when are we getting our billions back from the welfare whores in ukraine and israel?

give me my america first. where is my america first?

[video=youtube;ZomwVcGt0LE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZomwVcGt0LE[/video]

...because no matter who you vote for, you just end up getting john mccain.

If it weren't for Israel, Iran wouldn't be disarmed right now.

[QUOTE=Baller234;15026639]If it weren't for Israel, Iran wouldn't be disarmed right now.[/QUOTE]

Interesting...because by all international accounts, the IAEA and others including US intelligence, Iran hasn't been pursuing a nuclear bomb since the early 2000s, even their Ayatollah issued a fatwa against the pursuit of nuclear weapons calling them evil and immoral. This last attack might convince Iran to pursue one though because apparently just like North Korea, we don't mess with nuclear powers, it's common sense. Iran having a nuke would overall be good, it would stop Israel fukking with all their neighbors knowing there's a nation there that could wipe them off the face of the earth if they keep on warmongering.

Also, Israel ain't our friends, allies don't spy and blackmail allies. AIPAC owning a bunch of US politicians =/= friends. They've bombed Christian churches numerous times, Israel ain't our friend.

If Iran wasn't pursuing a nuclear weapon, why did they build a secret base 300 feet underground? :oldlol:

[QUOTE=Baller234;15026656]If Iran wasn't pursuing a nuclear weapon, why did they build a secret base 300 feet underground? :oldlol:[/QUOTE]

I don't know but you must have more reliable intelligence than the IAEI and other nuclear nonproliferation agencies including the Director of National Intelligence whom stated they weren't pursuing a nuke and who were 100% complying with international inspections until our Orange Idiot tore up the agreement. What are your sources other than "trust me, bro"?

[QUOTE=Baller234;15026639]If it weren't for Israel, Iran wouldn't be disarmed right now.[/QUOTE]

that's but a mere snapshot of the big picture.

but if iran was such a threat, we'd do best to disarm india, pakistan and nk as well, who are all arguably just as unstable of nuclear powers as iran and refuse to join the rest of the civilized world as part of the npt. we are imperial America, afterall and tell the entire world how to operate

ah, that's right. they're not a direct threat to Israel so it's not a priority. or maybe our congress just isn't getting paid enough to act.

[QUOTE=diamenz;15026668]that's but a mere snapshot of the big picture.

but if iran was such a threat, we'd do best to disarm india, pakistan and nk as well, who are all arguably just as unstable of nuclear powers as iran and refuse to join the rest of the civilized world as part of the npt. we are imperial America, afterall and tell the entire world how to operate

ah, that's right. they're not a direct threat to Israel so it's not a priority. or maybe our congress just isn't getting paid enough to act.[/QUOTE]

Israel refuses to let international nuclear nonproliferation agencies inspect their nuclear weapons, in fact they haven't even admitted to having nukes even though everyone knows they have them. That reeks of an unstable nuclear power to me

[QUOTE=Baller234;15026639]If it weren't for Israel, Iran wouldn't be disarmed right now.[/QUOTE]

Here's the problem.

The west keeps claiming that Iran is building its nuclear war program for the past 25 years. Over the course of these 25 years, they either 1. should have succeeded by now; 2. If they did succeed, they haven't even bombed anyone with it. So who is to say that the USA has the right to dictate who gets what weapons and what not?

Why does the West only gets to play with bombs and other countries do not? I'm certain that the USA has killed more and bombed more than Iran.

[QUOTE=diamenz;15026668]that's but a mere snapshot of the big picture.

but if iran was such a threat, we'd do best to disarm india, pakistan and nk as well, who are all arguably just as unstable of nuclear powers as iran and refuse to join the rest of the civilized world as part of the npt. we are imperial America, afterall and tell the entire world how to operate

ah, that's right. they're not a direct threat to Israel so it's not a priority. or maybe our congress just isn't getting paid enough to act.[/QUOTE]

Disarm them? Lol, those countries already have nukes pal. It's a little too late for that. I'm sure if Trump could go back in time and wave a magic wand then he would.

The goal was keeping Iran from entering the chat.

[QUOTE=TeflonDonTrump;15026671]Here's the problem.

