There has never been a more mind****ed ATG player than Kevin Durant

I have to preface this with...

The entire "rings" argument needs to go away. Teams win championships, not players. I want to make that crystal ****ing clear. And so while I disagree with KD's thought processes completely, I also completely understand why he's doing what he's doing and why he's done what he's done.

Anyways...

1) He leaves OKC who was 1 game away from the Finals to join a 73 win team because he is so desperate for validation in the minds of stupid people in the form of a ring.

2) He wins 2 rings with GSW, but then he doesn't get the validation he really wants in a lot of people's minds so he leaves GSW AT LEAST IN PART because he was so desperate for validation in the minds of stupid people.

3) He comes a literal toe's length away from a Finals appearance with the Nets and possible title, and due to a plethora of injuries and Kyrie not taking a vaccine, he does not win with the Nets. GSW wins a title without him, and it pushes him over the edge to demand a trade to a different contender... once again... desperately seeking validation in the minds of stupid people.


I don't think we've ever seen an all time great basketball player, perhaps even athlete, this insecure and this absolutely mind****ed by the media and by the public. I fully expect this trend to continue as the years go on with the pressure of ceaseless social media in your face if you have a smartphone, but... damn.

I really do hope the guy finds peace. You're an ATG, KD. A top 20 player of all time. Nobody anywhere would disagree. Let that be enough bro. Go in peace.

No.

[QUOTE=Shogon;14631783]I have to preface this with...

The entire "rings" argument needs to go away. Teams win championships, not players. I want to make that crystal ****ing clear. And so while I disagree with KD's thought processes completely, I also completely understand why he's doing what he's doing and why he's done what he's done.

[/QUOTE]

Superstars win championships. This had been true for about 90% of the time in league history. You obviously need a team, but you damn well also need a top 5-10 guy to have consistent success in both RS & Playoffs. How many times has a team like the 2004 Pistons won a chip? You NEED that elite guy to put you over the top in the POs, we saw it this year with Boston. They had the most talent or the best all-around team but they didn't have THAT guy while GS did.

[QUOTE]. You NEED that elite guy to put you over the top in the POs[/QUOTE]

Thing is an awful lot of people who get that status get it once they’re already over the top making it something of a self fulfilling prophecy. Once you put any star who does it in that company it’s hard to say guys not in that company can do it. A lot of people are single shots from having led teams to titles or being in much better position to do so. Some of them the missed shots weren’t even by them. Role players have made or missed shots for the nba title at least 4 times off the top of my head. I mean straight up “Goes in you’re the champ” or “Doesn’t go in you lose and they win” shots. Just finals deciding games not talking about earlier rounds for teams that went on to win.

So much has to go right. So many injuries need to not happen. And in the end we still take the guy who won and assign him the elite status as if we don’t watch the train wreck of injuries ruin almost every season.

Its almost always “How many times is your team healthy and sane at the same time” in this era and all to come where guys move around on a whim and are so rich they don’t even need the money so they might just not show up.

Its almost like the lottery. The best teams have a weighted advantage with better odds to be the ball that drops out but which of them does is still damn near at random.

Giannis last year looked like he tore his acl, mvp, pcl, and llcooj all at once vs the Hawks but luckily Trae got hurt as well so they got by and he wasn’t hurt as bad as he seemed to be. So he gets to have 3 40 point finals games one a 50 burger with all the toppings so now he gets to be an all timer forever when “There’s a clear method to beat him so he will never win” was the narrative before(from stupid people…aka…most fans).

Once hes got the ring hes one of those who proved superstars win. Injury 5% worse he isn’t. The “You need one of those guys” is hard to argue. Especially when being considered one of those guys is often predicated on already having proven it.

[QUOTE=Shogon;14631783]

I really do hope the guy finds peace. You're an ATG, KD. A top 20 player of all time. Nobody anywhere would disagree. Let that be enough bro. Go in peace.[/QUOTE]

Serious question... is Durant as good as people say he is?

We get enamoured by the "pretty" and "fluid" player who seems like he doesn't have many weaknesses, etc.

In a lot of ways that might be true about Durant, but he does a lot of stuff poorly on the court that isn't necessarily with the ball in his hands.

Guys like Gervin and Dominique were great scorers with very few weaknesses too...

