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Shumer got his ass chewed out by fellow Dems back in March for chosing to stay open. Now he's gotta posture and ask for impossible money to provide free health care to all undocumented, illegal immigrants. That's just downright retarded to do that.
So Shumer's got till midnight tonight to decide if he wants to see the headline "DEMS SHUTDOWN GOVERMENT" tomorrow considering their approval numbers are already in the shitter.
Shutdowns are always the result of both parties being unable to reach a compromise. And FYI, Trump's approval numbers aren't that pretty right now either.
We currently have a Republican President, and majority Republican Supreme Court, Senate, House and Governors. Yet somehow the blame is still Democrats?
Makes sense. I think it's pretty awesome that those excellent Republican senators with exceptional business acumen and negotiation can't even convince 5 Democrats to agree.
[QUOTE=beasted;15036017]We currently have a Republican President, and majority Republican Supreme Court, Senate, House and Governors. Yet somehow the blame is still Democrats?
Makes sense. I think it's pretty awesome that those excellent Republican senators with exceptional business acumen and negotiation can't even convince 5 Democrats to agree.[/QUOTE]
they're running the country into the ground and will still find a way to blame democrats.
[QUOTE=beasted;15036017]We currently have a Republican President, and majority Republican Supreme Court, Senate, House and Governors. Yet somehow the blame is still Democrats?
Makes sense. I think it's pretty awesome that those excellent Republican senators with exceptional business acumen and negotiation can't even convince 5 Democrats to agree.[/QUOTE]
Why should Illegal immigrants be given free Healthcare?
[QUOTE=Hey Yo;15036022]Why should Illegal immigrants be given free Healthcare?[/QUOTE]
Why ask a random stranger on a message board and not one of the 53 capable senators why they are so ineffective at convincing just a handful of democrats of what you just said?
1 vote away from releasing the Epstein files and a shutdown happens. lol.
[QUOTE=Hey Yo;15036022]Why should Illegal immigrants be given free Healthcare?[/QUOTE]
It has nothing to do with illegal immigrant healthcare.
A) a Supreme Court decision already gives them care via emergency rooms.
B) cuts to ACA subsidies will affect literally millions of middle-class Americans, mostly in rural Trump-lovin areas.
Combined with exploding fuel & grocery prices, tariff impacts, and the complete collapse of the grain export market, rural America is f#cked.
[IMG]https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61Yx+Eyt9EL._AC_SL1500_.jpg[/IMG]
Damn, the meltdown has begun.
Democrats are low iq with low impulse control and can’t think further than their last step behind. They actively hate America and the American people. Republicans in power probably do too but they at least have the common sense to not fully let their ass show.
[QUOTE=warriorfan;15036067]Democrats are low iq with low impulse control and cant think further than their last step behind. They actively hate America and the American people. Republicans in power probably do too but they at least have the common sense to not fully let their ass show.[/QUOTE]
Your mindset is the entire problem with this country summarized.
Someone knows something is bad, but they go along with it anyway as the status quo. This insane logic trap exists in politics, food choices, relationships, etc.
Anyway, the fault of the government shutdown is squarely on Republicans. We have professional litigators, former lawyers, business leaders skilled in negotiating, people who graduated from Ivy League schools, and people with no moral code who regularly break the law for under-the-table and backdoor deals. The fact that you didn't have a collection of these Republicans figure out a way to sway a handful of Democrats is a bitter pill of failure that only they need to swallow and own.
They didn't care enough about the American people to make sure there would not be a shutdown. Congress and the president did whatever was needed to save TikTok, but couldn't ensure people can have access to meaningful services and jobs.
[QUOTE=beasted;15036024]Why ask a random stranger on a message board and not one of the 53 capable senators why they are so ineffective at convincing just a handful of democrats of what you just said?[/QUOTE]
Your party's in a free fall, chico. The Shumer shutdown is doing you no favors. The far left got him on a leash after the backlash he received in March. He's afraid [b]A[/b]ll [b]O[/b]ut [b]C[/b]razy is gonna take his spot.
[QUOTE=Hey Yo;15036091]Your party's in a free fall, chico. The Shumer shutdown is doing you no favors. The far left got him on a leash after the backlash he received in March. He's afraid [b]A[/b]ll [b]O[/b]ut [b]C[/b]razy is gonna take his spot.[/QUOTE]
There's an Independent party? When are the primaries?
I'm the biggest advocate you'll ever find of dissolving the party system entirely.
Ahhhhhh... the old independent trick where you can shit on whichever side and then say "I'm an independent, I don't care about __________"
Nobody's fooled.
