Re: Kobe Bryant has the 3rd leading PPG all time as a #1 option
[QUOTE=kennethgriffin]allow me to re introduce myself my name is OH
:hammertime:
total free throw attempts is invalid since 1 free throw does not equal 1 shot
2 free throws equal 1 shot
like my equation in the shaq vs anderson total shots. i took total free throws per game and devided by 2. then added to total fga's
in 2001
kobe 8.2 divided by 2 = 4.1
22.2 + 4.1 = 26.3
shaq 13.1 divided by 2 = 6.5
19.2 + 6.5 = 25.7
---------------------------------
in 2002
kobe 7.4 divided by 2 = 3.7
20 + 3.7 = 23.7
shaq 10.7 divided by 2 = 5.3
18.3 + 5.3 = 23.6
:djparty[/QUOTE]
That doesn't take into account 3-point plays, which Shaq got a lot of.
So you're half-changing him a lot of attempts when you divide by 2.
Re: Kobe Bryant has the 3rd leading PPG all time as a #1 option
[QUOTE=HardwoodLegend]That doesn't take into account 3-point plays, which Shaq got a lot of.
So you're half-changing him a lot of attempts when you divide by 2.[/QUOTE]
That would make FTs even less important since Shaq was then getting an FG attempt and an FT attempt on one possesion. Meaning he used even less possessions.
Re: Kobe Bryant has the 3rd leading PPG all time as a #1 option
[QUOTE=HardwoodLegend]That doesn't take into account 3-point plays, which Shaq got a lot of.
So you're half-changing him a lot of attempts when you divide by 2.[/QUOTE]
:facepalm
are you insane?
if anything that makes shaqs overall adjusted fga's go down. not up
since you'd have to combine 1-2 of shaqs free throw attempts per game with 1-2 of shaqs actual fga's
Re: Kobe Bryant has the 3rd leading PPG all time as a #1 option
[QUOTE=tpols]That would make FTs even less important since Shaq was then getting an FG attempt and an FT attempt on one possesion. Meaning he used even less possessions.[/QUOTE]
True.
It's a silly criteria anyway. Shaq was still the #1 option for longer than kenneth is giving him credit for. A lot of Kobe's attempts are ill-advised shots that he jacked up to disrupt the intended flow of the offense.
Re: Kobe Bryant has the 3rd leading PPG all time as a #1 option
[QUOTE=HardwoodLegend]True.
It's a silly criteria anyway. Shaq was still the #1 option for longer than kenneth is giving him credit for. A lot of Kobe's attempts are ill-advised shots that he jacked up to disrupt the intended flow of the offense.[/QUOTE]
yup.. IDK why he doesnt use 05 to now since the ppg is higher.
Or just retitle it '3rd highest prime ppg'
Re: Kobe Bryant has the 3rd leading PPG all time as a #1 option
[QUOTE=tpols]yup.. IDK why he doesnt use 05 to now since the ppg is higher.
Or just retitle it '3rd highest prime ppg'[/QUOTE]
I'd throw in 2003-04 because that's when Kobe's impatience was at its all-time high and he shot the Lakers out of a championship in the Finals.
That puts him at 28.2 PPG.
And, I'd take out LeBron's rookie season, because he was still learning the ropes and expected to play 2nd fiddle to Ricky Davis.
That puts LeBron at 28.3 PPG.
Kobe is 4th.
Re: Kobe Bryant has the 3rd leading PPG all time as a #1 option
Also .. Oscar Robertson 29.6ppg in seasons leading his team in FGA. And I haven't done the math but I'm willing to bet Elgin Baylor is higher than Kobe too.
Re: Kobe Bryant has the 3rd leading PPG all time as a #1 option
[QUOTE=HardwoodLegend]True.
It's a silly criteria anyway. Shaq was still the #1 option for longer than kenneth is giving him credit for. A lot of Kobe's attempts are ill-advised shots that he jacked up to disrupt the intended flow of the offense.[/QUOTE]
kobe was verry under control with his shot attempts pre 2003
was much more within the offense
because before 2003 he wasnt fully confident in his 3 point shot
so.... wrong again
kobe was the legit 1st option in 2001 and 2002.
mainly because he brought the ball up the court and made himself the 1st option ( obviously )
i'm sure if they didnt have kobe as the main ball handler/play maker.. maybe shaq would have got more shots
but the fact is. kobe was the 1st option whether people like it or not
it also has allot to do with hackashaq and late games being close. kobe having to take over
i'm sure shaq was on average the #1 option for the 1st half of games. kobe was the clear 1st option in 2nd halfs... and it averaged out to more for kobe since he didnt have to take quarters off to avoid shooting ft's
Re: Kobe Bryant has the 3rd leading PPG all time as a #1 option
The first option is the person the other team game plans around (or thinks, **** it, we can stop him so we'll try to limit the other guys). Usually coincides with who plays better as well.
Re: Kobe Bryant has the 3rd leading PPG all time as a #1 option
[QUOTE=Simple Jack]The first option is the person the other team game plans around (or thinks, **** it, we can stop him so we'll try to limit the other guys). Usually coincides with who plays better as well.[/QUOTE]
so steve nash was the 1st option on those phoenix teams?
the game plan was to stop him.
:lol
man just give up
everyone give up
Re: Kobe Bryant has the 3rd leading PPG all time as a #1 option
[QUOTE]I'd throw in 2003-04 because that's when Kobe's impatience was at its all-time high and he shot the Lakers out of a championship in the Finals.
[/QUOTE]
Yeah, it was all Kobe's fault. The rest of the team outside of Shaq shooting 33%, Malone injured, Shaq's lazy play defensively and on the boards, Payton's atrocious play and having a weak bench had nothing to do with it. It's all Kobe's fault. Yup, he shot the Lakers out of a championship, that's why the biggest blow-out loss came in the game where he only had 13 shots, right?
