Is it actually even possible to trade for Giannis?

I was discussing this recently, and the answer we came up with is "no."

He can probably be [B] signed and traded for[/B], i.e. as an unrestricted free agent, but I cannot fathom the package it would take to just trade for him, absence the leverage of "I'm leaving anyway."

If he's healthy and playing at the level he is playing at, what do you think it would take?

Recently Desmond Bane was worth 4 picks. Comparatively, would that mean Giannis is worth like Jalen Johnson, Zaccharie Risacher, 4 picks and 2 swaps? Except the Hawks don't actually have 6 picks.

OK, how about Jalen Williams, Dort and 6 FRPs from the Thunder? Would OKC even do that?

The complicating factor is that Giannis obviously would want to play for a contender.

What do you think?

Not only is it possible it’s necessary if he’s not giving you signs he wants to come back. What are you supposed to do? Not get the picks and young talent?

The question is if you can trade him for equal value...and that’s always gonna be a short term no. But long term you never know. There are players on the Nuggets now who were draft picks from the Melo trade 13-14 years ago.

I would trade him for Wemby (he's the player that I would say no one can have). I would guess that Jokic also had a higher trade value. SGA is more valuable because he's younger. I would rather have Giannis than Doncic for the immediate future but Doncic is generally (as in not just my opinion) valued higher and even I would rather build around Doncic unless the rest of my team isn't ready to win right now. Giannis is definitely in the argument for best player in the game but he doesn't run away with it and he is 30, not old but there are younger megatalents.

Unless Giannis is traded against his will, there is no trade in the league that makes the least bit of sense.

No team has the assets that he would want to go to post trade except OKC and I doubt OKC guts their roster with how things look for them.

It was like trading Kobe to the Bulls and Luol Deng was part of the package. He was never going to agree to that as it would kill part of the reason for being traded there in the first place.

As RMWG mentioned, there are only 4 other players in the league that are in that discussion and it would make no sense for any of those teams to trade those players for Giannis.

And it has to be a team he wants to go to.

There isn't a deal out there that will get made that he personally signs off on where he [B][I][U]also[/U][/I][/B] then ends up re-signing with that team.

The only thing that makes sense for him is to either stay in Milwaukee for the money and or love of the city, or leave in free agency because he wants to compete.

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855;15044459]Not only is it possible it’s necessary if he’s not giving you signs he wants to come back. What are you supposed to do? Not get the picks and young talent?

The question is if you can trade him for equal value...and that’s always gonna be a short term no. But long term you never know. There are players on the Nuggets now who were draft picks from the Melo trade 13-14 years ago.[/QUOTE]

See... this is the point of disagreement. I do not think the Bucks will "take something rather than nothing" given that with almost $60M in salary, they will have to take back heavy contracts.

Even if he's leaving, they will still try to obtain a megastar haul. If a team has no other means -- aka, no cap space -- like most contenders, you [B] must[/B] work it through a trade. The playoff team with cap space to sign $60M is nonexistent.

He would have to take a rather substantial paycut in free agency to truly get away from Milwaukee.

TLDR he probably ends up in Milwaukee long term because:

1) No matter what any of these players say the Tom Bradys of the world that sign for substantially less in order to try to win are virtually non existent. Virtually every player in every sport ever claims that winning is their #1 priority when in reality it's money. Which is fine but it's annoying that they [B][I][U]always always always always[/U][/I][/B] lie.

2) As you said, there is no where to sign for him at the money he will want, and really no where to trade him where a team is a serious contender post trade except OKC.

Imagine that Dallas deals AD and all future picks they possibly can though. That might work, lol.

Kyrie + Cooper + the rest of the cast with some fine tuning might be enough for Giannis to want to play there. But probably not.

[QUOTE=Yes or No;15044466]Imagine that Dallas deals AD and all future picks they possibly can though. That might work, lol.

Kyrie + Cooper + the rest of the cast with some fine tuning might be enough for Giannis to want to play there. But probably not.[/QUOTE]

Dallas literally has no picks to trade. They owe all 4 picks 2027-2030. That roster is also terrible and needs more than a tweak, needs an overhaul to actually fit Giannis. They literally have no shooters and 2 Centers who will clog the paint.

I just don't think it's realistic to trade a tenured vet for Giannis (Ex: KAT, Davis, etc .) I think it has to be a young star with a ceiling left.

[QUOTE=beasted;15044463]See... this is the point of disagreement. I do not think the Bucks will "take something rather than nothing" given that with almost $60M in salary, they will have to take back heavy contracts.

Even if he's leaving, they will still try to obtain a megastar haul. If a team has no other means -- aka, no cap space -- like most contenders, you [B] must[/B] work it through a trade. The playoff team with cap space to sign $60M is nonexistent.[/QUOTE]


that part is pretty easy if they want to do it. There are so many massive contract. You could work that out pretty much everywhere. 26 players make at least 44 million. Jimmy Butler actually makes the exact same amount as Giannis down to the dollar this year. They could trade him and Kuzma for Jimmy Kuminga and every pick the league rules will allow them to send. Money works. And Jimmy expires next year. Gordon and Braun gets you to 53 million to send him to Denver with all the picks that are allowed to come back.

