It's time to have a REALLY uncomfortable conversation

So I was going to toss this in the Magic/Bird thread I made the other day but I thought this merited it's own thread.

What would you say if I told you that Magic purposely threw the 1984 finals?

[video=youtube;kSlWNU5_JVc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSlWNU5_JVc[/video]

^^ I'm sorry but this looks REALLY fishy.

As you're all aware he was given the nickname "Tragic Johnson" after this series. The only reason it didn't stick is because he redeemed himself the following year and the Lakers beat the Celts for the trophy.

But by this point Magic had won in college and twice already in the pros. It's hard for me to buy that he cracked under the pressure. I know this was his first finals against Bird but come on this wasn't his first go around. These mistakes and these chokes are inexcusable. Either he was compromised or it was the biggest choke job from a high caliber goat level player I've ever seen.

This isn't my first time seeing this obviously but in the past I just hadn't considered that possibility. Now that I know these players are all degenerate gamblers themselves and that they frequently buddy around with a lot of hard money people, whose really to say? Maybe Magic got himself in some trouble. You can't watch that footage and tell me something isn't up.

I thought maybe I was crazy but if you read the comments a lot of people point it out too.

i think some guys were asking about you in the political forum. a black guy particularly. he had a wrench in his hand.

I see a great team beating another great team in a physical era without the spacing and offensive advantages you are used to seeing today. :coleman:

Sometimes guys just have a bad day at the office. Only diffenrce is a maybe a hundred thousand watched his lol.

What does Magic get out of throwing the game? It would have to be pretty impactful for him not to mind people saying he choked/the blame for the loss the rest of his life.

Statistically Magic had his standard really good series, he played worse (assuming he was trying obv) in the Finals the year before and against Houston in '81, so he could've played worse in this series without it setting off any alarm bells.

The biggest flaw with this theory is, if Magic was really trying to intentionally sabotage the series, I don't think he'd cut things as close as he did in Games 2 & 4. He would've needed to rely on Boston coming through in the clutch AND his own teammates like Worthy coming up short in order to execute this plan.

A Lakers win in either game, specifically Game 4 where they had a 5 point lead in the final minute, gives the Lakers a hammerlock on the series. If he were truly trying to throw the series, he would've never cut things that excruciatingly close, I just don't believe it.

[QUOTE=Hey Yo;15047043][B]What does Magic get out of throwing the game?[/B] It would have to be pretty impactful for him not to mind people saying he choked/the blame for the loss the rest of his life.[/QUOTE]

Really? You have to ask that? After what we've seen these last few months?

These players are ultra competitive and are degenerate gamblers themselves. Jordan always talks about how he and Magic played cards all hours of the night in Barcelona. When you have millions of dollars and you want to gamble, and you're a famous athlete in the public eye, it's not like you have options. If Magic Johnson decides he wants to gamble $50k, who is there to take that action? Somebody obviously. Maybe someone with an italian last name?

Anyway that's beside the point. Magic was living the high life which meant he was also living the fast life. Who knows what type of people he rubbed shoulders with or what kind of trouble he could have gotten himself into. It's Hollywood, use your imagination.

It's just REALLY hard for me to believe that Magic dribbled out the game clock and passed it to a teammate as the clock ticked down to 0:00. :oldlol: And that's just one mistake. If you watch the video there are other plays that just don't make sense. If he wasn't throwing the game then you have to explain how one of the most genius players ever can have those types of brain farts in such key moments.

Considering Magic was making less than a million a year after taxes (not including endorsements) during that time, I guess it could be a possibility.

Did Thomas deliberately throw the game when Bird stole his inbounds pass?

Dbl post

[QUOTE=Baller234;15047047]Really? You have to ask that? After what we've seen these last few months?

These players are ultra competitive and are degenerate gamblers themselves. Jordan always talks about how he and Magic played cards all hours of the night in Barcelona. When you have millions of dollars and you want to gamble, and you're a famous athlete in the public eye, it's not like you have options. If Magic Johnson decides he wants to gamble $50k, who is there to take that action? Somebody obviously. Maybe someone with an italian last name?

Anyway that's beside the point. Magic was living the high life which meant he was also living the fast life. Who knows what type of people he rubbed shoulders with or what kind of trouble he could have gotten himself into. It's Hollywood, use your imagination.

