Last night showed how Lebron can't defeat max defensive attention (carry scoring load

He never successfully carried the scoring load on the championship level, so he never defeated max defensive attention, and he never carried weak help over top teams (never beat a top 5 SRS team with weak scoring & efficiency from a sidekick).

The reason that he can't carry the scoring load vs top teams is because excessive ball-dominance can't beat top teams.. Since he can't carry the scoring load/defeat max defensive attention, he needs equal-scoring partners to attract equal defensive attention.. These equal-scoring partner are usually franchise players like Wade, Kyrie, AD or Luka, who all matched or led Lebron in PPG for a playoff run.. Lebron's need for franchise players means that he can't win with "normal" rosters of 1 franchise player, aka organically.. Furthermore, his style of imposing spot-up roles further hampers the chemistry needed to win organically.

Lebron has all the stats.

[QUOTE=StrongLurk;15046465]Lebron has all the stats.[/QUOTE]


So does Stockton, Kareem, and Kevin Willis.. So stats are nothing... It's the per game leaders that shows the best in each category (aka APG shows that Magic is a better passer than Stockton, but career assists doesn't show this)

OP wants to carry Lebron's load.

[QUOTE=tontoz;15046467]OP wants to carry Lebron's load.[/QUOTE]

Sheeeit....wants? :oldlol:

Last night showed why he's the GOAT.

[QUOTE=Hey Yo;15046476]Last night showed why he's the GOAT.[/QUOTE]

^That's exactly the problem. Bronie fluffers have loooowwwwwwwwww standards.

[QUOTE=Hey Yo;15046476]Last night showed why he's the GOAT.[/QUOTE]


Playing at a prime Jae Crowder level makes you goat now?.. Essentially, being a Lebron fan entails finding new ways to demonstrate dumbness

"LeBron can't win with total scrubs as teammates and therefore is not good"

Generally, teams need multiple top players to win. It's a competitive league. That's just how it goes.

Bron joined up with the 2nd and 4th highest PER in the league only to lose while being outscored by Jason Terry in the NBA finals.

That would be like if Michael Jordan joked up with Magic Johnson and Hakeem Olijuawon and got out scored by John Starks

[QUOTE=bdonovan;15046573]"LeBron can't win with total scrubs as teammates and therefore is not good"

Generally, teams need multiple top players to win. It's a competitive league. That's just how it goes.[/QUOTE]

Similar to Jordan's 6 rings, Curry won inn 2015 and 2022 by defeating max defensive attention, aka carrying the scoring load and a team of secondary producers.

These secondary producers averaged 10-20 ppg, while Lebron enjoys elite-producers and franchise players at sidekick that had their own team and average 25-30 ppg - they often led Lebron in scoring for entire playoff runs (11', 20', 25', 16').. Lebron had 3 sidekicks that were considered top 4 in the league at the time he joined them (Wade, AD, Luka).. This doesn't compare to secondary producers like Klay, Pippen, or Pau (who wasn't All-NBA until he joined Kobe).. Lebron's other sidekick (Kyrie) was equal-scoring partner for the 16' Playoff run and outplayed the MVP in the Finals.. This constitutes "getting carried" compared to the help Jordan or Curry got from their teammates.

Remember that carrying the scoring load MATTERS because carrying the "star" category of scoring requires less stars, which allows GM's to get the right defenders/others, aka elite roster construction.. So Lebron prevents elite roster construction compared to guys that can carry the scoring load (non-ball-dominators) like Curry, MJ, Kobe or Duncan.

Lebron's load is all OP thinks about.

[QUOTE=tontoz;15046467]OP wants to carry Lebron's load.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=StrongLurk;15046695]Lebron's load is all OP thinks about.[/QUOTE]
This.

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Thread Cliffs


carrying the scoring load MATTERS because carrying the "star" category of scoring requires less stars, which allows GM's to get the right defenders/others, aka elite roster construction.. So Lebron prevents elite roster construction compared to guys that can carry the scoring load (non-ball-dominators) like Curry, MJ, Kobe or Duncan

Crazy the similarities between Curry and MJ, they both won their 1st title beating banged up opponents in the finals (1991 & 2015) thanks for pointing that out OP.

