Do you know the reason Babe Ruth only won one MVP?

No, not because he may have been part black or Dominican. It’s because in his day once you won an MVP you were ineligible in the future. You get one and you’re done.

So the obvious question I ask is what would nba history look like if such a rule existed the entire time?

I have a few minutes to kill so I’m gonna do this off the top just from 1980 until now because I’m confident there aren’t three people here who would give a shit who would win the 1965 MVP with Russell Cousy Wilt and Oscar off the board(Baylor would already have one…it would get ugly…maybe West if we’re lucky).

feel free to clean up anything you disagree with or that I get factually wrong. I’m also not proofreading this for errors related to speech to text so you get what you get. I’m bored. You get a stream of consciousness that might give you a few minutes of distraction as well.

In 1980 Kareem is an eligible because he would already have one and I believe Moses Malone would be as well and being birds rookie season with a big turnaround. I suspect he wins the MVP. So… Bird gets 1980 Doctor J got his first one in 1981 so I’ll give him that and just disregard that he would probably already have one with Moses and Kareem out-of-the-way previously. Moses can’t get it in 82 and neither can bird or Doctor J so I’m not sure what direction to go. Magic had a near triple double season I believe so maybe I’ll give it to him until one of you gives me a reason not to. Someone like Marcus Johnson or Sydney Moncrief might sneak in here somehow.


83 might well go to Moncrief if they had the year I think they did. 84 and 85 are Bernard King and Isiah in whatever years you give each which gets us to 86 where we have none of the big all time elite names associated with the 80s left.

I think 1986 might go to Dominique Wilkins, Hakeem or Barkley. I’m gonna give it to Nique since I think he did finish second to bird in real life.

87 you get Jordan, his first and last which is clearly going to **** up the 90s.

From here on, you have to decide between Barkley, Hakeem, Drexler, and David Robinson for the next four I guess. Now that I think about it, I think Karl Malone was second in real life one of those years. 88 89, 90 91 and 92 are definitely those five in some combination unless Ewing sneaks in there that year he went crazy.

I’ll let one of you put that stretch in order But one thing for sure…we are ****ed by the mid 90s.

by 1993 you might be down to Ewing if he doesn’t get it in 90. But I think him Hakeem and David would’ve already taken one. Drexler might be the odd man out with Karl getting a shot.

With none of them available in 1994? It’s probably gonna be Scottie Pippen or Shaq right? I know Pippin was third in real life behind two guys who would already be out of contention. So let’s say he gets that. That saves 95 for Shaq so Stockton or Penny don’t have to get it.

96…Kemp, Payton, Penny…Grant Hill? I really don’t know.

Not having Jordan and Malone are gonna screw it up.

Let’s say they give it to Penny for holding the magic together when Shaq was hurt. I think he was top three or four that year in real life so that’s probably the pick. 97 Might go to Alonzo Mourning I guess? No Grant Hill wouldn’t have one yet and they had some good years. Grant might get 97.

Rookie Duncan would be a good option in 98 unless you really love Payton.

99? Zo unless they swap him and Duncan in 98.

Now 2000 was clearly Shaq but without him…would AI get it a year early? He did get the only vote that kept Shaq from being unanimous. But if he gets it that year who wins in 2001?


it might be Webber KG or T Mac, though as good as the Lakers were with Shaq not being an option would the voters bring Kobe up from getting almost no votes to winning?

90s are tough to say because the competition was so schwach. All the good players were on Chicago. Pip would definitely have one. Horace Grant probably gets one. Rodman for sure, and maybe Toni Kukoc.

I really think it would come down to Chris Webber Kobe and Garnett and the voters might just want to give it to a Laker. Kobe really might go from like 10th in real life to winning the 2001 MVP.

That decision obviously ****s with the rest, but I’m just gonna assume he takes the votes from Shaquille and beats Webber by a hair.

2002 would be down to Webber, Tmac, Kidd, and KG and Webber might get it of people thinking he was snubbed the year before… Except of course, Kidd, turning around the nets.

in real life, he barely lost to Duncan I believe so I guess he takes 2002 which leaves 2003 to be an argument between Garnett, Dirk, and McGrady instead of Garnett and Duncan and I assume KG would take it.

