Lebron vs Jokic - Age 22-29

[B]Regular Season[/B]

Lebron: 604 games, 29.3 PER, 59.8 TS%, .[B]273 WS/48[/B], 10.4 BPM, [B]73.1 VORP, 4 MVPs, 2 rings, 2 FMVPs.[/B]

Jokic: 592 games, 29.3 PER, [B]64.1 TS%[/B], .270 WS/48, [B]11.1 BPM[/B], 65.9 VORP, 3 MVPs, 1 ring, 1 FMVPs.

[B]Playoffs[/B]

Lebron: 145 games, 28.1 PER, 58 TS%, [B].252 WS/48[/B], 10.3 BPM

Jokic: 94 games, [B]28.5 PER, 61.2 TS%[/B], .231 WS/48, [B]10.8 BPM[/B]

Fascinating how similar their numbers are. I've made it known that Jokic was already a top 10 player to ever play the game by the end of 2024 (based on impact/skill-set, not resume). Jokic has never even had an all-star teammate before, so him have one less ring/FMVP isn't less impressive to me given how talented the Heat were 11-14.

It's wild how people still claim Jokic isn't close to top 10 all time. His impact stats match MJ/Lebron. To me, he's a taller, bigger, better Larry Bird. If he's better than Larry, then he's clearly top 10.

[QUOTE=StrongLurk;15043982] To me, he's a taller, bigger, better Larry Bird. If he's better than Larry, then he's clearly top 10.[/QUOTE]I have long said Jokic is Larry Bird’s brain, in Marc Gasol’s body. Quite a combo.

Jokic doesn't have a record number of choke jobs though. The stats you posted don't tell the entire story. When Jokic's career is over, he'll unquestionably be ranked higher than Lebron.

when it's all said and done, lebron, jokic and luka will be the top 3 players of all time

[QUOTE=Full Court;15044082]Jokic doesn't have a record number of choke jobs though. The stats you posted don't tell the entire story. When Jokic's career is over, he'll unquestionably be ranked higher than Lebron.[/QUOTE]

And you still think Pistol Pete was a better passer than Jokic. :lol

[QUOTE=Full Court;15044082]Jokic doesn't have a record number of choke jobs though. The stats you posted don't tell the entire story. When Jokic's career is over, he'll unquestionably be ranked higher than Lebron.[/QUOTE]

This is the big one. His team did blow a 20-point lead in a Game 7 at home but he was like the only one who showed up in that 2nd half.

Curry best player of the 2010s, Jokic 2020s so far. Lebron doesn't have a decade to himself like Jordan or Kobe, he had the early 2010s but the 2011 choke job will never be forgotten and he had the stats in the late 2010s but Steph owned him.

[QUOTE=ImKobe;15044298]This is the big one. His team did blow a 20-point lead in a Game 7 at home but he was like the only one who showed up in that 2nd half.

Curry best player of the 2010s, Jokic 2020s so far. Lebron doesn't have a decade to himself like Jordan or Kobe, he had the early 2010s but the 2011 choke job will never be forgotten and he had the stats in the late 2010s but Steph owned him.[/QUOTE]

2010s is VERY debatable. He had the first half for sure.

But he's like Duncan were his peak really didn't align perfectly with a decade like say Kobe's did. Or Bird and Magic. Not really a knock.

Like even in this thread it's discussing 2007-2014.

[QUOTE=ImKobe;15044298]This is the big one. His team did blow a 20-point lead in a Game 7 at home but he was like the only one who showed up in that 2nd half.

Curry best player of the 2010s, Jokic 2020s so far. Lebron doesn't have a decade to himself like Jordan or Kobe, he had the early 2010s but the 2011 choke job will never be forgotten and he had the stats in the late 2010s but Steph owned him.[/QUOTE]

How do you own someone and get outplayed by them 4/4 times?

[QUOTE=ShawkFactory;15044323][B]2010s is VERY debatable. He had the first half for sure.[/B]

But he's like Duncan were his peak really didn't align perfectly with a decade like say Kobe's did. Or Bird and Magic. Not really a knock.

Like even in this thread it's discussing 2007-2014.[/QUOTE]

Bron was by far the best player in the world for 8 out of 10 years in the 2010s :lol

Its probably the most unquestionable decade in history. With 90s MJ.

Hilarious take.

[QUOTE=ArbitraryWater;15044324]How do you own someone and get outplayed by them 4/4 times?[/QUOTE]

2016 is the only clear-cut case for Lebron in their H2H, im not sure you can outplay someone in a one-sided series where your team gets stomped and you're stat-padding when the game's already over. In a way Lebron and Steph are the polar opposites when it comes to how they approach the game and Steph's way is just superior. He crushed the Cavs in the last 3 games of that 2015 series in the 4th. 2017 is very close statistically overall or if you go through all these games individually and Lebron was padding numbers at the end of the series en route to a 1 - 4 loss.

