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Dennis Rodman on the 2nd three-peat Bulls was so overrated
Dennis Rodman was so overrated to have been called one of the "Big 3" of the 2nd three-peat bulls, this is what Rodman averaged in 1996, 1997, and 1998 playoffs:
1996:
7.5ppg, 13.7rpg, 2.1apg, 48.5%FG
1997:
4.2ppg, 8.4rpg, 1.4apg, 37.0%FG
1998:
4.9ppg, 11.8rpg, 2.0apg, 37.1%FG
And here is what Pau Gasol averaged in the 2008, 2009, and 2010 playoffs:
2008:
16.9ppg, 9.3rpg, 4apg, 53%FG
2009:
18.3rpg, 10.8rpg, 2.5apg, 58%FG
2010:
19.6ppg, 11.1rpg, 3.5apg, 53.9%FG
The second three-peat Bulls has the WEAKEST frontcourt in the history of NBA out of all championship teams, and it's amazing how they could of threepeated against opponents such as Shaquille O'Neal, Shawn Kemp, Karl Malone, Patrick Ewing, Alonzo Mourning
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Re: Dennis Rodman on the 2nd three-peat Bulls was so overrated
why are you comparing a 2nd option to a non option/rebound specialist?
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Re: Dennis Rodman on the 2nd three-peat Bulls was so overrated
[QUOTE=Derivative]Dennis Rodman was so overrated to have been called one of the "Big 3" of the 2nd three-peat bulls, this is what Rodman averaged in 1996, 1997, and 1998 playoffs:
1996:
7.5ppg, 13.7rpg, 2.1apg, 48.5%FG
1997:
4.2ppg, 8.4rpg, 1.4apg, 37.0%FG
1998:
4.9ppg, 11.8rpg, 2.0apg, 37.1%FG
And here is what Pau Gasol averaged in the 2008, 2009, and 2010 playoffs:
2008:
16.9ppg, 9.3rpg, 4apg, 53%FG
2009:
18.3rpg, 10.8rpg, 2.5apg, 58%FG
2010:
19.6ppg, 11.1rpg, 3.5apg, 53.9%FG[/QUOTE]
what do those numbers look like in the Finals for each season, and who did each guy guard primarily (and what were each matchup's numbers)?
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Re: Dennis Rodman on the 2nd three-peat Bulls was so overrated
He was still a fantastic player, he just wasn't quite the same defensive player he once was.
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Re: Dennis Rodman on the 2nd three-peat Bulls was so overrated
stats aren't everything, you obviously weren't old enough to watch the bulls, coz rodman bought a lot more than stats to the team.
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Re: Dennis Rodman on the 2nd three-peat Bulls was so overrated
[QUOTE=Levity]why are you comparing a 2nd option to a non option/rebound specialist?[/QUOTE]
because kobe fans would say dennis rodman is better than Pau Gasol
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Re: Dennis Rodman on the 2nd three-peat Bulls was so overrated
[quote=Derivative]because kobe fans would say dennis rodman is better than Pau Gasol[/quote]
Within each of the Rodman titles he played with different impacts.
Having watched many Bulls games in that period I can tell you the stats dont tell the story.
He was very different to Pau, hard to compare.
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Re: Dennis Rodman on the 2nd three-peat Bulls was so overrated
[QUOTE=Derivative]Dennis Rodman was so overrated to have been called one of the "Big 3" of the 2nd three-peat bulls, this is what Rodman averaged in 1996, 1997, and 1998 playoffs:
1996:
7.5ppg, 13.7rpg, 2.1apg, 48.5%FG
1997:
4.2ppg, 8.4rpg, 1.4apg, 37.0%FG
1998:
4.9ppg, 11.8rpg, 2.0apg, 37.1%FG
And here is what Pau Gasol averaged in the 2008, 2009, and 2010 playoffs:
2008:
16.9ppg, 9.3rpg, 4apg, 53%FG
2009:
18.3rpg, 10.8rpg, 2.5apg, 58%FG
2010:
19.6ppg, 11.1rpg, 3.5apg, 53.9%FG
The second three-peat Bulls has the WEAKEST frontcourt in the history of NBA out of all championship teams, [B]and it's amazing how they could of threepeated against opponents such as Shaquille O'Neal, Shawn Kemp, Karl Malone[/B][/QUOTE]
Rodman played some good D against Shaq.
