Does a Paolo-Lauri trade make sense?

Orlando's Franz on/Paolo off sample size continues to grow. At what point do we admit that the pairing doesn't work, and that Franz is the more impactful and therefore valuable player on the Magic?

Perhaps it would make sense to trade Banchero for Markannen.

Orlando gets an offensive off-ball superstar forward who fits much better and would significantly elevate Orlando's offense. He'd be "additive" in a way Paolo isn't. They'd have as good a chance as any team to come out of the East, IMO. Utah would get a young cornerstone superstar they can perhaps try to remodel & optimize while looking to tank and rebuild. They could even allow him to statpad hard, then trade him for a haul down the line.

Depends on what other assets orlando gives up. Lauri playing at a superstar level

I couldnt find a trade that would work on trademachine. Maybe a multi team deal does. Magic tax team. Jazz below cap.

Lauri hasn't won anything while Banchero led his team to the playoffs twice while still sporting a rookie contract, but most importantly is [B]FIVE - 5 (!!!)[/B] years younger.

We've seen what Paulo was able to do in the playoffs, and he's proven the ability to exceed his regular season numbers. That's a rare thing.

Who knows what Lauri does in the playoffs. For all we know he's a choke monster. I'm not saying there's not reason to be concerned with the fit, but I would absolutely not make a trade yet for a 5-year older tank commander.

And I certainly wouldn't be adding assets like one insane poster suggested.

[QUOTE=beasted;15043969]Lauri hasn't won anything while Banchero led his team to the playoffs twice while still sporting a rookie contract, but most importantly is [B]FIVE - 5 (!!!)[/B] years younger.

We've seen what Paulo was able to do in the playoffs, and he's proven the ability to exceed his regular season numbers. That's a rare thing.

Who knows what Lauri does in the playoffs. For all we know he's a choke monster. I'm not saying there's not reason to be concerned with the fit, but I would absolutely not make a trade yet for a 5-year older tank commander.

And I certainly wouldn't be adding assets like one insane poster suggested.[/QUOTE]

NBA players just don't average 30 points on 60% true shooting unless they're the type of stars who appear on MVP ballots. Last year, only Giannis Antetokounmpo and Shai Gilgeous-Alexander finished above those levels. The year before, those two were joined by Luka Doncic and Joel Embiid. The only others to have completed a season like that in the past 10 years are LeBron James, Jayson Tatum, Damian Lillard, Steph Curry and James Harden. Superduperstars, all of them.

Will paulo ever reach that level? Unlikely but possible which is the only reason for the jazz to do it. Hes younger. I know you dont agree but orlando would be a lottery team in the west. The jazz despite lauri being the only nba starter in their lineup have been decent this year as they were his first year before trading conley and going all in on the tank.

[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You;15043970]NBA players just don't average 30 points on 60% true shooting unless they're the type of stars who appear on MVP ballots. Last year, only Giannis Antetokounmpo and Shai Gilgeous-Alexander finished above those levels. The year before, those two were joined by Luka Doncic and Joel Embiid. The only others to have completed a season like that in the past 10 years are LeBron James, Jayson Tatum, Damian Lillard, Steph Curry and James Harden. Superduperstars, all of them.

Will paulo ever reach that level? Unlikely but possible which is the only reason for the jazz to do it. Hes younger. I know you dont agree but orlando would be a lottery team in the west. The jazz despite lauri being the only nba starter in their lineup have been decent this year as they were his first year before trading conley and going all in on the tank.[/QUOTE]

What are you talking about? Utah has consistently sported a losing record against both the east and the west. At least in 23-24 while leading them to the playoffs, Paolo and the Magic went 15-15 good for a .500 record against west teams.

You seem to just talk out of your ass. Of all the guys who averaged the statline you're talking about, zero of them went to the lottery.

[QUOTE=beasted;15043972]What are you talking about? Utah has consistently sported a losing record against both the east and the west. At least in 23-24 while leading them to the playoffs, Paolo and the Magic went 15-15 good for a .500 record against west teams.

You seem to just talk out of your ass. Of all the guys who averaged the statline you're talking about, zero of them went to the lottery.[/QUOTE]

None of those guys were on tanking teams. Jazz currently tied for 10th so not yet lottery team.

