency and excessive administrative costs. Years ago I saw a study that said if you closed all the administrative offices and associated costs with paperwork, infrastructure, etc. and just simply wrote a check to all social service recipients instead, nobody in the US would be below the federal poverty level.

I get it, but that is a different problem. We can't keep using another problem as an excuse for creating a solution where it's available.

It's like saying, I'm not going to give you food when you're starving because you have no refrigerator to store the items. Then when I get a refrigerator, the excuse is there is no electricity to run it.

These problems are complex, and every solution might have a dependency, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't start somewhere. I'm very fortunate to live in a major city and make a comfortable income. I'm willing to pay some taxes, billionaires should be equally willing.

Leave something on the table? He won okc a NBA Finals. Lol People without money always want to be “financial advisors”. Tell them to leave some money for a coworker to get a raise who hasn’t got one in awhile. *crickets*

Anyway well deserved for SGA.

And then we get back to the reality that if you murdered and confiscated the wealth of all the world‘s billionaires, including those I have America you couldn’t even pay America’s national debt much less actually Finance the far reaching programs necessary to do what people want to do.

And at that point you’re out of your boogie men and looking for a new scape goat for the world’s issues.

it’s always pointed out just how much a billion is in an effort to get people to understand the wealth of these people, but what’s equally true is just how many people need help and how quickly those billionaires money runs out when you try to spread long-term relief over that many people.

It’s like when people say Elon Musk has enough money to give ___ to everyone in America thinking it’s a lot it’s actually like 1000 bucks.

Taking every dollar every one of these people have wouldn’t be enough, even if you could transfer it without bureaucracy and not have to rely on a broken system to distribute it and managed the process.

That’s also pretending you wouldn’t destroy the economy, trying to liquidate enough assets to take all the billionaires money in the first place.

taking it all wouldn’t get the job done. So you definitely aren’t getting it done with a revamp tax system that was simply shuffle around the trillions, we already bring in while spending more.

You have to tear the system down to zero and rebuild the budget having to justify the expenditure of every dollar instead of simply re-authorizing all the previously inserted pork, which is ultimately why none of this will ever work.

there is not enough money available through any system of taxation or even outright murder and theft to pay down the debt we already have so anything we add is just deepening the hole.

One side is fine with deepening it for one set of issues, and the other side wants to deepen it for another set of issues, both of which have their points and both of which have undeniable forms of corruption.

there is no answer short of the kind of tyranny necessary to overcome the system of government we have which intentionally makes large changes difficult.

You’d have to destroy America and rebuild it with a different constitution and start over.

and the process would be so ugly you would be remembered as a worse monster than the people who got us in this spot in the first place.

[QUOTE=GOBB;15019299]Leave something on the table? He won okc a NBA Finals. Lol People without money always want to be “financial advisors”. Tell them to leave some money for a coworker to get a raise who hasn’t got one in awhile. *crickets*

Anyway well deserved for SGA.[/QUOTE]

I’m reading some thunder fans happy he signed this year instead of waiting till next year when he could sign for 380 million, but then others are telling them he’s just doing it so his next extension will be for even more money long term because he will get to it a year sooner Leaving the opportunity for a third.

they can’t decide if he’s leaving money on the table or trying to **** them over by forcing them to be in the second apron when he might not even be worth it anymore.

Safe to say there’s no way you can get paid this amount of money to play sports without someone finding a reason to call you an asshole.

this guy is a glorified glenn rice shooter... i see nothing else.

[QUOTE=Jasper;15019309]this guy is a glorified glenn rice shooter... i see nothing else.[/QUOTE]

:oldlol:

Might be time for a visit to the eye doctor.

Glen Rice to be one of the wildest comparisons I’ve ever heard. Not even my level play. I just don’t know why they would be in the same sentence. There’s nothing to compare but skin color.

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855;15019301]And then we get back to the reality that if you murdered and confiscated the wealth of all the world‘s billionaires, including those I have America you couldn’t even pay America’s national debt much less actually Finance the far reaching programs necessary to do what people want to do.

And at that point you’re out of your boogie men and looking for a new scape goat for the world’s issues.

it’s always pointed out just how much a billion is in an effort to get people to understand the wealth of these people, but what’s equally true is just how many people need help and how quickly those billionaires money runs out when you try to spread long-term relief over that many people.

