Wilt Chamberlain wilted under pressure in the playoffs and finals

How can a top 5 NBA player of all time struggled offensively in the playoffs? His numbers went down as the season progresses.

just like LBJ wilted.

reason I have Wilt behind MJ as GOAT.

I remember first learning about Wilt and his 100 point game and 50 ppg season back in middle school and was confused as to why he didn't get enough GOAT talks. As I got a little older I began to learn about the fast pace in the league back then, his overall failures in the playoffs, & his obsession with stats over winning then I understood.

The craziest stat to me is how he never fouled out of a game. To play over 1000 games and never foul out as a big man is crazy, but it shows me he played more soft once he was near fouling out, players typically play more cautious when they are near fouling out, but I'm sure he took it to another level.

[QUOTE=Lebron23;15033403]How can a top 5 NBA player of all time struggled offensively in the playoffs? His numbers went down as the season progresses.[/QUOTE]

1960 - Div Finals
1962 - Div Finals
1964 - NBA Finals
1965 - Div Finals
1966 - Div Finals
1967 - Championship
1968 = Div Finals
1969 - NBA Finals
1970 - NBA Finals
1971 - Div Finals
1972 - Championship
1973 - NBA Finals

6 time he made it to the Division Finals
4 times he made it to the NBA Finals
2 times he won the title

15 seasons on three different teams, 12 of those years he made a title run. I believe he lost only to teams that had atleast a 2-1 HOFer ratio. If he made the Finals for 1/3rd his career calling his run a "struggle" would be absurd. Losing 7 game series against the Celtics and Knicks doesn't scream under-performance to me.

Your bones and spinal column wilted in the womb.

Wilt Chamberlain's choke jobs PALE in comparison to Lebron's, AKA LeShrivel's, choke jobs - both in quantity and level of choking.

Lebron James is in fact the worst choker in the history of the sport. Suck on that for a while.

Did he? He was a high-volume scorer from his rookie year to the end of the '66 season, he averaged 39.6 ppg in the RS and 32.8 ppg in the POs which is still great. He only played against like 8 teams in the RS, and from looking at his splits he generally averaged the less ppg against the Celtics because they had the personnel to limit his scoring output, and there weren't that many teams so it would look worse on paper if you took away all context and tried to compare his drop-off in scoring from RS to POs as if he faced different teams in the POs every year.

You'd think he "wilted" in '66 for example because he went from averaging 33.5 ppg to 28 in the POs, but he averaged 28 ppg 30 rpg against Boston in the RS and in the POs, so he was on par, or even slightly better because of his increased FG%. He did better against the Celtics in the POs in '65 compared to his RS numbers, from scoring volume to rebounding to his FG% but they still lost. He even had an 80%FG performance in Game 7 and they lost by 1, they also won some close games in that series.

He underperformed in some big games but that happens to most superstars if we go through the history of the league. He was no James Harden or Chris Paul when it comes to choking and underperforming in the POs, to me he gets more hate than anything when he's one of the few ATGs who reinvented himself and ended up leading multiple teams to a title, he just happened to play in an era that had arguably the most stacked team ever relative to the rest of the competition.

[QUOTE=ImKobe;15033467]Did he? He was a high-volume scorer from his rookie year to the end of the '66 season, he averaged 39.6 ppg in the RS and 32.8 ppg in the POs which is still great. He only played against like 8 teams in the RS, and from looking at his splits he generally averaged the less ppg against the Celtics because they had the personnel to limit his scoring output, and there weren't that many teams so it would look worse on paper if you took away all context and tried to compare his drop-off in scoring from RS to POs as if he faced different teams in the POs every year.

You'd think he "wilted" in '66 for example because he went from averaging 33.5 ppg to 28 in the POs, but he averaged 28 ppg 30 rpg against Boston in the RS and in the POs, so he was on par, or even slightly better because of his increased FG%. He did better against the Celtics in the POs in '65 compared to his RS numbers, from scoring volume to rebounding to his FG% but they still lost. He even had an 80%FG performance in Game 7 and they lost by 1, they also won some close games in that series.