So…


2004 you can’t give it to KG…or Shaq or Kobe..Tmac won 20 games…no Duncan or Kidd…Mavs had an off year.

Do we actually see Jermaine O’Neal or Peia win the MVP?

If so, that might have been the breaking point to finally make them change the rule, but assuming not… It’s still not an issue going forward because they will never be in the argument again anyway….

Nash wins in 2005 Dirk probably gets it a year early in 2006…

by the real life voting, I think LeBron would be the highest eligible person left, but they might give it to McGrady just feeling he may have been snubbed earlier.

Either he’s off the board in 2007 or he’s gone in 2009 anyway if they give it to McGrady in 2007 and Chris Paul in 2008.

Lebron gets 09.

from there it gets hard. I might give it to Wade in 2010 but I think Kevin Durant was the highest real life Vote-getter available. Wade might still be available in 2011 without LeBron to take his votes, but it would still come down to Rose and Dwight I believe.

2012 is a total cluster****. Dwight might get it by default to avoid Tony Parker.

Carmelo might get one. I think Blake Griffin would have one by real life votes, but I don’t think he would get one if people had to follow these rules. That one year Noah was up there Blake was just ahead of him and I don’t think they would give it to either Blake or Noah so hard and might get off the board that early.


The early 2010s are kind of convoluted.

I’ll finish it later or leave it to one of you. My lunch has arrived.

I'm glad the NBA never implemented this. I shudder to think of Carmelo Anthony being an MVP.

Just checked and if it just went by the real life vote? Terry Cummings would’ve won in 1983. I’m not entirely sure Julius Randle wouldn’t have won on the Knicks. It depends on if Dame or Luka win before that

I think I could live with Carmelo more than Randle. Some of those years get ugly. Paul George might have one

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855;15044210]


2004 you can’t give it to KG…or Shaq or Kobe..Tmac won 20 games…no Duncan or Kidd…Mavs had an off year.

Do we actually see Jermaine O’Neal or Peia win the MVP?

If so, that might have been the breaking point to finally make them change the rule, but assuming not… It’s still not an issue going forward because they will never be in the argument again anyway….

[/QUOTE]

Why wouldn't you give it to KG?

98/99 - Duncan
99/00 - Shaq
00/01 - Iverson
01/02 - Webber
02/03 - Kidd
03/04 - Garnett
04/05 - Nash
05/06 - Kobe
06/07 - Dirk
07/08 - CPIII
08/09 - Lebron
09/10 - Howard
10/11 - Rose
11/12 - Durant
12/13 - Carmello
13/14 - Griffin
14/15 - Curry
15/16 - Leonard
16/17 - Westbrook
17/18 - Harden
18/19 - Giannis
19/20 - Butler
20/21 - Jokic
21/22 - Embiid
22/23 - Luka
22/23 - Tatum
23/24 - SGA

I mean is it that bad to see Griffin and Carmello get MVP's if you also reward turn around guys like Butler, Kidd, CPIII, and Webber?

These kind of awards are a virus for team sports, its fans, and society in general.

They literally are only there for the newspapers / media. That’s why journos vote. It’s about selling news, papers, and clicks. Nothing more.

Same shit with politics and its media.

The only individual achievements that should be celebrated in a team sport are stat leaders.

Who gives a fizuck about awards in a team sport?

If you want solo glorification go play golf.

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855;15044208]No, not because he may have been part black or Dominican. It’s because in his day once you won an MVP you were ineligible in the future. You get one and you’re done.

So the obvious question I ask is what would MBA history look like you’re such a rule existed the entire time?

I have a few minutes to kill so I’m gonna do this off the top just from 1980 until now because I’m confident there aren’t three people here who would give a shit who would win the 1965 MVP with Russell Cousy Wilt and Oscar off the board(Baylor would already have one…it would get ugly…maybe West if we’re lucky).

[/QUOTE]

You'd have some issues with the 1960's but the 1970's would be awesome

69/70 - Jerry West
70/71 - KAJ
71/72 - Havlicek
72/73 - Archbald
73/74 - Frazier
74/75 - Barry
75/76 - MCadoo
76/77 - Maravich
77/78 - Walton
78/79 - Moses Malone
79/80 - Gervin

Awards like these are literally for web masters like the dude who runs this shit.