It’s like when people say Elon Musk has enough money to give ___ to everyone in America thinking it’s a lot it’s actually like 1000 bucks.

Taking every dollar every one of these people have wouldn’t be enough, even if you could transfer it without bureaucracy and not have to rely on a broken system to distribute it and managed the process.

That’s also pretending you wouldn’t destroy the economy, trying to liquidate enough assets to take all the billionaires money in the first place.

taking it all wouldn’t get the job done. So you definitely aren’t getting it done with a revamp tax system that was simply shuffle around the trillions, we already bring in while spending more.

You have to tear the system down to zero and rebuild the budget having to justify the expenditure of every dollar instead of simply re-authorizing all the previously inserted pork, which is ultimately why none of this will ever work.

there is not enough money available through any system of taxation or even outright murder and theft to pay down the debt we already have so anything we add is just deepening the hole.

One side is fine with deepening it for one set of issues, and the other side wants to deepen it for another set of issues, both of which have their points and both of which have undeniable forms of corruption.

there is no answer short of the kind of tyranny necessary to overcome the system of government we have which intentionally makes large changes difficult.

You’d have to destroy America and rebuild it with a different constitution and start over.

and the process would be so ugly you would be remembered as a worse monster than the people who got us in this spot in the first place.[/QUOTE]
You cannot think with this mindset. You solve one problem at a time.

I've worked in the corporate business world for several years now tackling problems that feel completely insurmountable. If nothing that you do is contributing towards progress then what is the point of living at all?

You seem very entrenched in this ideology so I won't try and change your mind. But, best of luck.

[QUOTE=Jasper;15019309]this guy is a glorified glenn rice shooter... i see nothing else.[/QUOTE]

Ridiculous comparison. He's a glorified Rip Hamilton.

[SIZE=1]For the slower people in the forum, the above is sarcasm.[/SIZE]

[QUOTE=beasted;15019406]You cannot think with this mindset. You solve one problem at a time.

I've worked in the corporate business world for several years now tackling problems that feel completely insurmountable. If nothing that you do is contributing towards progress then what is the point of living at all?

You seem very entrenched in this ideology so I won't try and change your mind. But, best of luck.[/QUOTE]


I’m not entrenched in anything. I’m just a realist who doesn’t fall for nice sounding plans with impractical ideas from people who refuse to acknowledge the lack of real world feasibility.

I’ll be anti billionaire pay your fair share bullshit is just to get applause from ignorant poor people who don’t understand how much money you actually need and how much is available through taxes.

Taking every ounce of wealth, these people have across the entire earth would pay 38% of America’s current debt. So how exactly do you simply find a way to increase taxes on just the American ones and Finance the massive New spending programs you would have to have to really “fix” things?

You can’t. The whole line of thinking is flawed in the first place because the only true solution is a long long long-term reduction in spending. And to reduce spending by the amount necessary, you would either have to stop paying on the debt we have(likely wrecking the world economy), Cut Social Security and Medicaid so much the resulting backlash would guarantee whatever party did it would be voted out so completely the opponents would end up with a super majority, or almost entirely pause defense spending.

And any one of the three would only serve to basically balance the budget and let you gradually get towards the black over a period of decades.

The simple fact is America spends too much money for what it brings in so no new major programs can do anything, but put us further in the red because no change to the tax status of the super rich the left loves to paint as the problem could generate enough money.

The billionaires have a lot of money compared to a normal person. The billionaires do not make enough money to fix America.

Go ahead and lead your mob of peasants to eat the rich and somehow absorb all the American billionaires net worth in liquid form into the federal government. All you could do is cover the interest payments on America’s debt for five or six years. Or you could run the country till spring.

None of these pie in the sky, feel good, rally the stupid poor people who don’t know any better tax plans fix the problem of runaway spending that exists because both sides have to compromise on every budget.

You get to what would have to happen in the real world to implement most of the bullshit the deep left wants to happen and nobody actually has an answer that wouldn’t immediately get whoever tried to implement it put out of the government and replaced by someone who would completely undo it.

I must’ve had some version of this discussion with a few Dozen people over the years, none of which actually have an answer. They have slogans. And slogans don’t get things done.

Everyone eventually just acknowledges what they’re saying is impossible with the current system or that they would have to do it while continuing to increase the debt because the bullshit they want to do will not actually raise enough money to fix the current issues.