But yeah, it's pretty shocking how teams that were more talented than the Bulls with a better frontline lose to them. Look at the whole 1996 playoffs. They had to go through Mourning, Ewing, and Shaq.
When people asked Magic and Bird about the Bulls that year, they said that their frontline is their weakness, but the Bulls went through dealt with the top centers and good frontlines every single round. It was amazing.
Even more amazing is that I don't know where they get their offense because they offense get really ugly at times since they couldn't make anything. They definitely took the principle of defense wins games. But they are very lucky to have Rodman. Rodman with the hustle plays and rebounds really helped them win games.
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Re: Dennis Rodman on the 2nd three-peat Bulls was so overrated
The difference of course was that Rodman put up those rebounding numbers in 32 minutes a game to Gasol's 40 and was the anchor to the Bulls #1, #3 and #4 ranked defense. :facepalm
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Re: Dennis Rodman on the 2nd three-peat Bulls was so overrated
[QUOTE=Yao Ming's Foot]The difference of course was that Rodman put up those rebounding numbers in 32 minutes a game to Gasol's 40 and was the anchor to the Bulls #1, #3 and #4 ranked defense. :facepalm[/QUOTE]
the anchor of bull's defense was Jordan+Pippen :facepalm :facepalm
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Re: Dennis Rodman on the 2nd three-peat Bulls was so overrated
[QUOTE=Derivative]the anchor of bull's defense was Jordan+Pippen :facepalm :facepalm[/QUOTE]
This.
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Re: Dennis Rodman on the 2nd three-peat Bulls was so overrated
[quote=Derivative]the anchor of bull's defense was Jordan+Pippen :facepalm :facepalm[/quote]
and Rodman.
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Re: Dennis Rodman on the 2nd three-peat Bulls was so overrated
[QUOTE=Derivative]the anchor of bull's defense was Jordan+Pippen :facepalm :facepalm[/QUOTE]
Which is why their D was only 7th, 4th and 7th during the first 3 peat and second when Jordan missed most of the season...:oldlol:
Jordan mythologists :facepalm
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Re: Dennis Rodman on the 2nd three-peat Bulls was so overrated
Dennis Rodman is one of the best bball players ever and that was before even going to the Bulls. Only downside was his mental flakiness.
Of course if you all you care about is step back 20 footers, well...
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Re: Dennis Rodman on the 2nd three-peat Bulls was so overrated
The Bulls don't beat the Sonics without Dennis.
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Re: Dennis Rodman on the 2nd three-peat Bulls was so overrated
[quote=longhornfan1234]The Bulls don't beat the Sonics without Dennis.[/quote]
They dont win a title any season in second three peat without him.
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Re: Dennis Rodman on the 2nd three-peat Bulls was so overrated
He played a lower amount of minutes than usual in the playoffs (only 32.4 minutes per game in the playoffs during the Bulls three-peat).
His playoff per 36 minutes numbers are still good:
1996: 14.3 reb
1997: 10.8 reb
1998: 12.4 reb
Most stars get around 39 minutes per game in the playoffs...some stars even get up to 43 or 44 minutes per game in the playoffs.
Gasol has been given 39.1 minutes per game in the playoffs as a Laker.