It’s like free money watching fans debate over arbitrary shit to these people. lol.

Journos, web guys, Silver, advertisers all be laughing their asses off at you tools who argue this crap.

[QUOTE=John8204;15044227]Why wouldn't you give it to KG?

98/99 - Duncan
99/00 - Shaq
00/01 - Iverson
01/02 - Webber
02/03 - Kidd
03/04 - Garnett
04/05 - Nash
05/06 - Kobe
06/07 - Dirk
07/08 - CPIII
08/09 - Lebron
09/10 - Howard
10/11 - Rose
11/12 - Durant
12/13 - Carmello
13/14 - Griffin
14/15 - Curry
15/16 - Leonard
16/17 - Westbrook
17/18 - Harden
18/19 - Giannis
19/20 - Butler
20/21 - Jokic
21/22 - Embiid
22/23 - Luka
22/23 - Tatum
23/24 - SGA

I mean is it that bad to see Griffin and Carmello get MVP's if you also reward turn around guys like Butler, Kidd, CPIII, and Webber?[/QUOTE]


how do you get out of giving either Shaq or Pippin the MVP in 94 and 95 with without the option of Jordan Hakeem David Robinson, Barkley, Ewing, and all the other serious contenders?

I don’t think Shaq makes it to 2000 And without him or Duncan And kidd only being able to get one of them I don’t see how Garnett doesn’t win it before 2004. He barely lost in 2003 with Duncan in the vote.

[QUOTE=Norcaliblunt;15044232]These kind of awards are a virus for team sports, its fans, and society in general.

They literally are only there for the newspapers / media. That’s why journos vote. It’s about selling news, papers, and clicks. Nothing more.

Same shit with politics and its media.

The only individual achievements that should be celebrated in a team sport are stat leaders.

Who gives a fizuck about awards in a team sport?

If you want solo glorification go play golf.[/QUOTE]

The media didn’t vote on the first 25 or so of them. And leagues have MVPs that don’t even have media coverage. If you have a league, you’re pretty much going to name an MVP. It predates clicks and goes on even when papers won’t be sold. Little church leagues have MVPs.

So having an mvp seems to be a curse then for many players, it seems.

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855;15044214]ugly[/quote]
[Url=https://i.ibb.co/hX34jLs/IMG-20221001-103220.jpg][img]https://c.tenor.com/-ZM3THuX-IAAAAAC/tenor.gif[/img][/url]

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855;15044264]The media didn’t vote on the first 25 or so of them. And leagues have MVPs that don’t even have media coverage. If you have a league, you’re pretty much going to name an MVP. It predates clicks and goes on even when papers won’t be sold. Little church leagues have MVPs.[/QUOTE]
He really didn’t think that post through :lol He was too anxious to demonstrate his superior intellect and lecture us sheep being played by the media.

Ruth won the American League Award in 1923. It existed for less than a decade, through 1928. The MVP started in 1931 and he never won it.

Roger’s Hornby won the national League Award in 25 and 29. Jimmie Foxx won MVPs in 32 and 33, in the American League, and before Ruth retired. So your story that you were not allowed to win it more than once is a little suspect.

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855;15044261]how do you get out of giving either Shaq or Pippin the MVP in 94 and 95 with without the option of Jordan Hakeem David Robinson, Barkley, Ewing, and all the other serious contenders?

I don’t think Shaq makes it to 2000 And without him or Duncan And kidd only being able to get one of them I don’t see how Garnett doesn’t win it before 2004. He barely lost in 2003 with Duncan in the vote.[/QUOTE]

80/81 - Julius Erving
81/82 - Larry Bird
82/83 - Alex English
83/82 - Adrian Dantley
84/85 - Magic Johnson
85/86 - Dominique Wilkins
86/87 - Hakeem Olajuwon
87/88 - Michael Jordan
88/89 - Isiah Thomas
89/90 - Magic Johnson
90/91 - John Stockton
91/92 - Clyde Drexler
92/93 - Charles Barkley
93/94 - Patrick Ewing
94/95 - David Robinson
95/96 - Grant Hill
96/97 - Karl Malone
97/98 - Reggie Miller

And that still gives you alternates like Payton, Run TMC guys, Penny, Pippen, Rodman, Bernard King, Alonzo Mourning, Vince Carter, and Tracy McGrady.