The west keeps claiming that Iran is building its nuclear war program for the past 25 years. Over the course of these 25 years, they either 1. should have succeeded by now; 2. If they did succeed, they haven't even bombed anyone with it. So who is to say that the USA has the right to dictate who gets what weapons and what not?

[B]Why does the West only gets to play with bombs and other countries do not? [/B] I'm certain that the USA has killed more and bombed more than Iran.[/QUOTE]

Because the world is a poker table and we want to remain the big stack?

Why would you as an american be in favor of something that would hurt our standing as superpower?

[QUOTE=TeflonDonTrump;15026671]Here's the problem.

The west keeps claiming that Iran is building its nuclear war program for the past 25 years. Over the course of these 25 years, they either 1. should have succeeded by now; 2. If they did succeed, they haven't even bombed anyone with it. So who is to say that the USA has the right to dictate who gets what weapons and what not?

Why does the West only gets to play with bombs and other countries do not? I'm certain that the USA has killed more and bombed more than Iran.[/QUOTE]

Big Carl comin in hot with the facts.

[QUOTE=Baller234;15026656]If Iran wasn't pursuing a nuclear weapon, why did they build a secret base 300 feet underground? :oldlol:[/QUOTE]

Who cares? Worry about America. You're literally only saying this because the media and zionists are obsessed with that sh!t country Israel that puts the entire world at risk.

[QUOTE=Baller234;15026656]If Iran wasn't pursuing a nuclear weapon, why did they build a secret base 300 feet underground? :oldlol:[/QUOTE]

IF it's so secretive, how do we know about it? :eek:


one thing is for sure however, there's no epstein-trump activities down there.

We dumped $Trillions on ourselves during covid and now with BBB Trump is dumping more $Trillions on us.

Giving ourselves money is seen as an inflationary. Throwing money elsewhere? It does not cause inflation within the US.

[QUOTE=HoopsNY;15026679]Who cares? [b]Worry about America[/b]. You're literally only saying this because the media and zionists are obsessed with that sh!t country Israel that puts the entire world at risk.[/QUOTE]

Citizens have been telling that to the left the last 4yrs but all they cared about was letting in as many illegals as possible. Put them up in hotels, feed em', get em' gift cards etc.. etc.. all just for votes to keep Dems in charge.

It's pretty safe to say which side cares about America and it's tax paying citizens

[QUOTE=highwhey;15026681][B]IF it's so secretive, how do we know about it?[/B]
[/QUOTE]

Because of Israeli intelligence.

[QUOTE=HoopsNY;15026679]Who cares? Worry about America. You're literally only saying this because the media and zionists are obsessed with that sh!t country Israel that puts the entire world at risk.[/QUOTE]

Hey dipshit, if Iran becomes a nuclear power, that's not good for America.

This fukking idiot actually said "who cares".

[QUOTE=Baller234;15026672]Disarm them? Lol, those countries already have nukes pal. It's a little too late for that. [/QUOTE]

yeah that was mindless of me to say that. :rolleyes:

[QUOTE=Baller234;15026639]If it weren't for Israel, Iran wouldn't be disarmed right now.[/QUOTE]

surely you're skeptical or at the least willing to entertain the possibility that task wasn't executed on behalf of [I]our[/I] safety or for the 'greater good of the world' but instead carried out on behalf of israel's interests; due to lately what seems to be a limitless influence on our government.

iran is a threat to israel and israel alone - iran's advocation of the palestinian cause in particular. the houthis, hezbollah, hamas - all of the terrorist organizations that they fund all exist because of the gaza occupation. so they're not just a military threat but an ideological one. per usual israel leveraged us for action and because our government is comprised, we obliged.

but [I]us[/I]? they pose zero threat to us. if we hadn't been meddling in ME affairs for decades, we would be on neutral terms with iran and doing business with them, similar to how russia would be doing business with us if we weren't meddling in [I]their[/I] affairs.

speaking of which, trump has been a great disappointment in that regard. that war should be coming to a slow crawl by now if trump were doing what he campaigned on.

[QUOTE=Baller234;15026673]Because the world is a poker table and we want to remain the big stack?