To be honest, hearing it from the media, they make it sound almost disrespectful if you consider a guy like Curry or Giannis better players than KD. Just because he is KD... I'd take both of them over him in a vacuum.

[QUOTE=plowking;14631809]Serious question... is Durant as good as people say he is?

We get enamoured by the "pretty" and "fluid" player who seems like he doesn't have many weaknesses, etc.

In a lot of ways that might be true about Durant, but he does a lot of stuff poorly on the court that isn't necessarily with the ball in his hands.

Guys like Gervin and Dominique were great scorers with very few weaknesses too...

To be honest, hearing it from the media, they make it sound almost disrespectful if you consider a guy like Curry or Giannis better players than KD. Just because he is KD... I'd take both of them over him in a vacuum.[/QUOTE]

He's a great basketball player, but he doesn't have the intangibles that make him a leader like other all time greats imo.

[QUOTE=plowking;14631809]Serious question... is Durant as good as people say he is?

We get enamoured by the "pretty" and "fluid" player who seems like he doesn't have many weaknesses, etc.

In a lot of ways that might be true about Durant, but he does a lot of stuff poorly on the court that isn't necessarily with the ball in his hands.

Guys like Gervin and Dominique were great scorers with very few weaknesses too...

To be honest, hearing it from the media, they make it sound almost disrespectful if you consider a guy like Curry or Giannis better players than KD. Just because he is KD... I'd take both of them over him in a vacuum.[/QUOTE]

I agree and think this is 100 percent true. When you watch KD play you see this fluid moving 7 footer with a ridiculous wingspan who can score with ease from anywhere on the entire floor. At a first glance you conclude that he has a package of skills and talents no one else has. But under closer examination he’s not really a type of dynamic play maker who makes his teammates better. He is inconsistent on effort defensively and when his shot isn’t falling he can disappear. Then when you get into the leadership and mental toughness side, he is severely lacking those intangibles.

As for OP it’s totally true. Him leaving OKC was weak in the first place. But after he did and started rolling with the Warriors… He could have just said **** you to all the whining haters or simply deleted Twitter. Turn off his phone. Tune out and focus on ball. If he did that, GS could have perhaps been the greatest dynasty in the modern era by a long shot. 20 years from now no one would really care about how stacked or unfair it was. They would just remember the dominance and banners hanging from the rafters. KD’s greatest chance at a truly great legacy was staying with Golden State and stacking as many chips as possible. But he threw it away because some loser trolls on Twitter were talking trash to him. His sensitivity and insecurity are just on another level. It’s pretty unbelievable to be honest.

i'll never justify joining the team that beat you. demanding a trade is also kind of lame but they all do it now.

[QUOTE=plowking;14631809]Serious question... is Durant as good as people say he is?

We get enamoured by the "pretty" and "fluid" player who seems like he doesn't have many weaknesses, etc.

In a lot of ways that might be true about Durant, but he does a lot of stuff poorly on the court that isn't necessarily with the ball in his hands.

Guys like Gervin and Dominique were great scorers with very few weaknesses too...

To be honest, hearing it from the media, they make it sound almost disrespectful if you consider a guy like Curry or Giannis better players than KD. Just because he is KD... I'd take both of them over him in a vacuum.[/QUOTE]


The answer is both yes and no.

He is perhaps the best 1 on 1 player in NBA history, with Hakeem being the only other guy I would put in that discussion if some magical out of the sky 1 on 1 tournament were to take place in terms of who would win the most games against other players. Well... maybe peak Garnett also. So yes, Durant really is that good. He would absolutely smoke Dominique and George.

But at the same time, the NBA is 5 on 5... and team dynamics both on and off the court matter a lot. KD can do it all and he can do most of it at an time great level. He was even a really good defender around his peak.

If that shot was 1 or 2 inches further back against the Bucks, you likely wouldn't even be asking this question.

KD's biggest shortcoming by far is that he is not a leader even in the slightest and I'm not entirely sure what he does on the court is ENOUGH to offset that fact. And while this has nothing to do with basketball ability, it does indeed make a hell of an impact on a team. Aside from the plethora of bad luck and injuries, this is at least in part why Brooklyn didn't work better. Kyrie was the leader and Kyrie is a headcase.

I can't begin to assign true value to leadership impact. I'm not sure it's measurable in ways that we could figure out. I don't know how and I don't think anyone else is smart enough, either. Maybe an advanced AI will eventually be able to.