[QUOTE=Hey Yo;15036106]Ahhhhhh... the old independent trick where you can shit on whichever side and then say "I'm an independent, I don't care about __________"
Nobody's fooled.[/QUOTE]
I would expect a simple person to only see things in analog. Either Democrat or Republican. 0 or 1. Just like a robot. Stay alseep in the matrix, my guy.
Are you ok with giving ACA subsidies with no income limits? The crazy COVID ACA government spending needs to stop. The Democrats are disingenuous in saying that these emergency subsidies are healthcare being cut when they expire at year's end.
Individual coverage exchange plans created by the Affordable Care Act (ACA) have a glaring problem: [B]nearly 12 million enrollees, or 35 percent of all exchange enrollees in 2024, do not use their benefits at all.[/B]*
Are you ok with 12 million enrollees who don't need benefits getting subsidies on the back of taxpayers and driving up health care costs?
* [url]https://paragoninstitute.org/private-health/ghostbusting-aca-fraud-millions-who-dont-use-their-health-insurance-expose-abuse-in-the-program/[/url]
LOL pretending to care about money all of a sudden, not like the turd president hasn't been spending like crazy on ICE, his new airplane and the white house upgrades all because of his ego.
and let's not even discuss the tremendous costs of elon's firings and then re-hiring :facepalm
[QUOTE=rmt;15036114]Are you ok with giving ACA subsidies with no income limits? The crazy COVID ACA government spending needs to stop. The Democrats are disingenuous in saying that these emergency subsidies are healthcare being cut when they expire at year's end.
Individual coverage exchange plans created by the Affordable Care Act (ACA) have a glaring problem: [B]nearly 12 million enrollees, or 35 percent of all exchange enrollees in 2024, do not use their benefits at all.[/B]*
Are you ok with 12 million enrollees who don't need benefits getting subsidies on the back of taxpayers and driving up health care costs?
* [url]https://paragoninstitute.org/private-health/ghostbusting-aca-fraud-millions-who-dont-use-their-health-insurance-expose-abuse-in-the-program/[/url][/QUOTE]
I'll be honest, I don't know enough of about these ACA extensions to answer that. But, I think I have what I believe is a VERY FAIR and PRACTICAL response question:
As of October 1, 2025, DOGE claims to have saved the country $206B. According to Trump, his tariffs are projected to make "trillions" of dollars for the US government. Lastly, according to Trump, the GOP Senate and GOP House, the Big Beautiful Bill will significantly cut government costs and stimulate the economy. With these supposed wins ALREADY in place, do you think it is JUSTIFIED to shut the government down over these expenses? Will allowing these concessions TOTALLY UNDO the other savings? In the simplest version of my question: are these costs expected to cost the government multiples of trillions?
Middle School Civics classes teaches us that Congress controls the purse strings. Republicans control both branches of congress congress, as well as the White House.
If they can't get a budget through it reflects on their poor leadership.
When I said you MAGAS were poorly educated, I did not think it applied to your middle school education.
[QUOTE=rmt;15036114]Are you ok with giving ACA subsidies with no income limits? The crazy COVID ACA government spending needs to stop. The Democrats are disingenuous in saying that these emergency subsidies are healthcare being cut when they expire at year's end.
Individual coverage exchange plans created by the Affordable Care Act (ACA) have a glaring problem: [B]nearly 12 million enrollees, or 35 percent of all exchange enrollees in 2024, do not use their benefits at all.[/B]*
[B]Are you ok with 12 million enrollees who don't need benefits getting subsidies on the back of taxpayers and driving up health care costs?[/B]
* [url]https://paragoninstitute.org/private-health/ghostbusting-aca-fraud-millions-who-dont-use-their-health-insurance-expose-abuse-in-the-program/[/url][/QUOTE]
Sure, this is an issue. But the problems extends off of the other arm because how to you qualify who needs or doesn't need benefits?
If one doesn't receive any healthcare delivery the previous year, should they only be eligible to receive affordable care at the time of car accident? Or are they, and/or their providers, just screwed?
Stripping this will also open up a can of worms as well. If we're essentially providing free healthcare for those that can't afford it then healthcare costs for the rest of us will sky-rocket too.