Vanvleet Adams and Finney-Smith get you to 52 million.

Giannis and Portis gets you a near salary match with LeBron and Reaves…buyout LeBron and have the cap space. LeBron signs anywhere he wants.

The Knicks can make the numbers work without giving up Bronson or towns and three or four ways. They just don’t have picks to send back.

The logistics will never be a problem. He could get pretty much anywhere in the league he wanted to. The issue will be if one of the contenders wants to give up every draft pick they can get their hands on until 2033.

Since any team can acquire him is just a game of chicken to see how far you can drive the price down before they get LeBronned And he walks when they could’ve had a legendary haul.

any team that wants him bad enough will be able to figure something out and role players and borderline All-Stars make so much money pretty much everybody can do it without having to send back a superstar.

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855;15044480]that part is pretty easy if they want to do it. There are so many massive contract. You could work that out pretty much everywhere. 26 players make at least 44 million. Jimmy Butler actually makes the exact same amount as Giannis down to the dollar this year. They could trade him and Kuzma for Jimmy Kuminga and every pick the league rules will allow them to send. Money works. And Jimmy expires next year. Gordon and Braun gets you to 53 million to send him to Denver with all the picks that are allowed to come back.

Vanvleet Adams and Finney-Smith get you to 52 million.

Giannis and Portis gets you a near salary match with LeBron and Reaves…buyout LeBron and have the cap space. LeBron signs anywhere he wants.

The Knicks can make the numbers work without giving up Bronson or towns and three or four ways. They just don’t have picks to send back.

The logistics will never be a problem. He could get pretty much anywhere in the league he wanted to. The issue will be if one of the contenders wants to give up every draft pick they can get their hands on until 2033.

Since any team can acquire him is just a game of chicken to see how far you can drive the price down before they get LeBronned And he walks when they could’ve had a legendary haul.

any team that wants him bad enough will be able to figure something out and role players and borderline All-Stars make so much money pretty much everybody can do it without having to send back a superstar.[/QUOTE]

What value does a tanking, rebuilding team see in FVV, Adams, and DFS?

Your trades are financially sound, but completely illogical. You're basically suggesting that the Bucks will send Giannis to his preferred destination for trash as a departing "thank you." Something that has rarely been seen in sports for a player who is still good, and probably never seen even once for a player who is actively playing at an MVP level.

[QUOTE=beasted;15044561]What value does a tanking, rebuilding team see in FVV, Adams, and DFS?

Your trades are financially sound, but completely illogical. You're basically suggesting that the Bucks will send Giannis to his preferred destination for trash as a departing "thank you." Something that has rarely been seen in sports for a player who is still good, and probably never seen even once for a player who is actively playing at an MVP level.[/QUOTE]Not as a "thank you" but because these packages are better than getting nothing when he walks as a free agent. You can deal a solid vet player for some asset that suits you better after the fact. Recent NBA history is full of deals where a team accepts a trade under the value of a star because that guy is prepared to walk. Only time the team losing the star has benefitted is when they were trading Paul George.

I just don't see a team unloading anything for a couple of months Giannis rental, which is just about all there is to get out of him given the trade market for him specifically, pragmatically speaking.

Again, he would only want a trade if he's contending unless he has changed his mind and just wants out of Milwaukee period which has never seemed to be the case.

OKC is the only team that can continue to contend while giving the Bucks something that isn't utter shit in return and OKC is unlikely to mess with their formula.

You guys have to come up with something more realistic where it's a team that Giannis will stay on post trade before I disagree with OP.


A Jimmy Butler package? Even then GSW would have this season + next probably maximum maximum maximum.

It's just really hard to get a deal done where he ends up on a team that is still a contender or becomes a contender post trade.

I am not predicting this but if he actually wanted out then a rebuilding Milwaukee could tank this year by trading him for a package based on Tyrese Haliburton. Of course if he didn't come back strong it would be a terrible deal. But the basic idea is that if he tells them he's gone at the season's end and the season is looking just like the last few years then they may as well take the hit in value now than take the total loss at the end of the season.

[QUOTE=Real Men Wear Green;15044576]I am not predicting this but if he actually wanted out then a rebuilding Milwaukee could tank this year by trading him for a package based on Tyrese Haliburton. Of course if he didn't come back strong it would be a terrible deal. But the basic idea is that if he tells them he's gone at the season's end and the season is looking just like the last few years then they may as well take the hit in value now than take the total loss at the end of the season.[/QUOTE]

I agree with you completely from Milwaukee's POV but that's not the whole story is it?

Giannis says yes to going to Indiana if they lose Haliburton in the process? You really think?

Spoiler: they're 2-15 right now. The answer is a resounding hell no.

[QUOTE=beasted;15044561]What value does a tanking, rebuilding team see in FVV, Adams, and DFS?