[QUOTE=sdot_thadon;15046707]Crazy the similarities between Curry and MJ, they both won their 1st title beating banged up opponents in the finals (1991 & 2015) thanks for pointing that out OP.[/QUOTE]
Pippen also outscored Ewing, Isiah AND Magic in that title run. His 2nd option was out here outscoring HOF's/3 members of the OG top 50 players list.

[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents;15046708]Pippen also outscored Ewing, Isiah AND Magic in that title run. His 2nd option was out here outscoring HOF's/3 members of the OG top 50 players list.[/QUOTE]


91' was Pippen's only viable playoff run, since X-Man destroyed him in 92' and he stunk from 88-90' and 99-03', while averaging 17 on 41% for the 96-98' Playoffs..

Then he shot 46.9% true shooting in the 93' Finals and was destroyed by Dominique in the 1st Round.

So again, 91' was pippen's only viable run and we're talking 20 ppg on good efficiency - so nothing earth-shattering like Kyrie outplaying the league MVP, or AD destroying Jokic,, or Wade destroying Dirk - Lebron is the only guy in history that got 27 ppg from his sidekick.. there might be 1 exception to this but otherwise lebron's help is unparalleled

91-98 Pippen averaged more PPG than Magic did in their dynasty playoff runs (1980-1988). Pippen also has 6 rings to Magic's 5.

According to OP, Prime Pippen is better than Prime Magic.

All this dude does is thinking about the next thing to say about LeBron. He wants attention and we are allowing this.

LebRon stans stop being so sensitive and insecure.

[QUOTE=3ba11;15046683] Lebron's other sidekick (Kyrie) was equal-scoring partner for the 16' Playoff run and outplayed the MVP in the Finals.. This constitutes "getting carried" compared to the help Jordan or Curry got from their teammates.[/QUOTE]

Steph was arguably outplayed by his teammates in the finals; [I]he only won one FVMP out of 4 finals[/I].

LeBron scored the highest amount of PPG in every one of his finals he's appeared in. He outscored Kyrie in that series. Curry was outscored in both finals wins with Durant on the team by Durant.

I'm only bringing this up because you used it in your argument.

How do you define elite producers? Durant or Pippen, absolutely legendary players, as a second option - clearly elite.

Teams are more than two people. If you look at the top 3, the third option for MJ and Curry were defensive superstars- Rodman and Green. James won with third option being Bosh or Kevin Love.

Unlike Curry, we can see clearly what happened to these supposedly elite players LeBron played with after he left. [B]When LeBron left the heat, Wade and Bosh stayed and were 37-45. [/B] Quite a drop off.

I'm sure there will be tons of "buts" to this, but the simple reality is LeBron's impact on the team is significant, and if his teammates were as good as you say they were, they would have performed.

[B]When Jordan left the Bulls in 93-94, the Bulls were 55-27 without him. [/B] Now that's an elite supporting unit.

[QUOTE=3ba11;15046710]91' was Pippen's only viable playoff run, since X-Man destroyed him in 92' and he stunk from 88-90' and 99-03', while averaging 17 on 41% for the 96-98' Playoffs..

Then he shot 46.9% true shooting in the 93' Finals and was destroyed by Dominique in the 1st Round.

So again, 91' was pippen's only viable run and we're talking 20 ppg on good efficiency - so nothing earth-shattering like Kyrie outplaying the league MVP, or AD destroying Jokic,, or Wade destroying Dirk - Lebron is the only guy in history that got 27 ppg from his sidekick.. there might be 1 exception to this but otherwise lebron's help is unparalleled[/QUOTE]

But you've said 100X and quite adamant that LeBron makes his teammates worse. The constant lies is proof that you know he's the GOAT.

[QUOTE=3ba11;15046710]Lebron is the only guy in history that got 27 ppg from his sidekick.. there might be 1 exception to this but otherwise lebron's help is unparalleled[/QUOTE]
This just may be the biggest lie you've ever tried to tell.