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Re: Dennis Rodman on the 2nd three-peat Bulls was so overrated
[QUOTE=Derivative]Dennis Rodman was so overrated to have been called one of the "Big 3" of the 2nd three-peat bulls, this is what Rodman averaged in 1996, 1997, and 1998 playoffs:
1996:
7.5ppg, 13.7rpg, 2.1apg, 48.5%FG
1997:
4.2ppg, 8.4rpg, 1.4apg, 37.0%FG
1998:
4.9ppg, 11.8rpg, 2.0apg, 37.1%FG
And here is what Pau Gasol averaged in the 2008, 2009, and 2010 playoffs:
2008:
16.9ppg, 9.3rpg, 4apg, 53%FG
2009:
18.3rpg, 10.8rpg, 2.5apg, 58%FG
2010:
19.6ppg, 11.1rpg, 3.5apg, 53.9%FG
The second three-peat Bulls has the WEAKEST frontcourt in the history of NBA out of all championship teams, and it's amazing how they could of threepeated against opponents such as Shaquille O'Neal, Shawn Kemp, Karl Malone, Patrick Ewing, Alonzo Mourning[/QUOTE]
Try harder or how about actually making comments about games you have watched instead of making decisions sole on stats.
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Re: Dennis Rodman on the 2nd three-peat Bulls was so overrated
Rodman energy, hustle plays, defense and rebounding really helped the Bulls into wins. He seemed like their most important player at times due to them not converting on the offense at times. I don't think he was overrated.
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Re: Dennis Rodman on the 2nd three-peat Bulls was so overrated
Is there really an idiot comparing Gasol to Rodman.. Really?
Rodman was the best rebounder of all time.. He's also one of the best defender of all time top 5 at worst.. He anchored the bulls defense better than any center in the league that time.. The only player who cant stop Prime Shaq literally.. And this idiot dare to compare him to Gasol, the softest pf of all time that played no defense at all.. Even you're a moron, please show some respect for Rodman dude..
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Re: Dennis Rodman on the 2nd three-peat Bulls was so overrated
[QUOTE=G-train]They dont win a title any season in second three peat without him.[/QUOTE]
This :applause:
Jordan did not do it alone, and neither did Kobe or Lebron. Sheesh. Team defense >>>>
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Re: Dennis Rodman on the 2nd three-peat Bulls was so overrated
If Dennis Rodman of the 2nd three-peat Bulls was playing in the NBA right now today he'd be the best defensive player in the League, he'd be winning the NBA rebounding titles, and if he was on [I]any[/I] kind of contender he'd be headed at least to the Conference Finals. Rodman had indescribable impact.
His defense was otherworldly at times. He ain't the best rebounder of all time like a lot of people claim, but he is right up there at the top.
This thread is just wrong on every level. The idea that Pau Gasol has more impact on a team than Dennis Rodman is nutty. Rodman just ate opposing teams at times. Using stats to talk about Dennis Rodman is like using stats to talk about Bill Russell or Robert Parish.
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Re: Dennis Rodman on the 2nd three-peat Bulls was so overrated
Basic per-game stats used as the primary argument?? Flawless. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
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Re: Dennis Rodman on the 2nd three-peat Bulls was so overrated
[QUOTE=Derivative]Dennis Rodman was so overrated to have been called one of the "Big 3" of the 2nd three-peat bulls, this is what Rodman averaged in 1996, 1997, and 1998 playoffs:
1996:
7.5ppg, 13.7rpg, 2.1apg, 48.5%FG
1997:
4.2ppg, 8.4rpg, 1.4apg, 37.0%FG
1998:
4.9ppg, 11.8rpg, 2.0apg, 37.1%FG
And here is what Pau Gasol averaged in the 2008, 2009, and 2010 playoffs:
2008:
16.9ppg, 9.3rpg, 4apg, 53%FG
2009:
18.3rpg, 10.8rpg, 2.5apg, 58%FG
2010:
19.6ppg, 11.1rpg, 3.5apg, 53.9%FG
The second three-peat Bulls has the WEAKEST frontcourt in the history of NBA out of all championship teams, and it's amazing how they could of threepeated against opponents such as Shaquille O'Neal, Shawn Kemp, Karl Malone, Patrick Ewing, Alonzo Mourning[/QUOTE]
LIke others have mentioned, what he brought can't be measured with stats.
Having said that
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Re: Dennis Rodman on the 2nd three-peat Bulls was so overrated
dude wasnt an all-star but he had so much intangibles that didnt make the boxscore besides his rebounds. defense, lack of mental errors, being a pest to the opposing team's frontcourt, deflections, effort, and being an oddball kept most of his teammates on their toes. i alway sremember that story that phil sent rodman to atlantic city and dragged kerr and buechler with them and made the team much better chemistry wise.