These issues are bone deep and people who don’t think past 10 word answers and bumper sticker solutions to get the simple minded on their side by making an enemy of someone else I never prepared to have a true discussion on what the political climate would demand to actually accomplish this shit.

Nobody wants to hear it. They want to do what you did and act like being honest about the real world questions that need answering is just being negative.

The way you get this far gone in the first place is people trying to implement plans that aren’t long-term feasible without a fix in mind to begin with. And people think you can Get out of the hole previous versions of them put us in by digging deeper. And I promise you aren’t gonna get to China and pop out of a hole. You’re just gonna keep getting deeper and then die. That’s the real world.

And that’s why I could never go into politics(I’ve been approached on a local level). I’m gonna tell people the truth and then lose. I’m an excellent bullshitter and all my life people told me I should’ve been a lawyer or a preacher. I could absolutely shape an argument to tell morons what they want to hear to get support. But I wanna be right more than I wanna win in the eyes of people who just Want warm, comforting, lies to wrap themselves up in.

“Yes we can” and make America great again win elections. Looks great on a shirt or a hat. But you can’t take enough of the country with you to fundamentally rebuild it. And even if you did, you would lose too much of it to get the job done in the decades it would take when you destroy the economy or totally ruin your sides popularity by cutting off the kinds of things you would have to to even begin fixing the problem.

The truth doesn’t get you anywhere when you need the votes of stupid people to get elected. And both sides do.

i’m content to tell people truth they don’t like even if it’s unpopular. I don’t like them either. But all the people lying that they have the answer just get elected and show you they don’t.

Do a great job getting across the finish line with bullshit issues that don’t really matter like a handful of trans people or a handful of billionaires We could kill and Rob and be in the exact same spot we are now.

there is no big answer in this system of government that allows the backlash to get you kicked out.

That’s all there is to it.

The Max contracts and the billionaires are not the problem. The problem is corruption and not having the balls to be unpopular for the last 75 years. And you can’t tax your way out of it

[QUOTE=Phoenix;15019424]Ridiculous comparison. He's a glorified Rip Hamilton.

[SIZE=1]For the slower people in the forum, the above is sarcasm.[/SIZE][/QUOTE]

now you’ve got me trying to decide who he is a glorified version of. There aren’t many good comparisons that come to mind. It’s not that his Skill set is so unique. It’s just the role of the lead guard has changed so much with play styles It’s hard to use most historical examples.

penny didn’t shoot enough. Most of the people who did what kind of ball handler or defender he is.

It’s kinda tough actually.

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855;15019427]now you’ve got me trying to decide who he is a glorified version of. There aren’t many good comparisons that come to mind. It’s not that his Skill set is so unique. It’s just the role of the lead guard has changed so much with play styles It’s hard to use most historical examples.

penny didn’t shoot enough. Most of the people who did what kind of ball handler or defender he is.

It’s kinda tough actually.[/QUOTE]

No, it's not that there's anything unprecedented about his skillset/play-style per se. It was more like......Glen Rice?!?! There's not a single thing one can point to where that's a remotely apt comparison. As for Penny the majority of his best years were with Shaq, the glimpse of him taking a larger scoring role was the 96 season covering for him to start the year. I figure if he was healthy after 98 post Shaq you'd have seen some 28/7/5 seasons from him.

[QUOTE=Jasper;15019309]this guy is a glorified glenn rice shooter... i see nothing else.[/QUOTE]

Last time you visited the eye doctor? You’re due

how many dimes or boards in critical times:confusedshrug::confusedshrug::confusedshrug:

[QUOTE=Jasper;15019436]how many dimes or boards in critical times:confusedshrug::confusedshrug::confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]

Shai averaged 6.5 assists per game in the playoffs. Rice averaged 1.8 :oldlol:

[QUOTE=Jasper;15019436]how many dimes or boards in critical times:confusedshrug::confusedshrug::confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]

6 and 5 of those in the finals which led to a ring and FMVP. By the way, Glen Rice had 2097 assists in 15 years. SGA has 2362 in 7.

What are we talking about here?

hartenstein and or caruso are gone in 2 years. Lineup is gonna be like cason, shai, dort, jalen, chet in future with 1-2 guys off the bench. Lot of pressure on shai to stay mvp lvl and jalen and chet to improve