[QUOTE=beasted;15036119]I'll be honest, I don't know enough of about these ACA extensions to answer that. But, I think I have what I believe is a VERY FAIR and PRACTICAL response question:
As of October 1, 2025, DOGE claims to have saved the country $206B. According to Trump, his tariffs are projected to make "trillions" of dollars for the US government. Lastly, according to Trump, the GOP Senate and GOP House, the Big Beautiful Bill will significantly cut government costs and stimulate the economy. With these supposed wins ALREADY in place, do you think it is JUSTIFIED to shut the government down over these expenses? Will allowing these concessions TOTALLY UNDO the other savings? In the simplest version of my question: are these costs expected to cost the government multiples of trillions?[/QUOTE]
Well, maybe you should find out about [B][U]WHY[/U][/B] these ACA extensions were instituted (and phased out at the end of this year) to decide if they should be continued.
IMHO, all money from tariffs, government cost cuts and gains from stimulating the economy - should go to reducing our debt. I don't happen to take everything that Trump exaggerates as true. Why should anything go toward continuing something that was meant to be TEMPORARY because of COVID?
Our taxpayer dollars should not go toward paying for ACA subsidies for people with [B][U]NO regard to income limits[/U][/B]. This is exactly how government spending explodes. They continue a once-in-a-lifetime "help"/emergency and keep expanding forever.
AI Overview
ACA Income Thresholds 2025: Subsidies Explained
In 2014, the ACA's premium tax credits, or subsidies, were available to U.S. citizens and legal residents with household incomes between [B]100% and 400% of the federal poverty level[/B] (FPL), who did not have access to other affordable coverage. The exact income amounts varied by household size, with a [B]single person's income falling between approximately $11,500 and $46,000[/B], and a[B] family of four's between roughly $23,500 and $94,000[/B]. The subsidy amount was on a sliding scale, with people paying a maximum percentage of their income for a benchmark health plan, and the government covering the rest
POTUS: Republican
SCOTUS: Republican
House: Republican
Senate: Republican
Congress: Republican
All of the Government: Republican
"Democrats are shutting the Government down"
[QUOTE=rmt;15036144]Well, maybe you should find out about [B][U]WHY[/U][/B] these ACA extensions were instituted (and phased out at the end of this year) to decide if they should be continued.
IMHO, all money from tariffs, government cost cuts and gains from stimulating the economy - should go to reducing our debt. I don't happen to take everything that Trump exaggerates as true. Why should anything go toward continuing something that was meant to be TEMPORARY because of COVID?
Our taxpayer dollars should not go toward paying for ACA subsidies for people with [B][U]NO regard to income limits[/U][/B]. This is exactly how government spending explodes. They continue a once-in-a-lifetime "help"/emergency and keep expanding forever.
AI Overview
ACA Income Thresholds 2025: Subsidies Explained
In 2014, the ACA's premium tax credits, or subsidies, were available to U.S. citizens and legal residents with household incomes between [B]100% and 400% of the federal poverty level[/B] (FPL), who did not have access to other affordable coverage. The exact income amounts varied by household size, with a [B]single person's income falling between approximately $11,500 and $46,000[/B], and a[B] family of four's between roughly $23,500 and $94,000[/B]. The subsidy amount was on a sliding scale, with people paying a maximum percentage of their income for a benchmark health plan, and the government covering the rest[/QUOTE]
How can politicians not believe people will lose healthcare with this change
I pay a lot of money for all types of insurance which I never file a claim for. Not using it doesn't mean I shouldn't have it.
All of my life I had insurance coverage. But, one single time I had just started a new job that had a 90-day waiting period, and I decided to chance it. That one 3 month span without insurance is when I fell and broke my arm costing me thousands out of pocket. Lucky for me I am financially capable of paying that, but I can imagine someone within percentages of the FPL might be bankrupted and/or credit ruined for years by that same accident. Is that what we want for fellow Americans?
If this is only temporary, it seems like even more reason for Republicans to negotiate and get a deal done. Again, they only have a handful to convince.
[QUOTE=Bill Gates;15036146]POTUS: Republican
SCOTUS: Republican
House: Republican
Senate: Republican
Congress: Republican
All of the Government: Republican
"Democrats are shutting the Government down"[/QUOTE]
:oldlol:
If I understand the dispute here, this is about Republicans demanding that someone making between $11k and $46k buy their own insurance?
I could not imagine trying to make it in this life on $46k. I could never think "Look at those people mooching off my tax dollars so they can see a doctor".
My employer-covered insurance would be almost 10% of that person's salary.
[QUOTE=beasted;15036147]How can politicians not believe people will lose healthcare with [B]this change[/B]
I pay a lot of money for all types of insurance which I never file a claim for. Not using it doesn't mean I shouldn't have it.