[QUOTE=plowking;14631809]Serious question... is Durant as good as people say he is?

We get enamoured by the "pretty" and "fluid" player who seems like he doesn't have many weaknesses, etc.

In a lot of ways that might be true about Durant, but he does a lot of stuff poorly on the court that isn't necessarily with the ball in his hands.

Guys like Gervin and Dominique were great scorers with very few weaknesses too...

To be honest, hearing it from the media, they make it sound almost disrespectful if you consider a guy like Curry or Giannis better players than KD. Just because he is KD... I'd take both of them over him in a vacuum.[/QUOTE]

No. I heard Zach Lowe yesterday he’s “at worst” one of the 15 best players ever. He was calling him top 10 a few months ago.

It’s all subjective of course, but I find that absurd given the results of his career. If he didn’t go to the Warriors and he just continued to lose every year like he would have, Lowe would not be calling him top 10.

He's an even bigger beta than Lebron.

Goes to a 73 win team, then after he leaves and can't win with his own created super team he requests a trade with his top 2 preferred destinations being Miami and Phoenix. Both of whom just finished in first place in their respective conferences. LOL

[QUOTE=DMAVS41;14631827]No. I heard Zach Lowe yesterday he’s “at worst” one of the 15 best players ever. He was calling him top 10 a few months ago.

It’s all subjective of course, but I find that absurd given the results of his career. If he didn’t go to the Warriors and he just continued to lose every year like he would have, Lowe would not be calling him top 10.[/QUOTE]

Zach Lowe is retarded.

[QUOTE=plowking;14631809]Serious question... is Durant as good as people say he is?

We get enamoured by the "pretty" and "fluid" player who seems like he doesn't have many weaknesses, etc.

In a lot of ways that might be true about Durant, but he does a lot of stuff poorly on the court that isn't necessarily with the ball in his hands.

Guys like Gervin and Dominique were great scorers with very few weaknesses too...

To be honest, hearing it from the media, they make it sound almost disrespectful if you consider a guy like Curry or Giannis better players than KD. Just because he is KD... I'd take both of them over him in a vacuum.[/QUOTE]

You have one of the lowest IQs I've ever seen. Even bringing up Gervin and Dominique shows you have no real understanding

[QUOTE=warriorfan;14631813]I agree and think this is 100 percent true. When you watch KD play you see this fluid moving 7 footer with a ridiculous wingspan who can score with ease from anywhere on the entire floor. At a first glance you conclude that he has a package of skills and talents no one else has. But under closer examination he’s not really a type of dynamic play maker who makes his teammates better. He is inconsistent on effort defensively and when his shot isn’t falling he can disappear. Then when you get into the leadership and mental toughness side, he is severely lacking those intangibles.

As for OP it’s totally true. Him leaving OKC was weak in the first place. But after he did and started rolling with the Warriors… He could have just said **** you to all the whining haters or simply deleted Twitter. Turn off his phone. Tune out and focus on ball. If he did that, GS could have perhaps been the greatest dynasty in the modern era by a long shot. 20 years from now no one would really care about how stacked or unfair it was. They would just remember the dominance and banners hanging from the rafters. KD’s greatest chance at a truly great legacy was staying with Golden State and stacking as many chips as possible. But he threw it away because some loser trolls on Twitter were talking trash to him. His sensitivity and insecurity are just on another level. It’s pretty unbelievable to be honest.[/QUOTE]

I agree.

KD looked all worldly when he joined a 73 win team. Then all the low IQ basketball takes started becoming mainstream about Curry being a beta cuck to Durant and how Curry was overrated.

Now the tables have turned and we see that Steph took a back seat so Durant could be the maximum player he could in golden state.

Durant is a great player no doubt and would fit in any system. But his leadership abilities are suspect, massively suspect.

[QUOTE=DMAVS41;14631827]No. I heard Zach Lowe yesterday he’s “at worst” one of the 15 best players ever. He was calling him top 10 a few months ago.

It’s all subjective of course, but I find that absurd given the results of his career. If he didn’t go to the Warriors and he just continued to lose every year like he would have, Lowe would not be calling him top 10.[/QUOTE]

One of the lowest IQs on the board.