He underperformed in some big games but that happens to most superstars if we go through the history of the league. He was no James Harden or Chris Paul when it comes to choking and underperforming in the POs, to me he gets more hate than anything when he's one of the few ATGs who reinvented himself and ended up leading multiple teams to a title, he just happened to play in an era that had arguably the most stacked team ever relative to the rest of the competition.[/QUOTE]


I swear you were making Wilts a choker post years ago citing completely different (overall) stats :oldlol:

[QUOTE=ArbitraryWater;15033469]I swear you were making Wilts a choker post years ago citing completely different (overall) stats :oldlol:[/QUOTE]

I'm sure I've criticized him before for times he did choke but that doesn't mean he still wasn't good overall in his prime. OP says that he struggled offensively in the POs which is clearly false as I pointed out already, his overall PO averages obviously are weighed down by the amount of games he played past his prime as a Laker when there were more teams and rounds, his RS ppg in his early days was also inflated by all the bad teams he faced, Celtics generally held him to a much lower ppg during the season, so it's no surprise an ATG team could limit his scoring opportunities in the POs as well, but his overall efficiency did not suffer that much.

[QUOTE=John8204;15033457]1960 - Div Finals
1962 - Div Finals
1964 - NBA Finals
1965 - Div Finals
1966 - Div Finals
1967 - Championship
1968 = Div Finals
1969 - NBA Finals
1970 - NBA Finals
1971 - Div Finals
1972 - Championship
1973 - NBA Finals

6 time he made it to the Division Finals
4 times he made it to the NBA Finals
2 times he won the title

15 seasons on three different teams, 12 of those years he made a title run. I believe he lost only to teams that had atleast a 2-1 HOFer ratio. If he made the Finals for 1/3rd his career calling his run a "struggle" would be absurd. Losing 7 game series against the Celtics and Knicks doesn't scream under-performance to me.[/QUOTE]

Wilt made the finals 6 times not 4.

So, OP, I take it that 33% is where you draw the line? 40% win percentage is fine, but 33% is where he is allowed to be branded a loser. Right?

[QUOTE=beasted;15033586]So, OP, I take it that 33% is where you draw the line? 40% win percentage is fine, but 33% is where he is allowed to be branded a loser. Right?[/QUOTE]

There were like 9 teams while Wilt was playing. :oldlol:

[QUOTE=beasted;15033585]Wilt made the finals 6 times not 4.[/QUOTE]

Yes he went 2-4, it's why I put divisional, NBA, and title

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;15033589]There were like 9 teams while Wilt was playing. :oldlol:[/QUOTE]

Which meant scarcity of roster spots, lack of player mobility, and having to play the same teams/players all year.

It was a lot harder to build teams around players back then, unlike say the late 80's when you could just rotate your roster to find the right guys to play with MJ.

[QUOTE=John8204;15033686]Yes he went 2-4, it's why I put divisional, NBA, and title



Which meant scarcity of roster spots, lack of player mobility, and having to play the same teams/players all year.

It was a lot harder to build teams around players back then, unlike say the late 80's when you could just rotate your roster to find the right guys to play with MJ.[/QUOTE]

Most of those players wouldn't be able to make a roster spot today.

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;15033423]I remember first learning about Wilt and his 100 point game and 50 ppg season back in middle school and was confused as to why he didn't get enough GOAT talks. As I got a little older I began to learn about the fast pace in the league back then, his overall failures in the playoffs, & [B][SIZE=5]his obsession with stats over winning[/SIZE][/B] then I understood.

The craziest stat to me is how he never fouled out of a game. To play over 1000 games and never foul out as a big man is crazy, but it shows me he played more soft once he was near fouling out, players typically play more cautious when they are near fouling out, but I'm sure he took it to another level.[/QUOTE]


^Coming from the guy who thinks Lebron is some kind of "GOAT"...:roll: Can't make this stuff up.

:lebronamazed:

[QUOTE=Full Court;15033720]^Coming from the guy who thinks Lebron is some kind of "GOAT"...:roll: Can't make this stuff up.

