Has Shai passed Luka? If so, when? (impact as a player + all-time)

I'm sure this thread has previously been made, but there was a Reddit post about it today, and it got me thinking. Has Shai passed Luka? If so, when? I mean it, both as a current player (goodness/impact on the game) but also all-time in a legacy sense. It's an interesting player comparison because Luka burst onto the scene while Shai took a few years to develop. Two prospects from the same draft, an early bloomer who hasn't really improved all that much since 2019-20, and a late bloomer with consistent and steady progress over a number of years.

Luka may have gotten to 95%+ of what he is now by year 2, but Shai's incremental approach has led him to arguably greater heights. I'm thinking about this with Cooper Flagg in mind.

Shai took a step up starting in 2022-23. He arguably outplayed Luka (injured?) in the 2023-24 WCSF series. He won an MVP, FMVP, and NBA Championship in 2024-25. Seems like if he did pass him as a player, it might have been 2024. For resume/legacy/all-time ranking, after 2025 with the accolades.

I think in the playoffs, gun to my head I'd still take Luka. He's just a more unstoppable offensive force typically.

But I wouldnt argue with people taking SGA. Maturity and leadership wise he's more dependable day in and day out than Doncic. And obviously the defensive disparity is a factor as well, although I don't think offense and defense weigh equally in these individual comparisons the way some here do.

In terms of comparing people by accolades then I guess it does have to be SGA at this point, although I've never cared about that stuff.

Swap them and which team gets better? Which gets worse? I rest my case. You already know.

[QUOTE=Yes or No;15042762]Swap them and which team gets better? Which gets worse? I rest my case. You already know.[/QUOTE]

You think the Lakers get better?

He's passed him with accolades, but I don't think Shai could do what Luka did in the 2024 playoffs.

I consider Luka to be an overall better player and a higher "floor raiser." I believe that all other things being equal, he could carry a team much further than SGA could under the same circumstances. But if I have to consider all time rankings which does factor in accolades and awards, SGA is presently ever so slightly higher in terms of all time rankings.

Keep in mind, that we're not comparing a role player or an average player who just so happened to obtain accolades simply because he was on a good team to a superstar who has not been able to achieve said team success just yet. We are comparing two elite players against each other. So, while again, I consider Luka to be a better individual player, SGA is individually good enough himself to where Luka's edge does not quite trump the accolade disparity as it pertains their all time rankings.

With that being said, they are, as of this stage of their careers essentially in the same tier to me though, and five years from now everything could be completely different.

Shai plays defense. He's been better than him for years. He also outplays him h2h almost everytime they play for the stat geeks

[QUOTE=Mask the Embiid;15042797]Shai plays defense. He's been better than him for years. He also outplays him h2h almost everytime they play for the stat geeks[/QUOTE]

Ok, but replace the two and is Luka's defense really an issue for OKC with the guys he'd have around him? Their offense would be a lot better with his playmaking.

Doncic has a much higher ceiling on offense. I don't think SGA's individual defense matters that much in this NBA. If this was 10 years ago Shai would probably be slightly better but Doncic can put up 35 a game while really struggling to make any shots outside 16 ft. He's shooting ~95% at the rim thus far :lol .

SGA is just plain a better player than Luka. Luka has the edge on offense, albeit a very slight one, but SGA is not a liability on defense like Luka is.

Was luka ever ahead of shai? 2 way player in shape vs a guy other teams put on an island on d and is a fatass

Luka has had a great start but I think it’s pretty clear at the moment that Shai is better. Just so consistent and what he does isn’t really stoppable, just have to hope he has an off shooting night.

I’ll never call him an elite defender but he plays very well within the defensive structure they have and has great instincts on that end.

If you’re asking me who I want right now it’s not even a question for me. Luka will have the spectacular sometimes but will also get frustrated and/or winded. None of that with Shai.

Shai is more consistent.
More boring.
Less entertaining.
But more dependable.
Shai might blow up for an efficient 44 every so often,
but Shai can’t explode for 70.
Shai doesn’t go on team-crushing 15-4 runs by himself.
Shai doesn’t score 25 in a 40pt first quarter and demoralize teams a few times a month.

BTW:
Luka’s game winner and buzzer beater resume at 26 is already top 5 all time.
If I want to play it safe … Shai

If I want to gamble for a higher peak, greater glory, and some lower lows, Luka.

How big an issue is this?

[IMG]https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSog0I3ynsFenGYL2HxD5ynvH37Ap3TOZeM_5V2e8Ofig&s=10[/IMG]

Is this a joke? Who still thinks Luka is better at this point? :oldlol:

Luka holds onto the ball all possession, doesn't play defense and whines like a baby half the game. Worst body language I've ever seen from a star talent.

It shouldn't even be up for debate. I'm not as high on Luka as everyone else and there are few other players I would take before him as well, but SGA isn't even a debate.

[QUOTE=Im Still Ballin;15042853]How big an issue is this?