Aren't you the idiot who brings up net on/off as an argument but say Luka has no help even though the numbers you cite say otherwise?

Durant has carried every team he's ever been on.

People are enamored by narratives and drama, not basketball. You're on of them.

[QUOTE=8Ball;14631838]I agree.

KD looked all worldly when he joined a 73 win team. Then all the low IQ talk about Curry being a beta cuck to Durant and how Curry was overrated.

Now the tables have turned and we see that Steph took a back seat so Durant could be the maximum player he could in golden state. A lot like Wade taking a back seat to LeBron, however Curry is much much better than Wade ever was.[/QUOTE]

Curry didn't choose to do anything

Durant is the much better all around player, so naturally he became the warriors best. This stuff is really easy to understand.

[QUOTE=8Ball;14631838]I agree.

KD looked all worldly when he joined a 73 win team. Then all the low IQ basketball takes started becoming mainstream about Curry being a beta cuck to Durant and how Curry was overrated.

Now the tables have turned and we see that Steph took a back seat so Durant could be the maximum player he could in golden state.

Durant is a great player no doubt and would fit in any system. But his leadership abilities are suspect, massively suspect.[/QUOTE]
Outside of Oubre, everyone looks better on the warriors. Steph has Magic-level elevating. And KD's leadership aren't suspect, he doesn't have any at all. Lebron did about as well of a job with Kyrie compared how Celtics and KD handled the biggest cancer in NBA history. LeLeader has some elevated points looking at it on hindsight. :applause:

[QUOTE=AlternativeAcc.;14631839]One of the lowest IQs on the board.

Aren't you the idiot who brings up net on/off as an argument but say Luka has no help even though the numbers you cite say otherwise?

Durant has carried every team he's ever been on.

People are enamored by narratives and drama, not basketball. You're on of them.[/QUOTE]

Carried to what? Loss after loss while playing with current all-nba players every year?

If you remove the 17 and 18 Warriors seasons… he has the same results as Allen Iverson despite playing with far better help and in a softer era… which helps KD a lot.

Aren’t you the moron claiming the Warriors couldn’t win without Durant?

Take the ****ing L man.

[QUOTE=8Ball;14631838]I agree.

KD looked all worldly when he joined a 73 win team. Then all the low IQ basketball takes started becoming mainstream about Curry being a beta cuck to Durant and how Curry was overrated.

Now the tables have turned and we see that Steph took a back seat so Durant could be the maximum player he could in golden state.

Durant is a great player no doubt and would fit in any system. But his leadership abilities are suspect, massively suspect.[/QUOTE]
But d-wade didn't need six finals just to win his first finals mvp. Although his longevity is underwhelming that there's doubt he could make more than two-straight finals without kong.

[QUOTE=theman93;14631828]He's an even bigger beta than Lebron.

Goes to a 73 win team, then after he leaves and can't win with his own created super team he requests a trade with his top 2 preferred destinations being Miami and Phoenix. Both of whom just finished in first place in their respective conferences. LOL[/QUOTE]

The super team he carried and averaged 36ppg on 63%TS vs the champion bucks, literally carrying worthless and injured Harden

And this year kyrie misses most of the season, Harden gets traded for a guy in a wheelchair, and they make the playoffs only because Durant had an MVP year.


You idiots only know narratives and drama. Know nothing about basketball. I'm here to teach

[QUOTE=DMAVS41;14631844]Carried to what? Loss after loss while playing with current all-nba players every year?

If you remove the 17 and 18 Warriors seasons… he has the same results as Allen Iverson despite playing with far better help and in a softer era… which helps KD a lot.

Aren’t you the moron claiming the Warriors couldn’t win without Durant?

Take the ****ing L man.[/QUOTE]

I'm the idiot who said the warriors would easily win the title this year because they're stacked with talent and chemistry

He lost in OKC playing with the worst ever stat accumulator and the worst spacing in basketball vs. the warriors who at thr time had by far the best. Andre roberson..westbrick...Adams... waiters


Switch curry and Durant in 2016 and who you got?


You know nothing about basketball, only narratives. And you don't think a 60% loss in a year matters :roll:

[QUOTE=AlternativeAcc.;14631849]I'm the idiot who said the warriors would easily win the title this year because they're stacked with talent and chemistry

He lost in OKC playing with the worst ever stat accumulator and the worst spacing in basketball vs. the warriors who at thr time had by far the best. Andre roberson..westbrick...Adams... waiters


Switch curry and Durant in 2016 and who you got?