What a moron. :oldlol:
Don't remake your own history by looking up some box scores. Anyone can do that.
Lakers assistant coach Tex Winter: "Shaq defeated himself against Detroit. He played way too passively. He had one big game ... He's always interested in being a scorer, but he hasn't had nearly enough concentration on defense and rebounding."
Now nobody would claim Kobe had a good, or even respectable series for a player of his caliber. His shot selection in particular was terrible (but at least he played good defense in that series) But it wasn't only that, Tex Winter criticized Shaq's play in that series for being lazy on defense and the glass, and not establishing position in the paint... and Shaq only had the one great game that series.
Shaq wasn't getting in position to get the ball. (when he did he was able to score though). But even if you look at the game where Kobe wasn't looking to score, Shaq still couldn't get off. That's why Phil made the comment about wasting Shaq's great game cause he knew Shaq couldn't bring that level of energy every game. Karl Malone was hurt. Gary Payton was a bad fit and even criticized the triangle offense that year. And the Lakers really had no one else to take those shots so of course it was left to Kobe to gun, it wasn't him all just forcing up bad shots.
The Lakers own coaches came out saying how Shaq wasn't working for position and wasn't working to get the ball. You can make the judgment on if that was just Shaq pouting cause he wasn't getting the ball enough or you can credit Detroit's defense. Shaq had some great offensive games but was slow defensively coming off the pick and Rip Hamilton and Chauncy got to the rim at will. Payton averaged 4 ppg on 32% shooting in that series and looked slow defensively as Billups torched him for 21 ppg on 51% shooting and 47% on 3s. Malone was limping around that whole series. He couldn't contribute due to his injury and was a non-factor. Neither played at any notable level that series. To completely blame Kobe for losing is absolutely ridiculous considering the level they were actually at during that series. Malone due to being a 40/41 year old playing through an injury, and Payton was just embarrassingly incompetent.
Re: Kobe Bryant has the 3rd leading PPG all time as a #1 option
[QUOTE=kennethgriffin]so steve nash was the 1st option on those phoenix teams?
the game plan was to stop him.
:lol
man just give up
everyone give up[/QUOTE]
Naw bro. You gotta give up.
Kobe is 4th behind LeBron's 28.5 (I took out 2010-11 since LeBron and Wade struggled to see who was #1 that season).
Re: Kobe Bryant has the 3rd leading PPG all time as a #1 option
When it comes right down to it I'd rather have Robert Horry on my team. He makes the shot when it matters. And more rings.
Re: Kobe Bryant has the 3rd leading PPG all time as a #1 option
[QUOTE=Ne 1]Yeah, it was all Kobe's fault. The rest of the team outside of Shaq shooting 33%, Malone injured, Shaq's lazy play defensively and on the boards, Payton's atrocious play and having a weak bench had nothing to do with it. It's all Kobe's fault. Yup, he shot the Lakers out of a championship, that's why the biggest blow-out loss came in the game where he only had 13 shots, right?
What a moron. :oldlol:
Don't remake your own history by looking up some box scores. Anyone can do that.
Lakers assistant coach Tex Winter: "Shaq defeated himself against Detroit. He played way too passively. He had one big game ... He's always interested in being a scorer, but he hasn't had nearly enough concentration on defense and rebounding."
Now nobody would claim Kobe had a good, or even respectable series for a player of his caliber. His shot selection in particular was terrible (but at least he played good defense in that series) But it wasn't only that, Tex Winter criticized Shaq's play in that series for being lazy on defense and the glass, and not establishing position in the paint... and Shaq only had the one great game that series.
Shaq wasn't getting in position to get the ball. (when he did he was able to score though). But even if you look at the game where Kobe wasn't looking to score, Shaq still couldn't get off. That's why Phil made the comment about wasting Shaq's great game cause he knew Shaq couldn't bring that level of energy every game. Karl Malone was hurt. Gary Payton was a bad fit and even criticized the triangle offense that year. And the Lakers really had no one else to take those shots so of course it was left to Kobe to gun, it wasn't him all just forcing up bad shots.
The Lakers own coaches came out saying how Shaq wasn't working for position and wasn't working to get the ball. You can make the judgment on if that was just Shaq pouting cause he wasn't getting the ball enough or you can credit Detroit's defense. Shaq had some great offensive games but was slow defensively coming off the pick and Rip Hamilton and Chauncy got to the rim at will. Payton averaged 4 ppg on 32% shooting in that series and looked slow defensively as Billups torched him for 21 ppg on 51% shooting and 47% on 3s. Malone was limping around that whole series. He couldn't contribute due to his injury and was a non-factor. Neither played at any notable level that series. To completely blame Kobe for losing is absolutely ridiculous considering the level they were actually at during that series. Malone due to being a 40/41 year old playing through an injury, and Payton was just embarrassingly incompetent.[/QUOTE]
Ya boy shot them out of the series as he desperately gunned for the Finals MVP.
Stop.
Re: Kobe Bryant has the 3rd leading PPG all time as a #1 option
[QUOTE=kennethgriffin]so steve nash was the 1st option on those phoenix teams?
the game plan was to stop him.
:lol
man just give up
everyone give up[/QUOTE]
It wasn't always clear with that team. Wasn't as if they were throwing doubles at Nash to take him out of the game. Teams weren't watching tape, thinking about tailoring their defense around stopping Steve Nash. Plenty of times they would try to limit Amare or Marion (earlier). Hard to focus on one player when you had 5 guys who all spread the floor and could score prolifically.
It was clear with the Lakers who opposing defenses were trying to limit.