The NBA's top 4 scorers with 0:24 or less at the end of the game

[QUOTE=LongLiveTheKing]It's their entire career how is that limited?[/QUOTE]
"Career" is not a sample size. How many attempts for each of them?

This whole thread is near "full-retard" status anyway. The arbitrary end point of "last 24" as if seconds 25 and up didn't matter. The lack of sample sizes. How about free throws attempted/made?

I thought the majority of lebrons points against spurs in 07 were in 4th...
Am I wrong or is deuce at it again?

[QUOTE=RRR3]I thought the majority of lebrons points against in 07 were in 4th...
Am I wrong or is deuce at it again?[/QUOTE]
Yeah they were. It was the opposite in 07 - played bad in first 3, good in 4th.

[QUOTE=Deuce Bigalow]Yeah they were. It was the opposite in 07 - played bad in first 3, good in 4th.[/QUOTE]

Then you should have said so in the first place instead of making stuff up. :no:

[QUOTE=Deuce Bigalow]Bean has played a below 100 DRtg defense in the Finals 4 times. When MJ played a below 100 DRtg team in the playoffs he never shot over .401 FG%.


[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=289060[/url][/QUOTE]

Again... what does any of this have to do with the topic at hand. And :oldlol:
at using DRTG like that proves anything. Why not win shares or some other random 'advanced stat'?

According to DRTG, Gar Heard is the greatest defensive player in NBA history and Manu Ginobli is a better defender than Scottie Pippen.

[url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/def_rtg_career.html[/url]

[url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/def_rtg_active.html[/url]

Pop Quiz... DRTG is the end-all-be-all, right? Then do you agree that the '73-'74 Pistons (supposedly a 'weak' defensive era) are superior defensively to the '03-'04 Pistons? DRTG tells me not only is that true, but it looks like the '73-'74 season might've been the greatest defensive season in NBA history. Just look at the ratings from that season.

[IMG]http://cdn2.sbnation.com/imported_assets/557603/cmon_son.jpg[/IMG]

:oldlol:

[QUOTE=DonDadda59]Again... what does any of this have to do with the topic at hand. And :oldlol:
at using DRTG like that proves anything. Why not win shares or some other random 'advanced stat'?

According to DRTG, Gar Heard is the greatest defensive player in NBA history and Manu Ginobli is a better defender than Scottie Pippen.

[url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/def_rtg_career.html[/url]

[url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/def_rtg_active.html[/url]

Pop Quiz... DRTG is the end-all-be-all, right? Then do you agree that the '73-'74 Pistons (supposedly a 'weak' defensive era) are superior defensively to the '03-'04 Pistons? DRTG tells me not only is that true, but it looks like the '73-'74 season might've been the greatest defensive season in NBA history. Just look at the ratings from that season.

[IMG]http://cdn2.sbnation.com/imported_assets/557603/cmon_son.jpg[/IMG]

:oldlol:[/QUOTE]
DRtg is Points per 100 possessions, what is wrong? Don't see anything wrong with it. It's no coincidence that MJ's two worst efficienct series are vs the best defenses he faced. And it has to do with what you posted because you just mentioned his finals performances lol

[QUOTE=DonDadda59]Again... what does any of this have to do with the topic at hand. And :oldlol:
at using DRTG like that proves anything. Why not win shares or some other random 'advanced stat'?[/QUOTE]

Win shares/PER and any derivatives are box score based, and are inherently flawed by misrepresenting defensive contributions. They also generally have fairly low r^2 values, aren't as consistent as you'd like, and don't tell you all that much in general.

DRtg is just how many points per adjusted 100 possessions your defense allows (team DRtg mind you; individual DRtg and ORtg are similarly flawed because they're computed using box score stats).

[QUOTE=Deuce Bigalow]DRtg is Points per 100 possessions, what is wrong? Don't see anything wrong with it. It's no coincidence that MJ's two worst efficienct series are vs the best defenses he faced. And it has to do with what you posted because you just mentioned his finals performances lol[/QUOTE]

My dude. Answer my damn question- DRTG says that the '73-'74 Detroit Pistons>'03-'04 Detroit Pistons defensively. But if the teenagers here are to be believed, everything before c. the Lakers 3-peat was a weak defensive era... so why does DRTG tell me that the early-mid 70s was by far the greatest defensive era in NBA history? :confusedshrug:

Here, go ahead and take a look at some team history/advanced stats. Look at that season, then come back here and tell how much of a failure your excuse-making post was :oldlol:

[url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/[/url]

[QUOTE=DonDadda59]My dude. Answer my damn question- DRTG says that the '73-'74 Detroit Pistons>'03-'04 Detroit Pistons defensively. But if the teenagers here are to be believed, everything before c. the Lakers 3-peat was a weak defensive era... so why does DRTG tell me that the early-mid 70s was by far the greatest defensive era in NBA history? :confusedshrug:

Here, go ahead and take a look at some team history/advanced stats. Look at that season, then come back here and tell how much of a failure your excuse-making post was :oldlol:

[url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/[/url][/QUOTE]

The 03-04 Pistons really picked up after they acquired Sheed. Their DRtg after that point (including the playoffs) was exceptional (I think it might be the lowest ever).