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Re: Dennis Rodman on the 2nd three-peat Bulls was so overrated
[QUOTE=andgar923] but one can even argue that he was a glorified role player (see Haslem)[/QUOTE]
Another gem from andgar :bowdown:
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Re: Dennis Rodman on the 2nd three-peat Bulls was so overrated
[QUOTE=andgar923]LIke others have mentioned, what he brought can't be measured with stats.
Having said that
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Re: Dennis Rodman on the 2nd three-peat Bulls was so overrated
Except you forgot to mention that Rodman is the all time greatest in something that cannot be measured by stats: on-ball defense. That 2nd 3-peat happened, in large part, due to how well Rodman could lock down ANY player on the floor. Anyone from the bigger centers to Stockton and Malone to younger guys like Hill (hard to call him "younger" considering how old he is now...). He could guard all five positions better than anyone in the league.
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Re: Dennis Rodman on the 2nd three-peat Bulls was so overrated
[QUOTE=La Frescobaldi]LOL.
When Haslem gets DPOY or a rebounding title compare those guys.
No wait. Just when Haslem gets an All-Star team. A 2nd string NBA Defensive Team. Oh wait.[/QUOTE]
I didn't say he was, re-read.
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Re: Dennis Rodman on the 2nd three-peat Bulls was so overrated
[QUOTE=Apocalyptic0n3]Except you forgot to mention that Rodman is the all time greatest in something that cannot be measured by stats: on-ball defense. That 2nd 3-peat happened, in large part, due to how [B]well Rodman could lock down ANY player on the floor[/B]. Anyone from the bigger centers to Stockton and Malone to younger guys like Hill (hard to call him "younger" considering how old he is now...). He could guard all five positions better than anyone in the league.[/QUOTE]
He sure as f*ck didn't lock down any of the bigs he faced during their title runs.
He did a respectable job on them, but nowhere near LOCK down.
He did do a great job in throwing them off their game with his mental games tho.
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Re: Dennis Rodman on the 2nd three-peat Bulls was so overrated
[QUOTE=andgar923]I didn't say he was, re-read.[/QUOTE]
""""It will sound very harsh for some reading, but one can even argue that he was a glorified role player (see Haslem)"""""
that sounds very harsh for anybody that saw Dennis Rodman play basketball.
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Re: Dennis Rodman on the 2nd three-peat Bulls was so overrated
[QUOTE=La Frescobaldi]""""It will sound very harsh for some reading, but one can even argue that he was a glorified role player (see Haslem)"""""
that sounds very harsh for anybody that saw Dennis Rodman play basketball.[/QUOTE]
"[B][COLOR="Red"]but one can even argue[/COLOR][/B]"
I never stated that he was like Haslem, but one can certainly make an argument that he was a glorified role player similar to Haslem. A player that has one role which is to be tough defensively and rebound. Although even Haslem had to be an option offensively.
Rodman's sole focus was to rebound, that's what he did. If they ran plays for him he'd lose position and possibly use up some energy which will result in a decline in his boards.
We are also talking about an older Rodman and NOT the defensive player of the year version.
But as I mentioned, it sounds harsh but not my intention to diminish him as much as it may appear. Simply something to think about.
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Re: Dennis Rodman on the 2nd three-peat Bulls was so overrated
[QUOTE=Derivative]Dennis Rodman was so overrated to have been called one of the "Big 3" of the 2nd three-peat bulls, this is what Rodman averaged in 1996, 1997, and 1998 playoffs:
1996:
7.5ppg, 13.7rpg, 2.1apg, 48.5%FG
1997:
4.2ppg, 8.4rpg, 1.4apg, 37.0%FG
1998:
4.9ppg, 11.8rpg, 2.0apg, 37.1%FG
And here is what Pau Gasol averaged in the 2008, 2009, and 2010 playoffs:
2008:
16.9ppg, 9.3rpg, 4apg, 53%FG
2009:
18.3rpg, 10.8rpg, 2.5apg, 58%FG
2010:
19.6ppg, 11.1rpg, 3.5apg, 53.9%FG
The second three-peat Bulls has the WEAKEST frontcourt in the history of NBA out of all championship teams, and it's amazing how they could of threepeated against opponents such as Shaquille O'Neal, Shawn Kemp, Karl Malone, Patrick Ewing, Alonzo Mourning[/QUOTE]That's what the Lebrontards says to put lebron on Mj's level.