It's just REALLY hard for me to believe that Magic dribbled out the game clock and passed it to a teammate as the clock ticked down to 0:00. :oldlol: And that's just one mistake. If you watch the video there are other plays that just don't make sense. If he wasn't throwing the game then you have to explain how one of the most genius players ever can have those types of brain farts in such key moments.[/QUOTE]

Looked like he wanted to get it to kareem. Probably thought he didnt have a deep enough post position or was being guarded to closely so he passed it to the open man as a pass first pg is apt to do. You are to used to todays game where they iso and get whatever they want because the rules are made for that

[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You;15047052]Looked like he wanted to get it to kareem. Probably thought he didnt have a deep enough post position or was being guarded to closely so he passed it to the open man as a pass first pg is apt to do. You are to used to todays game where they iso and get whatever they want because the rules are made for that[/QUOTE]

He didn't see the clock? :oldlol:

edit: Lol I just watched it again. He HAD Lew. If he wanted to get him the ball he could have. Magic's decision to dribble in closer and just hold onto the ball is REALLY sus.

[QUOTE=Hey Yo;15047049]Considering Magic was making less than a million a year after taxes (not including endorsements) during that time, I guess it could be a possibility.

Did Thomas deliberately throw the game when Bird stole his inbounds pass?[/QUOTE]

Honestly who knows?

I'm not saying this gives us an excuse to re-litigate every choke job and evert bad play throughout history, but Magic's play is really suspicious here. I wouldn't have brought it up if I thought it was just him playing bad. It genuinely looks deliberate to me. I'm like 80% there.

[QUOTE=Baller234;15047031]So I was going to toss this in the Magic/Bird thread I made the other day but I thought this merited it's own thread.

What would you say if I told you that Magic purposely threw the 1984 finals?

[video=youtube;kSlWNU5_JVc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSlWNU5_JVc[/video]

^^ I'm sorry but this looks REALLY fishy.

As you're all aware he was given the nickname "Tragic Johnson" after this series. The only reason it didn't stick is because he redeemed himself the following year and the Lakers beat the Celts for the trophy.

But by this point Magic had won in college and twice already in the pros. It's hard for me to buy that he cracked under the pressure. I know this was his first finals against Bird but come on this wasn't his first go around. These mistakes and these chokes are inexcusable. Either he was compromised or it was the biggest choke job from a high caliber goat level player I've ever seen.

This isn't my first time seeing this obviously but in the past I just hadn't considered that possibility. Now that I know these players are all degenerate gamblers themselves and that they frequently buddy around with a lot of hard money people, whose really to say? Maybe Magic got himself in some trouble. You can't watch that footage and tell me something isn't up.

I thought maybe I was crazy but if you read the comments a lot of people point it out too.[/QUOTE]

I think this idea is nonsense. Remember Magic crying in the shower with Cooper after game 7? And Thomas and Aguirre trying to comfort Magic at the hotel? And Magic not going out all summer due to embarrassment? And Magic dedicating to improve his game? Bird and Magic respected each other but this was before the Converse commercial was made and before their friendship began. There is no way Magic wanted to lose to his arch rival.

[QUOTE=mr4speed;15047062][B]I think this idea is nonsense. Remember Magic crying in the shower with Cooper after game 7? And Thomas and Aguirre trying to comfort Magic at the hotel? And Magic not going out all summer due to embarrassment?[/B] And Magic dedicating to improve his game? Bird and Magic respected each other but this was before the Converse commercial was made and before their friendship began. There is no way Magic wanted to lose to his arch rival.[/QUOTE]

You're really not helping your case pal. :oldlol:

If Magic threw the game on purpose then he probably *would* feel extreme shame. He *would* lay low all summer and try to avoid the press. I could understand being upset and shedding tears after a tough loss but if you're telling me he was inconsolable hours after the game that makes me even more suspicious. Maybe something else was going on.

I mean there are so many questionable moments in those clips. Wtf is he doing starting at 5:15?? :oldlol:

Some YT comments I thought were worth highlighting:

"Tf was he doing :oldlol:"

"It honestly looks like he threw the game on purpose"

"this looks more like magic was paid to throw games or was in debt with mafia lol"

"Man, you almost wonder if Magic was intentionally throwing this game."

"Serious question: Was Magic on the take this series?"

"Magic looked shook on these plays. It almost looks like hes blatantly turning over the ball. Looks like he threw this thing to me I hope that not the case but it sure looks like it in these plays."

"Not a conspiracy theorist but damn.. did Magic owe the mob money? Lol I get having a lapse once or even twice but this just doesn't make sense."

"Sports have been rigged forever"

"Nah Magic was sellin :oldlol::oldlol: Bookie must’ve mailed him a pic of his crib lol"

"With so many uncharacteristic mistakes by one of the greatest basketball players of all-time within the same Finals series, I am surprised nobody has ever talked about conspiracies or fixes. Especially with the 2 turnovers in the last 1:30 of Game 7. "

^ There's so many more.