Orlando certainly has some interesting young talent that would probably make more sense for the jazz if they want to make a move. With kessler out carter makes sense

[QUOTE=beasted;15043969]Lauri hasn't won anything [B]while Banchero led his team to the playoffs twice[/B] while still sporting a rookie contract, but most importantly is FIVE - 5 (!!!)[/B] years younger.

We've seen what Paulo was able to do in the playoffs, and he's proven the ability to exceed his regular season numbers. That's a rare thing.

Who knows what Lauri does in the playoffs. For all we know he's a choke monster. I'm not saying there's not reason to be concerned with the fit, but I would absolutely not make a trade yet for a 5-year older tank commander.

And I certainly wouldn't be adding assets like one insane poster suggested.[/QUOTE]


Except he didnt "lead" them, and the data is clear on that.

This is like when people claimed Melo just came in and "turned the Nuggets around" in his rookie year.

Like they didnt sign Andre Miller that offseason who played 82 games. And Veshon Leonard didnt return that season and have a career year. Like Earl Boykins didnt come in that year and ball. Like Marcus Camby didnt play 77 games in 03-04 vs the 29 he played in 02-03. Or Birdman didnt play a dozen extra games that year. Fransisco Elson didnt get added for quality depth.

It was a completely different team, but because it was Carmelo's rookie year everyone claims [I]he was the force behind the turnaround[/I]. His 21 points on 42.6% shooting and 2 assists per game. And of course those celebrated intangibles and maturity and defense that marked his early career.

[I]Carmelo was the reason![/I] Just LOL.

The narrative is not always the reality. Paolo did not "lead" the Magic to the playoffs just because he's the name you recognize. They got there as a team, and the actual evidence shows his impact was pretty marginal.

Wouldn’t happen …
…even if Ainge got in a terrible brain-damaging car accident today.

Paulo is very big and skilled, but enough sample size shows Wagner running shit is simply way way better for the Magic. Why would Utah want that, for a fan favorite superstar, currently averaging 30 on great efficiency ?

[QUOTE=BarberSchool;15043993]Wouldn’t happen …
…even if Ainge got in a terrible brain-damaging car accident today.

Paulo is very big and skilled, but enough sample size shows Wagner running shit is simply way way better for the Magic. Why would Utah want that, for a fan favorite superstar, currently averaging 30 on great efficiency ?[/QUOTE]


Because hes much older than the young guys theyve tanked for. Paulo and the other assets fit their timeline better. Dont think we really know what austin ainge would do since he has only been the guy briefly.

Lauri yet to show he can carry a team and they have the young stud to build around in ace. That would be the biggest question. Does paulo fit with ace?

[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You;15043975]None of those guys were on tanking teams. Jazz currently tied for 10th so not yet lottery team.

Orlando certainly has some interesting young talent that would probably make more sense for the jazz if they want to make a move. With kessler out carter makes sense[/QUOTE]

If a player has nice stats on a terrible team, and doesn't seem to move the needle in wins, does that tell you they are equal to other superstars or lesser than them?

You seem to be talking out of both sides of your mouth. On one hand he's this great player that puts up stats only a superstar can, but in the other side, the Jazz have not even been close to being good.

This tells me his stats are totally irrelevant, aka empty. I saw him on better teams and Lauri was relegated to a role player. I tend to believe if you trade him to any other decent team that doesn't already have an MVP caliber player, he doesn't immediately become the alpha on that team, instead he becomes just another good player.

For example, I could not envision Lauri being traded to Phoenix and forcing Booker into a sidekick role. No, instead he becomes Booker's sidekick. Same for Minnesota and Edwards. He doesn't go to Maxey and tell him in nicer terms "you're going to need to be more of a PG to pass me the ball, not score because I'm going to be the one doing the scoring". No, Lauri 8 out of 10 times is going someone else to be a sidekick or a score by committee player.

And, it's not a cultural thing. He's simply not proven himself to be that good yet.

[QUOTE=FultzNationRISE;15043981]Except he didnt "lead" them, and the data is clear on that.

This is like when people claimed Melo just came in and "turned the Nuggets around" in his rookie year.

Like they didnt sign Andre Miller that offseason who played 82 games. And Veshon Leonard didnt return that season and have a career year. Like Earl Boykins didnt come in that year and ball. Like Marcus Camby didnt play 77 games in 03-04 vs the 29 he played in 02-03. Or Birdman didnt play a dozen extra games that year. Fransisco Elson didnt get added for quality depth.