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Re: Dennis Rodman on the 2nd three-peat Bulls was so overrated
Many people were saying that Rodman should have been the MVP of the '96 Finals. Also his presence (combined with Grant's injury) was the major difference in the outcome of the Bulls- Magic playoff series between '95 and '96.
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Re: Dennis Rodman on the 2nd three-peat Bulls was so overrated
Rodman is one of those players for whom his stats just don't tell the whole story. If I already have Jordan/Pippen, I'll take Rodman over Gasol every time.
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Re: Dennis Rodman on the 2nd three-peat Bulls was so overrated
[QUOTE=Yao Ming's Foot]The difference of course was that Rodman put up those rebounding numbers in 32 minutes a game to Gasol's 40 and [B]was the anchor to the Bulls #1, #3 and #4 ranked defense. :facepalm[/B][/QUOTE]
Rodman was at best the 3rd best defender on that team, arguably 4th. No single player was the defensive anchor of that team.
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Re: Dennis Rodman on the 2nd three-peat Bulls was so overrated
[QUOTE=La Frescobaldi]If Dennis Rodman of the 2nd three-peat Bulls was playing in the NBA right now today he'd be the best defensive player in the League, he'd be winning the NBA rebounding titles, and if he was on [I]any[/I] kind of contender he'd be headed at least to the Conference Finals. Rodman had indescribable impact.
His defense was otherworldly at times. He ain't the best rebounder of all time like a lot of people claim, but he is right up there at the top.
This thread is just wrong on every level. The idea that Pau Gasol has more impact on a team than Dennis Rodman is nutty. Rodman just ate opposing teams at times. Using stats to talk about Dennis Rodman is like using stats to talk about Bill Russell or Robert Parish.[/QUOTE]
I agree with most of what you've said here, but 96-98' Rodman was not the defender that Dwight Howard is, not even close. Rodman's defense had fallen off substantially by the time he joined the Bulls.
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Re: Dennis Rodman on the 2nd three-peat Bulls was so overrated
[QUOTE=DatAsh]Rodman is one of those players for whom his stats just don't tell the whole story. If I already have Jordan/Pippen, [B]I'll take Rodman over Gasol every time.[/B][/QUOTE]
Agreed:cheers:
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Re: Dennis Rodman on the 2nd three-peat Bulls was so overrated
[QUOTE=DatAsh]Rodman was at best the 3rd best defender on that team, arguably 4th. No single player was the defensive anchor of that team.[/QUOTE]
And it must be some strange coincidence that Rodman had the lowest individual defensive rating on the team for those years on the Bulls as well. :facepalm
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Re: Dennis Rodman on the 2nd three-peat Bulls was so overrated
[QUOTE=Yao Ming's Foot]And it must be some strange coincidence that Rodman had the lowest individual defensive rating on the team for those years on the Bulls as well. :facepalm[/QUOTE]
individual defensive ratings are calculated from box score numbers and are inherently useless (see Boozer)
they undersell great perimeter defenders (Bowen, Dumars, Kobe, etc.)
team defensive ratings are quite useful, but not for this discussion
I think Rodman was the 3rd best defender (after Pippen, Jordan), but the most important since he was able to slow down/shut down dominant bigs (pretty much all he could do at that point his career)
without Rodman the threepeat doesn't happen (not going to speculate as to how many those Bulls win), but he was certainly not the defensive anchor (Worm was an excellent man defender, though not an all-time great help/team defender or paint protector)...that honor goes to Pippen IMO