I can see making Shaq wait behind David Robinson and Patrick Ewing for his "turn" and then when he jumps to LA punishing him and giving Grant Hill and Reggie Miller MVP's.

[QUOTE=Duffy Pratt;15044287]Ruth won the American League Award in 1923. It existed for less than a decade, through 1928. The MVP started in 1931 and he never won it.

Roger’s Hornby won the national League Award in 25 and 29. Jimmie Foxx won MVPs in 32 and 33, in the American League, and before Ruth retired. So your story that you were not allowed to win it more than once is a little suspect.[/QUOTE]


Different award history. Like the original nba mvp having multiple versions and the players at the time accepting them all. There was a sporting news and a basketball writers mvp for a while that usually was the same as the official but not always. The basketball writers mvp back in the day would basically be the one we acknowledge from the 80s on when the media voted.

for example, it was the same as the real one every year of the early 60s except giving Wilt the one the NBA officially gave Oscar Robertson. So Oscar never got one from the media and that five instead of four.

In baseball, there were also a few. The original to the other guys point was literally to help advertise a car dealership. I think it started in the 1915 range and went to Ty Cobb First.

The league acknowledge them due to sponsorship tie in, but when they came up with their own after the car company stopped sponsoring it they acted like the old ones didn’t exist. And that lega official One had the one time when rule.

[QUOTE=John8204;15044295]80/81 - Julius Erving
81/82 - Larry Bird
82/83 - Alex English
83/82 - Adrian Dantley
84/85 - Magic Johnson
85/86 - Dominique Wilkins
86/87 - Hakeem Olajuwon
87/88 - Michael Jordan
88/89 - Isiah Thomas
89/90 - Magic Johnson
90/91 - John Stockton
91/92 - Clyde Drexler
92/93 - Charles Barkley
93/94 - Patrick Ewing
94/95 - David Robinson
95/96 - Grant Hill
96/97 - Karl Malone
97/98 - Reggie Miller

And that still gives you alternates like Payton, Run TMC guys, Penny, Pippen, Rodman, Bernard King, Alonzo Mourning, Vince Carter, and Tracy McGrady.

I can see making Shaq wait behind David Robinson and Patrick Ewing for his "turn" and then when he jumps to LA punishing him and giving Grant Hill and Reggie Miller MVP's.[/QUOTE]


you have magic twice, which should show you one of the issues here. You run out of people to use quicker than you think. A lot of the people you’re listing would have to go before the time you have them listed. Barkley would never make it to 93. In real life, he got more votes than magic for first place three years before that. He just didn’t win because five or six writers had a vendetta against him and manipulated the outcome by leaving him off entirely or putting him fifth.

considering magic bird Jordan, and even guys like Dominique would be out of contention it would be a miracle if Barkley made it past 1990. In all likelihood, he would win before that. So you might be able to slide Ewing and 90 or 91 but you’ve gotta find something to do with David Robinson and Hakeem as well. Stockton isn’t winning one just because he got like a fifth place vote in reality in a world, the others weren’t options. Karl might. But all those people would be gone before 1994 or 95 which is why Pippen and Shaq would end up with it.

averaging 29 and 11 and actually being second in MVP voting in reality on a 57 win team in 1995 how does Shaq not win it in the world that had to free up Six recent ones in recent years due to not allowing doubles?

Even if somehow Ewing didn’t get it in the early 90s, he wouldn’t win it over Shaq in 95.

Robinson would be the only hope but he’s more likely to already have one by 95 than Hakeem is probably. He might well if one of his rookie year when they went from 20 wins to like 55 With no Jordan Barkley or magic in the way.