Looking at raw DRtg can sometimes be deceiving though. I put together a spreadsheet with z-scores (# of standard deviations from mean, more negative numbers are better for DRtg since you want it to be lower) for ORtg/DRtg/Pace a few months ago (I'm on my phone right now so I can't check the link, but I think my man Deuce has it). You'll reach similar conclusions either way, but these numbers probably mesh better with common perceptions (Dean Oliver used a similar metric in his book 'Basketball On Paper').

EDIT: Again though, individual DRtg is useless since it's just a formula from box score stats. Team DRtg is much more robust and actually measures what it claims to, more or less.

[QUOTE=DonDadda59]My dude. Answer my damn question- DRTG says that the '73-'74 Detroit Pistons>'03-'04 Detroit Pistons defensively. But if the teenagers here are to be believed, everything before c. the Lakers 3-peat was a weak defensive era... so why does DRTG tell me that the early-mid 70s was by far the greatest defensive era in NBA history? :confusedshrug:

Here, go ahead and take a look at some team history/advanced stats. Look at that season, then come back here and tell how much of a failure your excuse-making post was :oldlol:

[url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/[/url][/QUOTE]
Do I really need to tell you why? It was the 70s. Is there anything more that needs to be said? From everything that I've heard about that decade was that it was the worst era of basketball.

[QUOTE=fpliii]Team DRtg is much more robust and actually measures what it claims to, more or less.[/QUOTE]

'73-'74 = Greatest defensive season in NBA history. '73-'74 Chicago Bulls/Milwaukee Bucks = GOAT defensive team :applause:

1. Chicago Bulls- 93.6
2. Milwaukee Bucks- 93.6
3. Detroit Pistons- 93.8
4. Capital Bullets- 94.2
5. New York Knicks- 94.7
6. Boston Celtics- 95.1
7. Los Angeles Lakers- 96.6
8. Golden State Warriors- 98.4
9. Atlanta Hawks- 99
10. Philadelphia 76ers- 99

Wouldst thou not agree? :confusedshrug:

This has become such a trivial debate.

These scenarios require so much context. I would suggest using film tape and play by plays's for better guage than the arbitrary stats at hand.

[QUOTE=Deuce Bigalow]Do I really need to tell you why? It was the 70s. Is there anything more that needs to be said? From everything that I've heard about that decade was that it was the worst era of basketball.[/QUOTE]

You need to at least try to be consistent. You randomly and inexplicably posted about Jordan/Kobe DRTG teams in the playoffs (as if anyone with sense thinks the '04 Timberwolves were a better defensive squad than teams Jordan faced in the 90s :oldlol: ) for some odd reason in a thread about clutch stats. Then when I pointed out the fact that the same metric says that the early-mid 70s is by far the greatest defensive era in NBA history, now all of a sudden it holds no merit. You can't have it both ways.

[QUOTE=DonDadda59]You need to at least try to be consistent. You randomly and inexplicably posted about Jordan/Kobe DRTG teams in the playoffs (as if anyone with sense thinks the '04 Timberwolves were a better defensive squad than teams Jordan faced in the 90s :oldlol: ) for some odd reason in a thread about clutch stats. Then when I pointed out the fact that the same metric says that the early-mid 70s is by far the greatest defensive era in NBA history, now all of a sudden it holds no merit. You can't have it both ways.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=DonDadda59]Then he was just doing his best Kobe impersonation :oldlol:

[B][SIZE="7"]Bean has had plenty of shitty finals performances[/SIZE][/B], and he's been abysmal in the clutch in the past few seasons. How could anyone forget [URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5yHsipowNw"]THIS[/URL]?

I don't think I've ever seen a player single-handedly blow a lead in a significant game like that. The #s don't lie- as a 'clutch' player, Kobe is [I]grossly[/I] overrated.[/QUOTE]
You brought it up. And what do you not understand about DRtg and the 70's decade? There's a reason why the NBA Finals was on tape delay until the 80's.

[QUOTE=DonDadda59]'73-'74 = Greatest defensive season in NBA history. '73-'74 Chicago Bulls/Milwaukee Bucks = GOAT defensive team :applause:

1. Chicago Bulls- 93.6
2. Milwaukee Bucks- 93.6
3. Detroit Pistons- 93.8
4. Capital Bullets- 94.2
5. New York Knicks- 94.7
6. Boston Celtics- 95.1
7. Los Angeles Lakers- 96.6
8. Golden State Warriors- 98.4
9. Atlanta Hawks- 99
10. Philadelphia 76ers- 99

Wouldst thou not agree? :confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]

It's not perfect since the defensive climate changes from year-to-year. I just got in, here's the link:

[url]https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aoy3YD7IdypTdGJZdVI5X0dySzNJWm51NkZ2UU1sSlE#gid=0[/url]

higher z-score is better for offenses, lower is better for defenses (i.e. a big negative score is best), and for paces it just tells you what you'd expect.

Note that since the z-score tells you how many standard deviations you are from the mean, almost every team will fall between -1.0 and +1.0 in every category. The farther you are from the mean, the more exceptionally good (or bad) you are in that regard.