You know nothing about basketball, only narratives. And you don't think a 60% loss in a year matters :roll:[/QUOTE]

In 16? I’ve got the team with Curry. He’s a better and more impactful player than KD.

You must have forgotten how bad KD was in game 6 with a chance to close it out.

The problem with people like you is that you think the NBA is just a pickup basketball game,,,sorry, but it isn’t and until you learn that… you’ll struggle to accurately value players.

Durant elevated the worst franchise in basketball (OKC) and had them in the finals within 5 years.

Losers on ISH don't understand leadership... that's why they think because of Twitter drama and gossip that KD doesn't have it. They don't even know what it is. Demanding a trade or leaving a team doesn't have anything to do with it. Or else lebron wouldn't be considered a leader on his teams... obviously not the case.

You guys are really stupid

[QUOTE=AlternativeAcc.;14631840]Curry didn't choose to do anything

Durant is the much better all around player, so naturally he became the warriors best. This stuff is really easy to understand.[/QUOTE]

2016 OKC says otherwise.

Durant didn't take over that team because low IQ Westbrook was still running around doing a lot of stupid shit, bad shots, bad passes. They were so talented they almost won it all in 2016.

[QUOTE=AlternativeAcc.;14631858]Durant elevated the worst franchise in basketball (OKC) and had them in the finals within 5 years.

Losers on ISH don't understand leadership... that's why they think because of Twitter drama and gossip that KD doesn't have it. They don't even know what it is. Demanding a trade or leaving a team doesn't have anything to do with it. Or else lebron wouldn't be considered a leader on his teams... obviously not the case.

You guys are really stupid[/QUOTE]

Durant is a great player, in my top 12 all time.


But he lacks playmaking abilities. He can do it, like he did in that sick GOAT game vs Milwaukee in 2021 playoffs.


But he can't do it consistently.

[QUOTE=DMAVS41;14631854]In 16? I’ve got the team with Curry. He’s a better and more impactful player than KD.

You must have forgotten how bad KD was in game 6 with a chance to close it out.

The problem with people like you is that you think the NBA is just a pickup basketball game,,,sorry, but it isn’t and until you learn that… you’ll struggle to accurately value players.[/QUOTE]

Like I said, you're retarded. You've got the team with curry... who scored 22ppg on 40% in the finals and played no defense, no clutch, no playmaking,, and threw his mouthpiece in the crowd like a toddler


You just said you'd take curry despite the massive spacing and talent advantage the warriors had over OKC. But I'm the one thinking it's a pickup game.... yikes. You have no self awareness.

[QUOTE=8Ball;14631859]2016 OKC says otherwise.

Durant didn't take over that team because low IQ Westbrook was still running around doing a lot of stupid shit, bad shots, bad passes. They were so talented they almost won it all in 2016.[/QUOTE]

2016 doesn't say anything

Warriors had by far the best spacing in the league and a much better bench than OKC.

Anybody who knows the game knows OKC had atrocious spacing, and low iq players who couldn't pass.

Durant is still the better all around player than curry and it's not close.

Uh oh. Here comes AutismAcc.

:roll:

Fumin’

[QUOTE=8Ball;14631861]Durant is a great player, in my top 12 all time.


But he lacks playmaking abilities. He can do it, like he did in that sick GOAT game vs Milwaukee in 2021 playoffs.


But he can't do it consistently.[/QUOTE]
But he was also coming off an achilles injury after he missed a whole season since game 5 of the 2019 finals.

I think Durant and Curry near equal.


If I need a point guard though I have to take Curry.


If I already have a good point guard I take Durant.

[QUOTE=AlternativeAcc.;14631862]Like I said, you're retarded. You've got the team with curry... who scored 22ppg on 40% in the finals and played no defense, no clutch, no playmaking,, and threw his mouthpiece in the crowd like a toddler


You just said you'd take curry despite the massive spacing and talent advantage the warriors had over OKC. But I'm the one thinking it's a pickup game.... yikes. You have no self awareness.[/QUOTE]

The lack of awareness comes from calling Westbrook a scrub when he was outplaying Durant in some of the biggest moments / games / series in his career.