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855;15044331]you have magic twice, which should show you one of the issues here. You run out of people to use quicker than you think. A lot of the people you’re listing would have to go before the time you have them listed. Barkley would never make it to 93. In real life, he got more votes than magic for first place three years before that. He just didn’t win because five or six writers had a vendetta against him and manipulated the outcome by leaving him off entirely or putting him fifth.

considering magic bird Jordan, and even guys like Dominique would be out of contention it would be a miracle if Barkley made it past 1990. In all likelihood, he would win before that. So you might be able to slide Ewing and 90 or 91 but you’ve gotta find something to do with David Robinson and Hakeem as well. Stockton isn’t winning one just because he got like a fifth place vote in reality in a world, the others weren’t options. Karl might. But all those people would be gone before 1994 or 95 which is why Pippen and Shaq would end up with it.

averaging 29 and 11 and actually being second in MVP voting in reality on a 57 win team in 1995 [B]how does Shaq not win it in the world that had to free up Six recent ones in recent years due to not allowing doubles?[/B]

Even if somehow Ewing didn’t get it in the early 90s, he wouldn’t win it over Shaq in 95.

Robinson would be the only hope but he’s more likely to already have one by 95 than Hakeem is probably. He might well if one of his rookie year when they went from 20 wins to like 55 With no Jordan Barkley or magic in the way.[/QUOTE]

You really surprised at his Shaq omission? :lol

[QUOTE=ShawkFactory;15044363]You really surprised at his Shaq omission? :lol[/QUOTE]

I have Shaq winning in 2000 do try and keep up....

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855;15044331]you have magic twice, which should show you one of the issues here. You run out of people to use quicker than you think. A lot of the people you’re listing would have to go before the time you have them listed. Barkley would never make it to 93. In real life, he got more votes than magic for first place three years before that. He just didn’t win because five or six writers had a vendetta against him and manipulated the outcome by leaving him off entirely or putting him fifth.

considering magic bird Jordan, and even guys like Dominique would be out of contention it would be a miracle if Barkley made it past 1990. In all likelihood, he would win before that. So you might be able to slide Ewing and 90 or 91 but you’ve gotta find something to do with David Robinson and Hakeem as well. Stockton isn’t winning one just because he got like a fifth place vote in reality in a world, the others weren’t options. Karl might. But all those people would be gone before 1994 or 95 which is why Pippen and Shaq would end up with it.

averaging 29 and 11 and actually being second in MVP voting in reality on a 57 win team in 1995 how does Shaq not win it in the world that had to free up Six recent ones in recent years due to not allowing doubles?

Even if somehow Ewing didn’t get it in the early 90s, he wouldn’t win it over Shaq in 95.

Robinson would be the only hope but he’s more likely to already have one by 95 than Hakeem is probably. He might well if one of his rookie year when they went from 20 wins to like 55 With no Jordan Barkley or magic in the way.[/QUOTE]

Magic is an oversight on my part, but looking at those seasons I could see Bernard King getting in in 84/85. He had a 30 PPG season that year and won the scoring title.

Stockton should have won an MVP, hindsight is 20/20 and Stockton was breaking the APG records during those seasons and the Jazz were doing very well. The league kept putting him behind Karl Malone

80 - Erving
81 - Bird
82 - Gervin (Since Moses won it in '79)
83 - Moncrief
84 - King
85 - Magic
86 - Wilkins
87 - MJ
88 - Barkley
89 - K. Malone

90 - Ewing
91 - Robinson
92 - Drexler
93 - Hakeem
94 - Pippen
95 - Shaq
96 - Penny
97 - G. Hill
98 - Payton
99 - Mourning


00 - Duncan
01 - Iverson
02 - Kidd
03 - Garnett
04 - Jermaine O'Neal
05 - Nash
06 - Kobe
07 - Dirk
08 - CP3
09 - LeBron

10 - Howard
11 - Rose
12 - Durant
13 - Carmelo
14 - Griffin
15 - Curry
16 - Kawhi
17 - Westbrook
18 - Harden
19 - Giannis

20 - Luka
21 - Jokic
22 - Embiid
23 - Tatum
24 - SGA
25 - Mitchell

[QUOTE=John8204;15044295]80/81 - Julius Erving
81/82 - Larry Bird
82/83 - Alex English
83/82 - Adrian Dantley
84/85 - Magic Johnson
85/86 - Dominique Wilkins
86/87 - Hakeem Olajuwon
87/88 - Michael Jordan
88/89 - Isiah Thomas
89/90 - Magic Johnson
90/91 - John Stockton[/QUOTE]

Stockton winning MVP over David Robinson? LOL.