I'd say he is close if he isn't. Maybe 11, but personally i'd put him at about 10.
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I'd say he is close if he isn't. Maybe 11, but personally i'd put him at about 10.
Impossible to rate now. Pretty hard to rate a player historically until they are pretty close to the end. Shaq and duncan can first really be fairly discussed - historically - now. A little early for Duncan.
That being said -- kobe's fans have earned this day. So, for today, he is soo clearly and obviously TOP 10 EVER!!!
i would wait until his career is over to start comparing.
[QUOTE=Mor'Fiyah]But forum posters have all the answers right?! LOL ... based on what criteria? I think its fair to say that Magic Johnson knows a little more than you guys ever will.[/QUOTE]
Magic is a grade A homer. Lets flip the script for a sec. Imagine if U will Cavs vs Magic were a finals matchup and Lebron played the way he did and put up the numbers that he did now imagine if u will Lebron had Kobe's cast and they won series..Media would be talking about Lebron's individual performance as one of the greatest ever since the team won. Kobe had a very good finals, Lebron just did everything a little better against Magic.
IF Lakers win the next 4 chips. i.e 5 in a row, will Kobe be viewed as the GOAT?
[QUOTE=tmnt mask]i would wait until his career is over to start comparing.[/QUOTE]
Not really, if your All time status, then your All time status, no if and or butts about it!
I might put at him No. 10. But I don't see how he could end up in the top 8. He'd need at least 2 more titles/Finals MVPs.
[url]http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/fp/flashPollResultsState?pollId=72963[/url]
[QUOTE=1987_Lakers][url]http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/fp/flashPollResultsState?pollId=72963[/url][/QUOTE]
Top 5 ? :hammerhead: :hammerhead: :hammerhead:
[QUOTE=Mikaiel]Top 5 ? :hammerhead: :hammerhead: :hammerhead:[/QUOTE]Well at least it is not winning but it has way too many votes. I have kobe top 10 but can see the arguement for 10-15.
[QUOTE=Kingwillball]Magic is a grade A homer. Lets flip the script for a sec. Imagine if U will Cavs vs Magic were a finals matchup and Lebron played the way he did and put up the numbers that he did now imagine if u will Lebron had Kobe's cast and they won series..Media would be talking about Lebron's individual performance as one of the greatest ever since the team won. Kobe had a very good finals, Lebron just did everything a little better against Magic.[/QUOTE]
So Magic is a homer. Ok fine. What about the three other analysts?
And lets not throw too many hypotheticals out here. But, had Lebron beat the Magic in the finals instead of Kobe the media would be talking about how incredible a player Lebron is at such a young age (and they would be right), how he is arguably the best player in the game today (presumably because he beat Kobe to get there...), and how he legitimately has a chance to be the one of the greatest ever if not the greatest ever (and they would be right). Individual-wise... sure Lebron dominated the Magic statistically, but unless he actually beats them, it pretty much looks like the Magic decided to force Lebron to beat them by himself and he couldn't. They could not use the same strategy with Kobe and they said as much. His teammates were just too good. Often thats the difference between how you are percieved from one season to the next.
List is agreeable. Gj Kobe winning the championship. With some help from fisher....
for you RESEARCH GURUS....
I would be curious to know how many players in NBA history have ALL of the following:
4 rings
1 MVP
1 Finals MVP
10 time All-Star (or however many Kobe has now)
10 time All-Defense (or however many Kobe has now).
Russell, MJ, Kareem, who else? Cousy? West? Shaq? TD?
[QUOTE=Carbine]This is just stupid.
Why would one more ring let by Duncan leave no doubt for you? Four isn't enough? Do you know how many players have led FOUR or more championship teams as the undisputed best player on their team?
Russell, Jordan....the list ends there.
Why does Duncan have to win another one as the best player? He's proven enough as far as winning goes. Best winning percentage out of all pro sport teams since he's entered the league, has the most rings as the best player since joining the league, etc.
As for Kobe, I can see this reasoning... the man has one championship as the leader, but he also has a three-peat under his belt where he was the clearly the two guy, and in some cases the 1.b to Shaq' 1.a....so he doesn't really have much to prove either, though one more can certainly solidify himself, and if he goes on a mini-dynaasty with these Lakers, he'll be in Magic & Bird territory as far as legacy goes.[/QUOTE]
What this guy said.:applause:
[QUOTE=bleedinpurpleTwo]for you RESEARCH GURUS....
I would be curious to know how many players in NBA history have ALL of the following:
4 rings
1 MVP
1 Finals MVP
10 time All-Star (or however many Kobe has now)
10 time All-Defense (or however many Kobe has now).
Russell, MJ, Kareem, who else? Cousy? West? Shaq? TD?[/QUOTE]
Kobe has 9 all-D teams. So the only ones in his category are MJ, Kareem, and Duncan. Pretty good company.