Why would you as an american be in favor of something that would hurt our standing as superpower?[/QUOTE]

because we thrive as a commercial superpower, not an imperial one. always have. peace abroad, prosperity at home. who are we to tell other countries how to live? "if you're not a liberal democracy like us, you're the enemy" is what we convey to the world. look no further than our failed "containment" of russia and the mess that's left us in.

in addition to that, this isn't a unipolar world anymore and we can't seem to want to accept that fact. we think we run the show and can bully everyone else without consequence. we're pushing russia into the arms of our peer competitor superpower in china and the dollar is losing it's standing as the world's reserve currency. there's not very much to be optimistic about in terms of our standing on the world stage.

[QUOTE=Baller234;15026693]Hey dipshit, if Iran becomes a nuclear power, that's not good for America.

This fukking idiot actually said "who cares".[/QUOTE]

Yes, because we've been hearing for 30 years that they're days away from a nuke. The agreement in 2013 was to scrap uranium enrichment once sanctions and their money was lifted. Trump squashed that deal so what did you think was the natural outcome?

And all of this is because Israel ACTUALLY has nukes. So where does this leave everyone? And honestly, who gives a shit. Let them blow each other up, why the hell do we care? We can't take care of the entire world.

But for some reason we feel the need to bleed our own tax dollars into worldwide conflicts all for the sake of Israel. Iraq war ring a bell? NATO and Libya ring a bell? I'm tired of this garbage and you should be too.

[QUOTE=Baller234;15026673]Because the world is a poker table and we want to remain the big stack?

Why would you as an american be in favor of something that would hurt our standing as superpower?[/QUOTE]

There's absolutely no reason for us to be some police force for the world.

The problem with the US is they always accuses other countries of atrocities but overlook their own. Who's to say your "democracy" is a better form of government over others. Don't use the guise of "democracy" to invade other countries. There's no reason for that.

the elite benefit from this country being the world's police, not only through military channels but domestically through law enforcement. you think trump gives a flying fck about illegals? no, it's just a scam to syphon money into his friend's pockets that will later end up in his pocket. saw a 1 billion dollar contract was awarded to some small company with little experience to build a new deportee prison. no facility requires 1 billion dollars, unless there's payoffs behind the curtains. that's ONE BILLION to build a prison. to staff it and maintain it is an entirely separate process and likely extremely expensive. extremely bloated contracts to build a facility, and more bloated contracts to staff it. gee, i wonder which of his donors are getting those contracts...would LOVE to see an independent audit report on all of those expenditures extending into the contractors involved. Afterall, any federal contract requires certified payroll reports....:eek:

[video=youtube;EB7SCpqODOE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EB7SCpqODOE[/video]

[QUOTE=TeflonDonTrump;15026802][B]There's absolutely no reason for us to be some police force for the world. [/B]

The problem with the US is they always accuses other countries of atrocities but overlook their own. Who's to say your "democracy" is a better form of government over others. Don't use the guise of "democracy" to invade other countries. There's no reason for that.[/QUOTE]

Huh? Other countries literally rely on us for protection.

Being the leader of the free world comes with obligations and responsibilities. In this case we have an obligation to maintain order and ensure our position on top. You should be grateful we even have the authority and leverage to police the world, because if we didn't then someone else would be doing it. All these other countries want what we have. They all want to dictate the terms and if given the opportunity, all of them would take it. The world is a poker game, not a PTA meeting. You should be rooting for the west to win at all costs.

I just don't understand the hate for Israel. I feel like a lot of it echoes the hate for America. "Zionist" is really just another way of saying "colonizer".

[QUOTE=HoopsNY;15026795]Yes, because we've been hearing for 30 years that they're days away from a nuke. The agreement in 2013 was to scrap uranium enrichment once sanctions and their money was lifted. Trump squashed that deal so what did you think was the natural outcome?

And all of this is because Israel ACTUALLY has nukes. So where does this leave everyone? [B]And honestly, who gives a shit. Let them blow each other up, why the hell do we care?[/B] We can't take care of the entire world.

But for some reason we feel the need to bleed our own tax dollars into worldwide conflicts all for the sake of Israel. Iraq war ring a bell? NATO and Libya ring a bell? I'm tired of this garbage and you should be too.[/QUOTE]

Uhh...

Because one of them is an invaluable ally and shares our values, and the other one is ruled by radical islamists???

Are you fukking stupid???