It was a completely different team, but because it was Carmelo's rookie year everyone claims [I]he was the force behind the turnaround[/I]. His 21 points on 42.6% shooting and 2 assists per game. And of course those celebrated intangibles and maturity and defense that marked his early career.

[I]Carmelo was the reason![/I] Just LOL.

The narrative is not always the reality. Paolo did not "lead" the Magic to the playoffs just because he's the name you recognize. They got there as a team, and the actual evidence shows his impact was pretty marginal.[/QUOTE]

You're pointing out obvious things that don't need to be said. Basketball is a team sport. A team doesn't have a 13 game swing based on the improvement of one player, unless that player is am MVP caliber addition.

"Led" was a figure of speech. He did not put the team on his back. But, rather Banchero was one of the leaders, the highest usage player, and clearly a player they entrusted to have an even larger role come playoff time in which he delivered.

Paulos 2 playoffs would have been playin 8th and 9th in west without considering that they play an easier schedule in the east. Guy putting up elite stats on tanking team ot a guy making playoffs in weak conference?

[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You;15044064]Paulos 2 playoffs would have been playin 8th and 9th in west without considering that they play an easier schedule in the east. Guy putting up elite stats on tanking team ot a guy making playoffs in weak conference?[/QUOTE]

Nobody cares what is averaged on the dead last worst team in the conference, which is where Lauri led them as recently as last year.

2nd here is the East vs West head to head record for the last 5 seasons:

EAST W L W/L% West W L W/L%
2025-26 119 122 .494 123 120 .506
2024-25 592 638 .481 638 592 .519
2023-24 580 650 .472 650 580 .528
2022-23 626 604 .509 604 626 .491
2021-22 616 614 .501 614 616 .499
2020-21 523 557 .484 557 523 .516
2019-20 507 540 .484 515 519 .515

[url]https://www.basketball-reference.com/friv/east_vs_west.html[/url]

The West has typically been 1-2% or less better than the East, except for 2 seasons the East had been better. But, the way you'd tell your lies about the West being better you'd suggest a garbage pile like Utah would be a contender.

This story of West vs East is not actually about any playoff teams as you insinuate, but, it's instead about how mitch better the top teams are at beating the bottom dwellers. So, no, your garbage able-to-make-the-play-in-if-it-started-today Jazz with a sub .500 record could not do any better out East.

[QUOTE=beasted;15044068]Nobody cares what is averaged on the dead last worst team in the conference, which is where Lauri led them as recently as last year.

2nd here is the East vs West head to head record for the last 5 seasons:

EAST W L W/L% West W L W/L%
2025-26 119 122 .494 123 120 .506
2024-25 592 638 .481 638 592 .519
2023-24 580 650 .472 650 580 .528
2022-23 626 604 .509 604 626 .491
2021-22 616 614 .501 614 616 .499
2020-21 523 557 .484 557 523 .516
2019-20 507 540 .484 515 519 .515

[url]https://www.basketball-reference.com/friv/east_vs_west.html[/url]

The West has typically been 1-2% or less better than the East, except for 2 seasons the East had been better. But, the way you'd tell your lies about the West being better you'd suggest a garbage pile like Utah would be a contender.

This story of West vs East is not actually about any playoff teams as you insinuate, but, it's instead about how mitch better the top teams are at beating the bottom dwellers. So, no, your garbage able-to-make-the-play-in-if-it-started-today Jazz with a sub .500 record could not do any better out East.[/QUOTE]

Ja,z would have a harder tine losing in east which is their goal. Probably wouldnt have had worst record. More teams tanking in east

[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You;15044071]Ja,z would have a harder tine losing in east which is their goal. Probably wouldnt have had worst record. More teams tanking in east[/QUOTE]
Tanking Jazz and terrible Griizlies still in the playoff hunt currently out West. :confusedshrug:

[QUOTE=beasted;15044096]Tanking Jazz and terrible Griizlies still in the playoff hunt currently out West. :confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]

Its early.

Looks like thompson is who they want. See if pistons think lauri is the piece to put them over the top

[url]https://thejnotes.com/jazz-have-ideal-trade-target-lauri-markkanen-trade-rumors-true[/url]