All of my life I had insurance coverage. But, one single time I had just started a new job that had a 90-day waiting period, and I decided to chance it. That one 3 month span without insurance is when I fell and broke my arm costing me thousands out of pocket. Lucky for me I am financially capable of paying that, but I can imagine someone within percentages of the FPL might be bankrupted and/or credit ruined for years by that same accident. Is that what we want for fellow Americans?
If this is only temporary, it seems like even more reason for Republicans to negotiate and get a deal done. Again, they only have a handful to convince.[/QUOTE]
There is no change. If things stay as is (meaning passing a clean, continuing resolution), the extended subsidies WILL expire at the end of the year (as they were originally intended to) - they were brought into existence because of the once-in-a-lifetime event (COVID).
Why not just say one is for universal healthcare? Or that we shouldn't have ANY insurance - that SOMEONE (meaning the taxpayer) will be responsible/pay up should any disaster happen? Can we afford that? That's UTOPIA.
[QUOTE=beasted;15036149]If I understand the dispute here, this is about Republicans demanding that someone making between $11k and $46k buy their own insurance?
I could not imagine trying to make it in this life on $46k. I could never think "Look at those people mooching off my tax dollars so they can see a doctor".
My employer-covered insurance would be almost 10% of that person's salary.[/QUOTE]
No, you don't understand the dispute here - someone who makes between $11K and $46K is exactly who the original ACA subsidies were meant for - not someone with unlimited income.
IMO, the republicans will get that handful to vote for continuing resolution. The longer this shutdown goes on, the more government workers (mostly democrats) will get ansty and pressure Democrats and the more reason Trump has to say - see we really don't need so many government workers and fire/lay them off.
[QUOTE=rmt;15036156]There is no change. If things stay as is (meaning passing a clean, continuing resolution), the extended subsidies WILL expire at the end of the year (as they were originally intended to) - they were brought into existence because of the once-in-a-lifetime event (COVID).
Why not just say one is for universal healthcare? Or that we shouldn't have ANY insurance - that SOMEONE (meaning the taxpayer) will be responsible/pay up should any disaster happen? Can we afford that? That's UTOPIA.[/QUOTE]
How is it universal healthcare when the total ACA enrollees are 24 million of our 340 million population? Have we solved the healthcare affordability problem or do you think that's not an important consideration to resolve first?
For 15 years Trump has claimed he has a plan.
[video]https://youtube.com/shorts/o_x8DVhmR9o?si=oHC4ZEJrtGb_w6GT[/video]
I pay almost $4k a year ($328 per month) in health insurance, which would murder someone making between $12k and $46k.
Do you believe we should get rid of Medicare and Medicaid too since government-sponsored healthcare costs money?
[QUOTE=rmt;15036157]No, you don't understand the dispute here - someone who makes between $11K and $46K is exactly who the original ACA subsidies were meant for - not someone with unlimited income.[/QUOTE]
This makes zero sense since there is an income limit to qualify for health insurance marketplace plans subsidies. I don't understand anything of what you've tried explaining
[QUOTE=beasted;15036161]How is it universal healthcare when the total ACA enrollees are 24 million of our 340 million population? Have we solved the healthcare affordability problem or do you think that's not an important consideration to resolve first?
For 15 years Trump has claimed he has a plan.
[video]https://youtube.com/shorts/o_x8DVhmR9o?si=oHC4ZEJrtGb_w6GT[/video]
I pay almost $4k a year ($328 per month) in health insurance, which would murder someone making between $12k and $46k.
Do you believe we should get rid of Medicare and Medicaid too since government-sponsored healthcare costs money?[/QUOTE]
I did not say that ACA is universal health care. My comment on universal health care was in reference to your 3 month uncovered insurance period and ShawkFactory's comment about how do you qualify who needs or doesn't need benefits.
I believe that Medicare age should be raised for younger people (as we are all living longer) in order to try to save/preserve the program. I also believe that Medicaid should be for people who it was originally created for - children, pregnant women, disabled and elderly with income limits - not young, single, able-bodied men.
I think Social Security (and Medicare funds) should be invested in low-cost S&P 500 index funds (kinda like Australia's retirement system and Canada Pension Plan do) instead of Treasury securities - we would probably have a surplus instead of the upcoming deficit. Also, the cap on income for SS should be lifted.