[QUOTE=diamenz;15026749][B][SIZE=4]because we thrive as a commercial superpower, not an imperial one. always have.[/SIZE][/B] peace abroad, prosperity at home. who are we to tell other countries how to live? "if you're not a liberal democracy like us, you're the enemy" is what we convey to the world. look no further than our failed "containment" of russia and the mess that's left us in.

in addition to that, this isn't a unipolar world anymore and we can't seem to want to accept that fact. we think we run the show and can bully everyone else without consequence. we're pushing russia into the arms of our peer competitor superpower in china and the dollar is losing it's standing as the world's reserve currency. there's not very much to be optimistic about in terms of our standing on the world stage.[/QUOTE]

Lmao.

You think the U.S. would be in the position it's in if it weren't for the might of it's military?

:oldlol:

[QUOTE=Baller234;15026876]Lmao.

You think the U.S. would be in the position it's in if it weren't for the might of it's military?

:oldlol:[/QUOTE]

lmao.

you think we can't thrive on the old adage of peace through strength? just to reiterate, i denounced our [I]imperial[/I] tendencies.

...so what you're saying is that this "position" that you say we're in was achieved by our [B]foreign interventions[/B]? now that's interesting.

[QUOTE=Baller234;15026875]Uhh...

Because one of them is an invaluable ally and shares our values, and the other one is ruled by radical islamists???

Are you fukking stupid???[/QUOTE]

when two allied countries share similar interests there's generally no controversy over it. it's when the smaller country, in this case israel, leverages the larger power to act against [I]their[/I] interests is when things get dicey.

as is the case currently in our relationship with israel. I find it funny how you seem to have no issues with how manipulated and bought our government is by this supposed ally of ours.

[QUOTE=Baller234;15026873]Huh? Other countries literally rely on us for protection.

Being the leader of the free world comes with obligations and responsibilities. In this case we have an obligation to maintain order and ensure our position on top. You should be grateful we even have the authority and leverage to police the world, because if we didn't then someone else would be doing it. All these other countries want what we have. They all want to dictate the terms and if given the opportunity, all of them would take it. The world is a poker game, not a PTA meeting. You should be rooting for the west to win at all costs.

I just don't understand the hate for Israel. I feel like a lot of it echoes the hate for America. "Zionist" is really just another way of saying "colonizer".[/QUOTE]

We really need to stay out of it. Let the other countries deal with their own problems. Its not our decision to dictate what other countries need. We can always bolster our military, but not for the sake of others.

[QUOTE=TeflonDonTrump;15026897]We really need to stay out of it. Let the other countries deal with their own problems. [B] Its not our decision to dictate what other countries need. [/B] We can always bolster our military, but not for the sake of others.[/QUOTE]

Uh, yes it is. That is the privilege of being on top. That is what comes with being the big stack at the poker table.

You think we're the only country that doesn't want Iran obtaining a nuclear weapon? You think China wants that? Or Russia? Lol. Nobody benefits from more countries entering the chat when it comes to having nukes. That is what keeps the strong in power.

There's no argument you could possibly make where Iran becoming a nuclear power is in OUR best interest.

[QUOTE=diamenz;15026893]when two allied countries share similar interests there's generally no controversy over it. it's when the smaller country, in this case israel, leverages the larger power to act against [I]their[/I] interests is when things get dicey.

as is the case currently in our relationship with israel. I find it funny how you seem to have no issues with how manipulated and bought our government is by this supposed ally of ours.[/QUOTE]

Uh, we have countless money invested in Israel. We're basically their parent company. We have nothing to gain if they are wiped off the map and the other more radical countries take total control of the region. As we speak Trump is trying to help establish a new order in the middle east and unfortunately Iran under current management makes that harder to achieve. We don't want them having a say.

As for Israel secretly being in control of our government, honestly I don't even think you guys know what you're saying anymore. The story has changed so many times I've lost count and that's just in the last few months alone. Not long ago you guys swore up and down that American soldiers were going to be forced to die on Israel's behalf and that WW3 was on the horizon. What do you know, that didn't happen.

Also I'm just really skeptical of any person that unironically uses the word "zionist" as a derogatory term. Like I said it's no different than referring to Americans as "colonizers". It's rooted in the same resentment.