I’ll say it again. Without the weakest move in NBA history.,, Durant’s career results are Iverson with more help.

[QUOTE=DMAVS41;14631871]The lack of awareness comes from calling Westbrook a scrub when he was outplaying Durant in some of the biggest moments / games / series in his career.

I’ll say it again. Without the weakest move in NBA history.,, Durant’s career results are Iverson with more help.[/QUOTE]

Klay saved the warriors in game 6 with 41 points. I know you don't remember that because you don't watch games, but yeah

Your arguments always regress to "but westbrick!" ... so you automatically lose.

If you think Durant had more help than Curry because of westbrick it literally proves you have zero understanding of the game. Zero. Like literally none. Keep digging your grave

I never called wb a scrub either. An incredibly low IQ stat padder and anticlutch moron? Yes, but a good player in a vacuum.

Also comparing Durant to Iverson is beyond low IQ.

People have a massive misunderstanding of Durant and his leadership. He's an amazing leader and always has been. It wouldn't be hard to find players clamoring over his leadership and hard work... whereas Iverson was known as a guy who hated practice and was incredibly inefficient and 6ft tall.

But if he ended his career with no rings it's the same as Iverson :oldlol:


Dmavs is so dumb

[QUOTE=AlternativeAcc.;14631875]Klay saved the warriors in game 6 with 41 points. I know you don't remember that because you don't watch games, but yeah

Your arguments always regress to "but westbrick!" ... so you automatically lose.

If you think Durant had more help than Curry because of westbrick it literally proves you have zero understanding of the game. Zero. Like literally none. Keep digging your grave

I never called wb a scrub either. An incredibly low IQ stat padder and anticlutch moron? Yes, but a good player in a vacuum.[/QUOTE]

I think Durant had enough help to prove he’s the caliber of player you are claiming. He hasn’t even been able to produce results on par with a guy like Dirk.

Maybe he will in the future, but time is running out and bailing on yet another franchise to try to get to already elite teams doesn’t inspire a lot of confidence that he’s capable of what you claim.

[QUOTE=AlternativeAcc.;14631884]Also comparing Durant to Iverson is beyond low IQ.

People have a massive misunderstanding of Durant and his leadership. He's an amazing leader and always has been. It wouldn't be hard to find players clamoring over his leadership and hard work... whereas Iverson was known as a guy who hated practice and was incredibly inefficient and 6ft tall.

But if he ended his career with no rings it's the same as Iverson :oldlol:


Dmavs is so dumb[/QUOTE]

I said the results were similar.

Try to keep up.

[QUOTE=DMAVS41;14631885]I think Durant had enough help to prove he’s the caliber of player you are claiming. He hasn’t even been able to produce results on par with a guy like Dirk.

Maybe he will in the future, but time is running out and bailing on yet another franchise to try to get to already elite teams doesn’t inspire a lot of confidence that he’s capable of what you claim.[/QUOTE]
Prove it how? By winning with much less spacing and talent... ok bro

Or should he shit the bed with the 1 seed in the 1st rd while averaging 19ppg like Dirk... or get lucky in 2011 like Dirk who had more help than Durant ever did on OKC :cheers:

But durant had westbrick!!! All nba! He had plenty of help right?!

You don't know the game bro... stop

[QUOTE=DMAVS41;14631890]I said the results were similar.

Try to keep up.[/QUOTE]

They're not remotely similar. So everyone who doesn't have a ring is similar to Iverson?

:facepalm

he's a mental midget

[QUOTE=AlternativeAcc.;14631893]Prove it how? By winning with much less spacing and talent... ok bro

Or should he shit the bed with the 1 seed in the 1st rd while averaging 19ppg like Dirk... or get lucky in 2011 like Dirk who had more help than Durant ever did on OKC :cheers:

But durant had westbrick!!! All nba! He had plenty of help right?!

You don't know the game bro... stop[/QUOTE]

Yep… it’s just luck. That is why Durant doesn’t have noteworthy success as the best player on teams.

Playing with current all-nba players and multiple MVP’s just isn’t good enough to prove he’s a superior player to some of the best argument.

You sound like a degen gambler complaining about bad luck all the time even though they just aren’t that good at poker or betting sports.

Good luck.

Durant is quite possibly gonna end up really underrated all time with the way people hate him.