:lebronamazed:[/QUOTE]

Wilt was on camera throwing a fit because someone broke one of his all-star game records. I don't think any great player cared more about his stats/records than Wilt.

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;15033589]There were like 9 teams while Wilt was playing. :oldlol:[/QUOTE]

So are you agreeing because the count of teams in Jordan's time is similar to LeBron's that the 40% looks that much worse?

[QUOTE=beasted;15033734]So are you agreeing because the count of teams in Jordan's time is similar to LeBron's that the 40% looks that much worse?[/QUOTE]

Deranged LeBron hater bringing MJ in this convo. :lol

No top 10 player ever had had a 3 year stretch ('68-'70) who choked as bad as Wilt.

1968 - First player to ever blow a 3-1 lead
1969 - Big favorite while having West & Baylor on his side and still lost to an aging Celtics team
1970 - Lose game 7 of the Finals despite league MVP Reed being injured and scoring 4 points. Wilt went 1-11 on the FT line in that game.

Wilt's FT shooting in the playoffs was actually worse than his regular season numbers as well.

His scoring went down in the playoffs EVERY single year of his career compared to his regular season numbers.

Did not have a single playoff run where he averaged more points compared to his regular season numbers.

Dude was a choker.

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;15033589]There were like 9 teams while Wilt was playing. :oldlol:[/QUOTE]

In other words quality of competition was more highly concentrated back then as opposed to diluted quality of competition with 30 teams. You guys don’t really think this through

[QUOTE=bison;15033741]In other words quality of competition was more highly concentrated back then as opposed to diluted quality of competition with 30 teams. You guys don’t really think this through[/QUOTE]

Yea, nobody is buying that.

[IMG]https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/CKkAAOSwvVZej34p/s-l1200.jpg[/IMG]

This team won 51 games. Bunch of balding white guys.

Think about this: Lebron James has choked more and choked harder than a guy whose actual name is freaking "Wilt."

:roll::roll:

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;15033739]Deranged LeBron hater bringing MJ in this convo. :lol

No top 10 player ever had had a 3 year stretch ('68-'70) who choked as bad as Wilt.

1968 - First player to ever blow a 3-1 lead
1969 - Big favorite while having West & Baylor on his side and still lost to an aging Celtics team
1970 - Lose game 7 of the Finals despite league MVP Reed being injured and scoring 4 points. Wilt went 1-11 on the FT line in that game.

Wilt's FT shooting in the playoffs was actually worse than his regular season numbers as well.

His scoring went down in the playoffs EVERY single year of his career compared to his regular season numbers.

Did not have a single playoff run where he averaged more points compared to his regular season numbers.

Dude was a choker.[/QUOTE]
:pimp:

Wilt didn't choke or wilted under pressure. He just wasn't as good as he's made out to be. There are game footages on Youtube you can watch and judge for yourself.

[QUOTE=iamgine;15033807]Wilt didn't choke or wilted under pressure. He just wasn't as good as he's made out to be. There are game footages on Youtube you can watch and judge for yourself.[/QUOTE]
Ok LeBron23.

[QUOTE=iamgine;15033807]Wilt didn't choke or wilted under pressure. He just wasn't as good as he's made out to be. There are game footages on Youtube you can watch and judge for yourself.[/QUOTE]

He was great in the regular season. But he struggled offensively in the playoffs and NBA finals. His nickname was also the Big Dipper.

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;15033739]Deranged LeBron hater bringing MJ in this convo. :lol
[/QUOTE]

I think it's a fair comparison given the OP's support of a guy with a similar Finals win percentage. Both all-time greats, but, both stricken with a chronic disease of losing in the Finals even with multiple attempts and team hopping. It's a fair comparison even if the thread is about Wilt.

[QUOTE=beasted;15033898]I think it's a fair comparison given the OP's support of a guy with a similar Finals win percentage. Both all-time greats, but, both stricken with a chronic disease of losing in the Finals even with multiple attempts and team hopping. It's a fair comparison even if the thread is about Wilt.[/QUOTE]

LeBron has twice as many chips as Wilt and one of Wilt's chips came when he was already past his prime.