Like I said I didn't even read the comments when the thought first crossed my mind. Clearly I'm not the only one.

[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents;15047044]Statistically Magic had his standard really good series, he played worse (assuming he was trying obv) in the Finals the year before and against Houston in '81, so he could've played worse in this series without it setting off any alarm bells.

The biggest flaw with this theory is, if Magic was really trying to intentionally sabotage the series, I don't think he'd cut things as close as he did in Games 2 & 4. He would've needed to rely on Boston coming through in the clutch AND his own teammates like Worthy coming up short in order to execute this plan.

A Lakers win in either game, specifically Game 4 where they had a 5 point lead in the final minute, gives the Lakers a hammerlock on the series. If he were truly trying to throw the series, he would've never cut things that excruciatingly close, I just don't believe it.[/QUOTE]
I would genuinely like to hear a rebuttal on this, you responded to every other post but I think this is the most damning evidence against your theory of him throwing this intentionally. He played it WAY too close to the vest imo, leaving the Celtics a play away from a substantial 2-0 or 3-1 deficit.

[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents;15047068]I would genuinely like to hear a rebuttal on this, you responded to every other post but I think this is the most damning evidence against your theory of him throwing this intentionally. He played it WAY too close to the vest imo, leaving the Celtics a play away from a substantial 2-0 or 3-1 deficit.[/QUOTE]

True but if he played bad and made costly mistakes all game throughout the whole series, never giving his teams a chance, it might have looked even more suspicious. If my theory is correct then he would want to keep things competitive to throw people off. When the game is close during crunch time he knows the team is going to play through him anyway and he'll have the ball.

You bring up Game 4. Now to his credit he DOES sink two free throws with under a minute left in regulation. Yes theoretically he could have intentionally bricked those. But there WAS a minute left, and man... he makes a REALLY bad and suspicious looking defensive gamble on DJ immediately after which allows him to penetrate and it leads to a Boston and 1. And when time is about to run out he makes another questionable pass to Worthy which gets deflected and forces OT. Maybe he was walking the tight rope, trying his best to both throw the game but also make it look like he gave it everything he had.

I left some room for doubt. I didn't say I was 100% positive. But his play was REALLY weird.

He simply choked. It happens. I honestly think the moment was too big for him, I understand he had already had 2 chips before that, but playing in Boston during those times would do that. The '84 Celtics in particular were also a team filled with trash talkers, wouldn't surprise me if their talking got to Magic.

Bird also missed a layup vs the Cavs in '92 (game 4) that would have sent the game to another OT. Stuff like this happens.

[QUOTE=Baller234;15047065]You're really not helping your case pal. :oldlol:

If Magic threw the game on purpose then he probably *would* feel extreme shame. He *would* lay low all summer and try to avoid the press. I could understand being upset and shedding tears after a tough loss but if you're telling me he was inconsolable hours after the game that makes me even more suspicious. Maybe something else was going on.

I mean there are so many questionable moments in those clips. Wtf is he doing starting at 5:15?? :oldlol:[/QUOTE]

His behaviour is consistent with a player knowing they played poorly and did it on the biggest stage. If I am correct, Magic never did drugs, was not a drinker, and the only gambling he did was with his teammates. Magic had all kinds of people that would protect him and support him. I do not believe any of this "throwing games" stuff. Magic wanted to win every game he played.

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;15047075]He simply choked. It happens. I honestly think the moment was too big for him, I understand he had already had 2 chips before that, but playing in Boston during those times would do that. The '84 Celtics in particular were also a team filled with trash talkers, wouldn't surprise me if their talking got to Magic.

Bird also missed a layup vs the Cavs in '92 (game 4) that would have sent the game to another OT. Stuff like this happens.[/QUOTE]

A missed layup or missed shot can happen to anyone. That's not suspicious at all.

It's Magic's decision making that is being called into question. In those clips he can be seen making some highly questionable decisions.

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;15047075]He simply choked. It happens. I honestly think the moment was too big for him, I understand he had already had 2 chips before that, but playing in Boston during those times would do that. The '84 Celtics in particular were also a team filled with trash talkers, wouldn't surprise me if their talking got to Magic.

Bird also missed a layup vs the Cavs in '92 (game 4) that would have sent the game to another OT. Stuff like this happens.[/QUOTE]

A missed layup or missed shot can happen to anyone. That's not suspicious at all.

It's Magic's decision making that is being called into question. In those clips he can be seen making some highly questionable decisions.