[IMG]https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSog0I3ynsFenGYL2HxD5ynvH37Ap3TOZeM_5V2e8Ofig&s=10[/IMG][/QUOTE]

It worked for the Mavs. They won 2 of the 3 series and Celtics struggled offensively as well.

Rank Player PPG
1. Michael Jordan* 30.12
2. Wilt Chamberlain* 30.07
[B]3. Luka Dončić 28.72[/B]
4. Joel Embiid 27.60
5. Elgin Baylor* 27.36
6. Kevin Durant 27.20
7. Jerry West* 27.03
8. LeBron James 27.01
9. Allen Iverson* 26.66
10. Bob Pettit* 26.36
11. Oscar Robertson* 25.68
12. Trae Young 25.22
13. Damian Lillard 25.11
14. George Gervin* 25.09
15. Karl Malone* 25.02
16. Kobe Bryant* 24.99
17. Dominique Wilkins* 24.83
18. Donovan Mitchell 24.83
19. Stephen Curry 24.79
20. Rick Barry* 24.78
[B]21. Shai Gilgeous-Alexander 24.67[/B]

Luka is on pace for 40K points and he's top five in PPG. SGA is having a moment but it's like saying Hakeem > Jordan because Hakeem made the finals first

[QUOTE=ImKobe;15042875]It worked for the Mavs. They won 2 of the 3 series and Celtics struggled offensively as well.[/QUOTE]

Be truthful. Tatum was shooting badly but he wasn't guarded by Doncic. The Celtics hunted him as much as possible and murdering Doncic when he was on defense also wore him out for when he was on offense. Brown killed him head-to-head. The series was not competitive and Doncic being below his norm on offense and the weak link on defense was a major reason why. Any team you put Doncic on an opponent that can spread the floor with multiple Go9d offensive players like the Celtics had will take advantage. Maybe he will handle that better now that he's in decent shape but in that Finals it was huge, probably the biggest difference for the Mavericks from the success they had enjoyed in previous rounds (either him or what Holiday did to Kyrie).

[QUOTE=John8204;15042876]Rank Player PPG
1. Michael Jordan* 30.12
2. Wilt Chamberlain* 30.07
[B]3. Luka Dončić 28.72[/B]
4. Joel Embiid 27.60
5. Elgin Baylor* 27.36
6. Kevin Durant 27.20
7. Jerry West* 27.03
8. LeBron James 27.01
9. Allen Iverson* 26.66
10. Bob Pettit* 26.36
11. Oscar Robertson* 25.68
12. Trae Young 25.22
13. Damian Lillard 25.11
14. George Gervin* 25.09
15. Karl Malone* 25.02
16. Kobe Bryant* 24.99
17. Dominique Wilkins* 24.83
18. Donovan Mitchell 24.83
19. Stephen Curry 24.79
20. Rick Barry* 24.78
[B]21. Shai Gilgeous-Alexander 24.67[/B]

Luka is on pace for 40K points and he's top five in PPG. SGA is having a moment but it's like saying Hakeem > Jordan because Hakeem made the finals first[/QUOTE]

You think lukas body will hold up for 40000? More to the game than scoring. Mvps, championships, d...

Shai won the MVP last year and was the runner up the year before. I think Luka has something to prove to get to that level.

As good as Luka has been on offense in the playoffs his defense has gotten exposed pretty badly at times.

Nobody has prevented SGA from scoring 20+ points in 85 consecutive games and counting.

[QUOTE=k0kakw0rld;15042883]Nobody has prevented SGA from scoring 20+ points in 85 consecutive games and counting.[/QUOTE]

20 points doesnt mean as much as it once did. Nba at an all time high ortg

Comfortably better.

Its Jokic, SGA and Giannis up the top.

Luka is in the next bracket down.

[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You;15042880]You think lukas body will hold up for 40000? More to the game than scoring. Mvps, championships, d...[/QUOTE]

The thing that kills shooters are ACL and back injuries...he always gets the ticky tack injuries. Luka's issue was getting the AI/Carmello treatment but that doesn't happen with the Lakers. Also I count conference championships as championships.

[QUOTE=John8204;15042887]The thing that kills shooters are ACL and back injuries...he always gets the ticky tack injuries. Luka's issue was getting the AI/Carmello treatment but that doesn't happen with the Lakers. Also I count conference championships as championships.[/QUOTE]

Lakers dont count conference championships

[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You;15042888]Lakers dont count conference championships[/QUOTE]

They actually do thirty years of free agency signings how many guys did they chase that made the finals (Shaq, Payton, Malone, Howard, Leborn, Luka

Hard to say really. I think if you switch SGA with Luka, OKC would still win.

SGA is actually pretty ball dominant and low assist, but Luka is probably the slowest, most ball dominant player of all time. He is highly skilled so it works, but it's not ideal for a player to be so ball dominant while also generally unathletic and not a good defender.

I think Luka is a slightly better "talent" than SGA but I'd rather have SGA for more 2-way versatility.