[QUOTE=diamenz;15026892]lmao.

you think we can't thrive on the old adage of peace through strength? just to reiterate, i denounced our [I]imperial[/I] tendencies.

...so what you're saying is that this "position" that you say we're in was achieved by our [B]foreign interventions[/B]? now that's interesting.[/QUOTE]

America is only on top because of it's military and defense capabilities. Like Tony Stark says in Iron Man, "Peace means having a bigger stick than the other guy..."

I'm sorry that the world is not the peaceful utopia you want it to be. This is the reality of the world. It doesn't mean we have to micromanage what's going on in every country around the world, but yes we absolutely have an obligation to take action when it comes to preserving our place on top of the pecking order.

[QUOTE=Baller234;15026909]Uh, we have countless money invested in Israel. We're basically their parent company. We have nothing to gain if they are wiped off the map and the other more radical countries take total control of the region. [B]As we speak Trump is trying to help establish a new order in the middle east[/B] and unfortunately Iran under current management makes that harder to achieve. We don't want them having a say.

As for Israel secretly being in control of our government, honestly I don't even think you guys know what you're saying anymore. The story has changed so many times I've lost count and that's just in the last few months alone. Not long ago you guys swore up and down that American soldiers were going to be forced to die on Israel's behalf and that WW3 was on the horizon. What do you know, that didn't happen.

Also I'm just really skeptical of any person that unironically uses the word "zionist" as a derogatory term. Like I said it's no different than referring to Americans as "colonizers". It's rooted in the same resentment.[/QUOTE]

This has been attempted for decades now, and for various reasons...

It's always perplexing to me why some people wonder why a lot of people in the area hate the US government. It's no secret.

[QUOTE=ShawkFactory;15026911]This has been attempted for decades now, and for various reasons...

It's always perplexing to me why some people wonder why a lot of people in the area hate the US government. It's no secret.[/QUOTE]

What is the alternative? We should just sit back and let every country develop their own nuclear weapons? It's cool if every country gets to have their own nuke? You don't think that's going to cause more of a problem for us?

Seriously, tell me what would have been the better move when it came to Iran.

[QUOTE=Baller234;15026919]What is the alternative? We should just sit back and let every country develop their own nuclear weapons? It's cool if every country gets to have their own nuke? You don't think that's going to cause more of a problem for us?

Seriously, tell me what would have been the better move when it came to Iran.[/QUOTE]

I don't think that nuclear weapons are being developed by anyone in any capacity other than as a self-defense comfort. Like a standard homeowner owning a shotgun, especially knowing that other owners in larger houses (with mindsets like yours) nearby have one. I don't believe there is any offensive purpose.

You sound awfully like one of those super pro-Vietnam War folks in the 60s.

[QUOTE=ShawkFactory;15026926]I don't think that nuclear weapons are being developed by anyone in any capacity other than as a self-defense comfort. Like a standard homeowner owning a shotgun, especially knowing that other owners in larger houses (with mindsets like yours) nearby have one. I don't believe there is any offensive purpose.[/QUOTE]

So you think it would have been better if US and Israel just laid off and let Iran become a nuclear power?

Yes or no.

[QUOTE=Baller234;15026929]So you think it would have been better if US and Israel just laid off and let Iran become a nuclear power?

Yes or no.[/QUOTE]

The US, yes. Israel can do what they want.

[QUOTE=ShawkFactory;15026931]The US, yes. Israel can do what they want.[/QUOTE]

Wait, what gives Israel the right to disarm Iran and not America?

[QUOTE=Baller234;15026932]Wait, what gives Israel the right to disarm Iran and not America?[/QUOTE]

Oh is that what you took from what I said?

I’m not giving them the right (or not right) to do anything. I’m saying they are free to make whatever decision they want, so long as it doesn’t involve us.

[QUOTE=ShawkFactory;15026936]Oh is that what you took from what I said?

I’m not giving them the right (or not right) to do anything. I’m saying they are free to make whatever decision they want, so long as it doesn’t involve us.[/QUOTE]

Uh, what? If you're saying they're free to make whatever decision they want, then yes you are granting them the right to do something.

In this case, you believe Israel has the right to disarm another country. Okay so if they have the right, why shouldn't America?