Your trades are financially sound, but completely illogical. You're basically suggesting that the Bucks will send Giannis to his preferred destination for trash as a departing "thank you." Something that has rarely been seen in sports for a player who is still good, and probably never seen even once for a player who is actively playing at an MVP level.[/QUOTE]

almost none of those were about the value of the players. Maybe the Laker one. It’s just demonstrating how incredibly easy it is to match the money. All of these trades end up being about draft picks. These superstar trades are about the pics more than the players. The times where you get a future superstar and the haul of picks like the Paul George trade are once in a generation if you’re lucky.

But a few of those teams could offer something like that as well, depending on what you think about some of the young players. You can never assume someone turns into an MVP, but a lot of good teams can offer potential young all stars and every pick they can manage While still matching the money without long-term contracts.

[QUOTE=Yes or No;15044578]I agree with you completely from Milwaukee's POV but that's not the whole story is it?

Giannis says yes to going to Indiana if they lose Haliburton in the process? You really think?

Spoiler: they're 2-15 right now. The answer is a resounding hell no.[/QUOTE]

It's just a hypothetical. There are other teams that could put up enough salary and tie it to young talent(s) or lottery pick. The team that trades for him is rolling the dice on selling Giannis in joining them. A team like Sacramento with no reason to live may as well go for it, put Lavine with some more salary and some future picks, see where Sabonis and Giannis can get you.

[QUOTE=Real Men Wear Green;15044565]Not as a "thank you" but because these packages are better than getting nothing when he walks as a free agent. You can deal a solid vet player for some asset that suits you better after the fact. Recent NBA history is full of deals where a team accepts a trade under the value of a star because that guy is prepared to walk. Only time the team losing the star has benefitted is when they were trading Paul George.[/QUOTE]

Well, let's see, the bloated contracts of guys with no real value -- specificlaly, if traded, these guys will not net you any first round picks -- or use the cap space to accept salary dump contracts for the sake of receiving a first round pick (aka the Thunder approach).

Me thinks I would rather lose Giannis for nothing than take bad contracts and no picks since Houston doesn't really have FRPs to trade.

But, that's just me. Besides, none of what scenarios you're talking about has EVER happened with an MVP caliber player in modern times. Comparing say (as a recent example) what Philly takes back when trading Butler to Miami is quite different from what Milwaukee needs to think about taking when trading Giannis.

Off the top of my head Durant has been moved twice for whatever a team could cobble together. James Harden got traded for a guy that refuses to play basketball.

[QUOTE=Real Men Wear Green;15044594]Off the top of my head Durant has been moved twice for whatever a team could cobble together. James Harden got traded for a guy that refuses to play basketball.[/QUOTE]

After Harden took the Butler approach both times. And both times Durant got traded, the team received good value.

Bridges and Johnson were both players that ended up yielding first rounders, on top of the picks they already got in the deal.

Taking a FVV, Adams, DFS package are old players with no re-flippable value.

I think if Giannis gets moved, its a package like the Hawks idea I suggested. Definitely not a "take filler contracts and firsts" type deal.

[QUOTE=beasted;15044597]After Harden took the Butler approach both times. And both times Durant got traded, the team received good value.

Bridges and Johnson were both players that ended up yielding first rounders, on top of the picks they already got in the deal.

Taking a FVV, Adams, DFS package are old players with no re-flippable value.

I think if Giannis gets moved, its a package like the Hawks idea I suggested. Definitely not a "take filler contracts and firsts" type deal.[/QUOTE]

In what world does Giannis go to the Hawks and stay there for more than the few months before leaving in free agency?

You can put together packages all day long that will work from a monetary perspective. But there's more going on.

There are four factors at play here. Make the money work, he wants to play there, Milwaukee gets something in return, it's not so much in return that he refuses to stay.

What scenario & team meets all of those?

Giannis is better right now than Durant & Harden were when they got moved and it's not close.

I don't see it happening unless some team agrees to a rental with a prayer.

edit: oh shit he has 1 more year left after this one before free agency. I thought it was this coming summer. That changes a lot. Well who tf knows.

[QUOTE=Yes or No;15044609]In what world does Giannis go to the Hawks and stay there for more than the few months before leaving in free agency?

You can put together packages all day long that will work from a monetary perspective. But there's more going on.

There are four factors at play here. Make the money work, he wants to play there, Milwaukee gets something in return, it's not so much in return that he refuses to stay.

What scenario & team meets all of those?

Giannis is better right now than Durant & Harden were when they got moved and it's not close.

I don't see it happening unless some team agrees to a rental with a prayer.

edit: oh shit he has 1 more year left after this one before free agency. I thought it was this coming summer. That changes a lot. Well who tf knows.[/QUOTE]

I think you edited to answer my rationale. The Hawks or some other decent-but-not-contending team has the right mix of [B]young all-star current/caliber[/B] talent plus picks.

Ex:
Young talent:
Jalen Johnson - on pace for his first all-star appearance.
Zachary Risacher- plenty of untapped potential, sky is the limit.
Fillers and 3-4 picks.

New lineup is: Young, NAW, Daniels, Giannis, KP

Could be a 2nd round playoff team with everyone healthy and meshing. And then they use the summer to make adjustments to bring in enough talent in the hopes it convinces Giannis to stay.