[QUOTE=beasted;15036162]This makes zero sense since there is [B][U]an income limit to qualify for health insurance marketplace plans subsidies[/U][/B]. I don't understand anything of what you've tried explaining[/QUOTE]
You are mistaken - there is NO income limit to qualify for aca subsidies - google "covid aca subsidies":
Enhanced Affordable Care Act (ACA) subsidies, often referred to as "COVID-era subsidies," were initially established by the American Rescue Plan Act of 2021 to mitigate the economic impact of the pandemic on health insurance affordability.
These temporary measures significantly expanded financial assistance for ACA Marketplace plans by [B]increasing subsidy amounts and [U]eliminating the income cap for eligibility[/U], allowing individuals earning [U]above 400% of the federal poverty level (FPL) to qualify for premium tax credits[/U].[/B]
The enhancements were later extended through the end of 2025 by the Inflation Reduction Act.
As a result of these expanded subsidies, ACA Marketplace enrollment nearly doubled, rising from about 12 million in 2021 to a record 24.2 million in 2025.
In 2024, over 21 million people enrolled in ACA plans, with 91% receiving substantial subsidies that reduced their average monthly premium from $477 to just $124.
For individuals earning up to 150% of the FPL, health insurance became available at $0 out-of-pocket cost.
These [B]enhanced subsidies are set to expire on December 31, 2025, unless Congress acts to extend them[/B]
Is AOC the one who's directing the shutdown? Don't ask Pelosi
[I]REPORTER: There was a thought from the Republicans that AOC is directing this, and she said that senators are welcome to go to her office directly. Is she driving that?
PELOSI: Why are you saying such a ridiculous thing?[/I]
[url]https://www.mediaite.com/media/news/why-are-you-saying-such-a-ridiculous-thing-nancy-pelosi-rebukes-reporter-asking-if-gop-should-negotiate-with-aoc/[/url].
[url]https://x.com/greg_price11/status/1973410351103300028?s=19[/url]
:oldlol:
[QUOTE=rmt;15036168]I did not say that ACA is universal health care. My comment on universal health care was in reference to your 3 month uncovered insurance period and ShawkFactory's comment about how do you qualify who needs or doesn't need benefits.
I believe that Medicare age should be raised for younger people (as we are all living longer) in order to try to save/preserve the program. I also believe that Medicaid should be for people who it was originally created for - children, pregnant women, disabled and elderly with income limits - not young, single, able-bodied men.
I think Social Security (and Medicare funds) should be invested in low-cost S&P 500 index funds (kinda like Australia's retirement system and Canada Pension Plan do) instead of Treasury securities - we would probably have a surplus instead of the upcoming deficit. Also, the cap on income for SS should be lifted.[/QUOTE]
And raise the age for SS.
[QUOTE=Hey Yo;15036207]Is AOC the one who's directing the shutdown? Don't ask Pelosi
[I]REPORTER: There was a thought from the Republicans that AOC is directing this, and she said that senators are welcome to go to her office directly. Is she driving that?
PELOSI: Why are you saying such a ridiculous thing?[/I]
[URL]https://www.mediaite.com/media/news/why-are-you-saying-such-a-ridiculous-thing-nancy-pelosi-rebukes-reporter-asking-if-gop-should-negotiate-with-aoc/[/URL].
[URL]https://x.com/greg_price11/status/1973410351103300028?s=19[/URL]
:oldlol:[/QUOTE]
I thought Obama did it. :rolleyes: :oldlol:
[IMG]https://i.redd.it/f2truz1dnpsf1.jpeg[/IMG]
This while GOP is blaming the "radical left" on government websites. :oldlol:
[QUOTE=BurningHammer;15036222][IMG]https://i.redd.it/f2truz1dnpsf1.jpeg[/IMG]
This while GOP is blaming the "radical left" on government websites. :oldlol:[/QUOTE]
My guess is the blame on the radical left is coming from the HC policies they are coming to the table with.
But even still...silly to blame democrats for the shutdown. That's like a dude hitting his wife and saying she made him.
[IMG]https://i.redd.it/bpzzs0vagpsf1.png[/IMG]
:roll::roll::roll:
[QUOTE=ShawkFactory;15036224]My guess is the blame on the radical left is coming from the HC policies they are coming to the table with.
But even still...silly to blame democrats for the shutdown. That's like a dude hitting his wife and saying she made him.[/QUOTE]
Republicans are solely to blame? Why do you say that?
[QUOTE=Hey Yo;15036227]Republicans are solely to blame? Why do you say that?[/QUOTE]
Not solely, I suppose.
But given that they own all 3 branches at the moment it seems like there is definitely something that could have been done here. And it certainly isn't being shut down by the Democrats as your OP suggests.