[QUOTE=ArbitraryWater;15044326]Bron was by far the best player in the world for 8 out of 10 years in the 2010s :lol

Its probably the most unquestionable decade in history. With 90s MJ.

Hilarious take.[/QUOTE]

Imagine saying hilarious take and then posting bullshit like "best player in the world 8 out of 10 years BY FAR" and comparing it to Jordan's dominance as well. 2011 he wasn't the best. mid 2010s there's arguments for KD and Steph every year and 2019 is Kawhi's. Realistically he was the best in 2012/13 and every other year is debatable or in favor of someone else, that is nowhere near what Jordan did. He didn't win the most rings in that decade nor the RS MVPs.

[QUOTE=ShawkFactory;15044323][B]2010s is VERY debatable[/B]. He had the first half for sure.

But he's like Duncan were his peak really didn't align perfectly with a decade like say Kobe's did. Or Bird and Magic. Not really a knock.

Like even in this thread it's discussing 2007-2014.[/QUOTE]
ImKobe's one thing, this is a surprisingly bad take from you. You'd have to genuinely rely solely on titles where Curry had a substantial talent advantage over LeBron in their h2h's, including comical disparities in 2015 & 2018.

Nobody believes Curry is winning in LeBron's place if they swapped places in those series.

[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents;15044333]ImKobe's one thing, this is a surprisingly bad take from you. You'd have to genuinely rely solely on titles where Curry had a substantial talent advantage over LeBron in their h2h's, including comical disparities in 2015 & 2018.

Nobody believes Curry is winning in LeBron's place if they swapped places in those series.[/QUOTE]

This is a flawed argument because the Cavs were built around Lebron's skillset and the Warriors were built around what Steph does so the team construction would be different if Steph were in Cleveland to begin with.

The 2018 Cavs would've been better than what they were if Lebron didn't drive Kyrie away by trying to trade him behind his back. Durant had the chance to join Lebron after 2019 to form a superteam in LA but chose Kyrie's crazy ass instead.

Both better than Kobe, that's for sure.

[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents;15044333]ImKobe's one thing, this is a surprisingly bad take from you. You'd have to genuinely rely solely on titles where Curry had a substantial talent advantage over LeBron in their h2h's, including comical disparities in 2015 & 2018.

Nobody believes Curry is winning in LeBron's place if they swapped places in those series.[/QUOTE]

I was just meeting him halfway.

[QUOTE=ImKobe;15044332]2016 is the only clear-cut case for Lebron in their H2H, im not sure you can outplay someone in a one-sided series where your team gets stomped and you're stat-padding when the game's already over. In a way Lebron and Steph are the polar opposites when it comes to how they approach the game and Steph's way is just superior. He crushed the Cavs in the last 3 games of that 2015 series in the 4th. 2017 is very close statistically overall or if you go through all these games individually and Lebron was padding numbers at the end of the series en route to a 1 - 4 loss.



Imagine saying hilarious take and then posting bullshit like "best player in the world 8 out of 10 years BY FAR" and comparing it to Jordan's dominance as well. 2011 he wasn't the best. mid 2010s there's arguments for KD and Steph every year and 2019 is Kawhi's. [B]Realistically he was the best in 2012/13 and every other year is debatable or in favor of someone else,[/B] that is nowhere near what Jordan did. He didn't win the most rings in that decade nor the RS MVPs.[/QUOTE]

The same can be said for Kobe in 2000s. Maybe only 2-3 years where he was the fairly consensus best in the league. Still, his body of work in that decade overall is probably tops.

Gonna do the same numbers as the OP for Curry and Lebron in the 2010s, but add raw numbers as well.

[B]Regular Season[/B]

Lebron: 726 Games, [B]26.9ppg/7.7rpg/7.6ast, 28.6 PER[/B], .609 TS%, [B].251 ws/48, 9.2 BPM, 76.5 VORP, 3 MVPs[/B], 3 rings, [B]3 FMVPs[/B], [B]10x All-NBA (9 firsts, 1 second), 5x All-NBA Defense (4 firsts, 1 second)[/B]

Steph: 694 Games, 23.5ppg/3.8rpg/6.6ast, 23.8 PER, [B].624 TS%[/B], .207 ws/48, 6.4 BPM, 50.5 VORP, 2 MVPs, 3 rings, 0 FMVPS, 6x All-NBA (4 firsts, 2 seconds, 1 third), 0 Defensive


[B]Playoffs[/B]

Lebron: 179 games, [B]28.8ppg/9.1rpg/7.0ast, 28.8 PER[/B], .588 TS%, [B].250 ws/48, 10.1 BPM, 22.6 VORP[/B]

Steph: 112 games, 26.5ppg/5.4rpg/6.3ast, 23.0 PER, [B].609 TS%[/B], .194 ws/48, 6.9 BPM, 9.5 VORP


Yes, I realize this is just paper resumes but it's kind of insulting to Lebron and weird to act like yea Steph just owned that decade. It's wild actually.