I made this comparison years ago about how bron is pretty much a poor man’s modern day wilt.

Oh the irony

[QUOTE=HylianNightmare;15034006]Oh the irony[/QUOTE]

Exactly. A Bronie fluffer talking about someone wilting under pressure.....:roll:

Wilt never had a game like this with his legacy on the line. Wilt was out there shooting 1-11 from the FT line in similar high pressure games.

[video=youtube;13OBvylyGsM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13OBvylyGsM[/video]

[QUOTE=iamgine;15033807]Wilt didn't choke or wilted under pressure. He just wasn't as good as he's made out to be. There are game footages on Youtube you can watch and judge for yourself.[/QUOTE]

Also the style and minutes he played...yeah you are going to wear down when you are playing against 5 HOFers.

I mean he could have been like the most dominant player of all-time Shaq and got swept 6 times. But going 7 games against the Celtics and Knicks is I guess "wilting".

He had 100 points against the lottery knicks bt[url=https://i.ibb.co/SxWM8PC/IMG-20230805-073843.jpg].[/url]

[QUOTE=Axe;15034383]He had 100 points against the lottery knicks bt[url=https://i.ibb.co/SxWM8PC/IMG-20230805-073843.jpg].[/url][/QUOTE]

Why couldn't LeBron do it.?

[QUOTE=nayte;15034613]Why couldn't LeBron do it.?[/QUOTE]

Cause LeBron didn't play against insurance salesman and cab drivers

[QUOTE=Lebron23;15033882]He was great in the regular season. But he struggled offensively in the playoffs and NBA finals. His nickname was also the Big Dipper.[/QUOTE]

That's not really true. The only Finals he played in his prime he averaged 29 ppg 28 rpg on 51.7% shooting. He averaged 29 points 27 rebounds on 53% shooting vs. that same Boston team in the RS in '64. The league was small and there were only a few good teams in his prime, his stats are inflated from playing those bad teams a lot.

[QUOTE=John8204;15034085]Also the style and minutes he played...yeah you are going to wear down when you are playing against 5 HOFers.

I mean he could have been like the most dominant player of all-time Shaq and got swept 6 times. But going 7 games against the Celtics and Knicks is I guess "wilting".[/QUOTE]

The issue is those guys could deny him the ball. Pretty rare that he shot significantly worse in a Playoff series in his prime, he just didn't get as many shots up, and even if he did at times his teammates weren't doing shit and they still lost.

[QUOTE=ImKobe;15034665]That's not really true. The only Finals he played in his prime he averaged 29 ppg 28 rpg on 51.7% shooting. He averaged 29 points 27 rebounds on 53% shooting vs. that same Boston team in the RS in '64. The league was small and there were only a few good teams in his prime, his stats are inflated from playing those bad teams a lot.
[/QUOTE]

His scoring went down in every postseason. It's true.

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;15034041]Wilt never had a game like this with his legacy on the line. Wilt was out there shooting 1-11 from the FT line in similar high pressure games.

[video=youtube;13OBvylyGsM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13OBvylyGsM[/video][/QUOTE]

Wilt also never choked even close to as hard as Lebron did in 2011. That was the worst choke job in the history of the sport. I'm not sure if you were following basketball back then, so you should educate yourself about it.

[video=youtube;m7GG3Ifxqao]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7GG3Ifxqao[/video]

And you should ESPECIALLY watch this one. This is, in a nutshell, why Lebron has been out of the GOAT conversation since that series.

[video=youtube;7dVrrgW__v8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dVrrgW__v8[/video]

[QUOTE=Full Court;15034721]Wilt also never choked even close to as hard as Lebron did in 2011.[/QUOTE]

Of course he did. He was outscored by Don Nelson in the Finals.

A guy you thought made the HOF for his playing career. :lol

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;15034727]Of course he did. He was outscored by Don Nelson in the Finals.

A guy you thought made the HOF for his playing career. :lol[/QUOTE]

Not even in the same ballpark as 2011.

You can't force somebody to be educated. All you can do is give them the tools. :confusedshrug: