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You have this big standoff at Rogers house, Dr. Dre wants to kill Jake right then & there but Alonzo wants to keep him alive.
only moments later he drops Jake off with the Mexicans to kill him.... and pays them too.
Why take the extra step? Just kill him at Rogers House.
Doesn't make any sense. Maybe I need to watch the movie again, because why was Jake even needed at all?
Great movie.... but why is Jake even needed in the first place? He's only a liability to the entire operation.
When they killed that old guy in the house, Alonzo knew Jake wasn't going to help cover it up, he refused to take his share of the drug money.
Wasn’t the original plan where Alonzo was planning on convincing Jake to shoot Roger? Then after the shooting he would get drug tested and have PCP and alcohol in his system. Alonzo then can pin it on Jake and take Roger’s money. The plan gets ****ed up a bit when Jake won’t shoot Roger. I think Jake doesn’t take money either. Or maybe he does reluctantly. Been awhile since I’ve seen it.
Practically speaking I think it would be a much bigger administrative pain in the ass to have an officer die on the scene at Roger's. Interviews, paper work, he would have to feign emotional distress etc and he was on a midnight deadline to finish getting all the money together. Cant be bogged down by all the scrutiny of an officer dying in the line of duty.
If he lets the Mexicans kill him it probably doesnt even come out that Jakes dead for at least a few days.
[QUOTE=warriorfan;15039824]Wasn’t the original plan where Alonzo was planning on convincing Jake to shoot Roger? Then after the shooting he would get drug tested and have PCP and alcohol in his system. Alonzo then can pin it on Jake and take Roger’s money. The plan gets ****ed up a bit when Jake won’t shoot Roger. I think Jake doesn’t take money either. Or maybe he does reluctantly. Been awhile since I’ve seen it.[/QUOTE]
Yea dude.... it doesn't make any sense,
yes the PCP somehow plays a role in the plan.... but you didn't need a new guy (Jake) to begin with.
They could've taken down Roger without Jake, Alonzo could've gotten the Russians paid easily, but bringing in a new guy created all kinds of unneeded drama and work for Alonzo.
They could've raided Roger's house and taken the full $4 million and not even called it in.
I love the movie... but it's kind of a stupid plot if you think about it.
[QUOTE=Doomsday Dallas;15039828]Yea dude.... it doesn't make any sense,
yes the PCP somehow plays a role in the plan.... but you didn't need a new guy (Jake) to begin with.
They could've taken down Roger without Jake, Alonzo could've gotten the Russians paid easily, but bringing in a new guy created all kinds of unneeded drama and work for Alonzo.
They could've raided Roger's house and taken the full $4 million and not even called it in.
I love the movie... but it's kind of a stupid plot if you think about it.[/QUOTE]
Jake got assigned to him that day. I don’t think it was even Alonzo’s choice to get a new parter that day. Maybe it was. Regardless he thought it would be easier to frame it on a new guy rather than taking down one of his own crew.
I guess they could raid Roger in the middle of the night completely off the books. But then you run some more risks with that.
Plus we don’t know the exacts but Alonzo was seemingly under a tight timetable. Maybe he didn’t have time to wait till the middle of the night for the stealth raid.
Alonzo chose the hidden in plain sight route. Frame the kid. They might have planned on killing him at a later time. But they probably didn’t have too. It was gonna be Alonzo’s word against Jake’s and Jake would have drugs in his system according to toxology plus Alonzo is pretty much a made man with the Department. They could have taken the 4 mill and left 100k for the raid amount then pin the murder on Jake.
I don’t obsess over plot details too much, as long as it’s not glaring and the rest of the movie is good I can go along with it. I never saw any plot holes that were jarring with Training Day.
I love Training Day, but besides the improbability of all that crazy shit happening in one day, it's obviously a massive flaw that on the most important day of his life, Alonzo would bring along Jake when he literally needs this money to save his life. It's a plot hole the movie is forced to have to justify it's existence.
The one thing I never understood about this movie is, when they go to Roger's, Alonzo makes an intentional effort to ensure they check out tools through the department so they can dig up his money through the floor. However, their plan is that when entering the house Roger opens fire and shoots one of the officers, who kill him returning fire.
In this case, how did they explain or justify there being a massive hole in the floor? Do they tell investigators that after an officer getting shot they proceeded to dig up his money for several minutes through the floor anyway, and managed to do so before the ambulance arrived? Alonzo also leaves several cigarettes at the scene while they were digging.
Unless there's something I'm missing about this scene, that seems like a pretty big plot hole to me.
You can pick through virtually any movie ever and analyze it to death like that. The issues with the movie aren't so far gone that they completely break the suspension of disbelief. Just enjoy them for what they are.
I mean what kind of movie would it be if the plot was Denzel owes money to russian mob --> Denzel murders drug dealer for his stash --> Denzel pays Russian mob on time.
That would be a boring ass movie.
The dynamic between him and Jake made the film. And like others said it could've been a rookie cop just happened to be assigned as his partner that day, and he could be framed for everything as a cover up. Killing him at Roger's would've brought extra heat. The Mexicans would've made him dissappear obviously, there'd never be a body found.
When Jake refuses to take the money, Alonzo could have killed Jake right there, and declared that Roger shot him. Thier plan all along was to frame it as standoff at the door between cops and Roger. Looks like it can be disregarded as a plot hole because it could just be viewed as a simple human error of them not thinking to do that when they should have. They were not preparred for it.
The biggest plot hole is listed as thier plan of framing it as a doorway standoff making zero sense when the floor is chainsawed up and there is a massive hole to explain, as already pointed out by SouBeachTalents.
[QUOTE=Off the Court;15039904]When Jake refuses to take the money, Alonzo could have killed Jake right there, and declared that Roger shot him. Thier plan all along was to frame it as standoff at the door between cops and Roger. Looks like it can be disregarded as a plot hole because it could just be viewed as a simple human error of them not thinking to do that when they should have. They were not preparred for it.
The biggest plot hole is listed as thier plan of framing it as a doorway standoff making zero sense when the floor is chainsawed up and there is a massive hole to explain, as already pointed out by SouBeachTalents.[/QUOTE]
The implications of the movie suggest the department would look the other way on the money thing. Corrupt NYPD and LAPD back in the day used to shake drug dealers down all the time. In real life. Explaining away a dead rookie traffic cop at the scene? Much harder. That will raise alarms. Its actually not a plot hole at all. Outsourcing the execution to the Mexicans was another layer of the cover up.
[QUOTE=tpols;15039905]The implications of the movie suggest the department would look the other way on the money thing. Corrupt NYPD and LAPD back in the day used to shake drug dealers down all the time. In real life. Explaining away a dead rookie traffic cop at the scene? Much harder. That will raise alarms. Its actually not a plot hole at all. Outsourcing the execution to the Mexicans was another layer of the cover up.[/QUOTE]
I do not think it is true plot hole either, but them not accounting for having to explain the massive hole in the floor is.
That said I am not sure having to explain "a dead rookie traffic cop" that he was supposed to be looking after would have been any easier the Mexican way. Alonzo would not have been able to simply declare that Jake went off on his own after work or something like that due to the fact that Jake was in contract with his wife who knew he was still working. This rabbit hole is a little to deep for this movie though. You have to suspend logic and just enjoy.
Yeah. As some have already said, the real answer to this question is "it's a movie." Not every single little detail will be consistent.
But these ones were fairly minor as movies go.
As opposed to something like The Game, which is basically just one single continuous enormous plot hole.
Another thing to consider is that Alonzo and his crew plus the corrupt faction of the LAPD…aren’t that great of masterminds. Alonzo was obviously super desperate and under immense pressure. He wasn’t operating at his best. Basically just play it by ear and hope shit goes right because if not he’s a dead man. That was all he could have done at that point.
He didn’t have time to plan everything out like an Ocean’s 11 movie. He had to just get it done. Even if there were a few holes with their version of events during the Roger raid, Alonzo’s ties with the corrupt faction of the LAPD would have been able to smooth it over.
When the Mexicans say Alonzo got in over his head…it’s explaining that he ****ed with guys (Russian Mob) that aren’t under the subservience of the LAPD. 99/100 times Alonzo is a made man through his LAPD connections…But in this case he ****ed with people where all that power went out the window…And he was basically on his own at that point to try to figure it all out.
[QUOTE=FultzNationRISE;15039920]As opposed to something like The Game, which is basically just one single continuous enormous plot hole.[/QUOTE]
lmao.
[QUOTE=warriorfan;15039939]Another thing to consider is that Alonzo and his crew plus the corrupt faction of the LAPD…aren’t that great of masterminds. Alonzo was obviously super desperate and under immense pressure. He wasn’t operating at his best. Basically just play it by ear and hope shit goes right because if not he’s a dead man. That was all he could have done at that point.
He didn’t have time to plan everything out like an Ocean’s 11 movie. He had to just get it done. Even if there were a few holes with their version of events during the Roger raid, Alonzo’s ties with the corrupt faction of the LAPD would have been able to smooth it over.
When the Mexicans say Alonzo got in over his head…it’s explaining that he ****ed with guys (Russian Mob) that aren’t under the subservience of the LAPD. 99/100 times Alonzo is a made man through his LAPD connections…[B]But in this case he ****ed with people where all that power went out the window…And he was basically on his own at that point to try to figure it all out.[/B][/QUOTE]
Exactly.
It really accentuates the answer to OPs question even further. When youre in a panic for your life... even as a career mastermind and killer with that timer on your head things become more frantic.
Despite that he made the right decision. Outsourcing to the Mexicans for the hit was fool proof outside the little detail that Jake happened to save the muchachos niece in that street scene that had nothing to do with anything.
You want to talk about plot holes? Thats the biggest one. So you happen to save a teenage girl who also happens to be the niece of the Mexican guy outsourced to kill you all at the same time?
:lol
Now as they say... "This is some trippy shit holmes.........."
[QUOTE=tpols;15039963]Exactly.
It really accentuates the answer to OPs question even further. When youre in a panic for your life... even as a career mastermind and killer with that timer on your head things become more frantic.
Despite that he made the right decision. Outsourcing to the Mexicans for the hit was fool proof outside the little detail that Jake happened to save the muchachos niece in that street scene that had nothing to do with anything.
You want to talk about plot holes? Thats the biggest one. So you happen to save a teenage girl who also happens to be the niece of the Mexican guy outsourced to kill you all at the same time?
:lol
Now as they say... "This is some trippy shit holmes.........."[/QUOTE]
That was to be seen as the karma of doing the right thing and being a "good" cop saving his life.
[QUOTE=Off the Court;15039994]That was to be seen as the karma of doing the right thing and being a "good" cop saving his life.[/QUOTE]
Thanks Siskel.