[B]Bernard King[/B] was voted the #70 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops.
22.5 PPG | 5.8 RPG | 3.3 APG
4
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[B]Bernard King[/B] was voted the #70 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops.
22.5 PPG | 5.8 RPG | 3.3 APG
4
[IMG]http://img.ezinemark.com/imagemanager2/files/30000560/2011/03/2011-03-14-12-35-15-4-dave-bing-is-a-businessman-the-mayor-of-detroit.jpeg[/IMG]
Dave Bing
[B]Alex English[/B]
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[QUOTE=Deuce Bigalow][B]Alex English[/B]
8
[QUOTE=L.Kizzle]Both guys are similar as they played with deep competition at there position. But is seems as Bing fared far better.
Bing was All-NBA 1st team in 1968 over Jerry West and sharing a spot with Oscar Robertson. In 71, West joined him as he bested Oscar this time and Walt Frazier.
It could be argued the only guards better than him at his best were West, O and Frazier. He was better than Pistol Pete, Pearl Monroe and Gail Goodrich. Probably the same level as Tiny Archibald.
With English, not only Bird and Doc, but also King, Wilkins, Marques Johnson. I think he was better than Dantley and Aguirre.[/QUOTE]
Not enough team success to be over English. Too many 30 win seasons.
[QUOTE=Deuce Bigalow]Not enough team success to be over English. Too many 30 win seasons.[/QUOTE]
English played on some terrible well balance teams.
Bing did have Bob Lanier and early one DeBusshere. But it was always 2 man teams.
On the Nuggets, English wasn't the only high scorer. Usually have English, Kiki and Issel over 20 a game. And even David Thompson and later Fat Lever.
[QUOTE=L.Kizzle]English played on some terrible well balance teams.
Bing did have Bob Lanier and early one DeBusshere. But it was always 2 man teams.
On the Nuggets, English wasn't the only high scorer. Usually have English, Kiki and Issel over 20 a game. And even David Thompson and later Fat Lever.[/QUOTE]
English in the 85 Playoffs: 30-7-5 60%ts leading his team to conference finals. Bing doesn't have a playoff run even close to that and missed the playoffs 7 times in a shorter career than English.
[QUOTE=Deuce Bigalow]English in the 85 Playoffs: 30-7-5 60%ts leading his team to conference finals. Bing doesn't have a playoff run even close to that and missed the playoffs 7 times in a shorter career than English.[/QUOTE]
Going by playoff stars, in that same year Sidney Moncrief had a 70%TS rating.
Alex English
Mitch Richmond!!!!
[IMG]http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mc453jjUfq1ri3gxjo1_500.jpg[/IMG]
Aomine Daiki.
Tony Parker
Zo > those scrubs:oldlol:
I cant believe Tmac the 2nd Round Virgin, future CBA GOAT got voted already.. :lol
[QUOTE=KOBE143]I cant believe Tmac the 2nd Round Virgin, future CBA GOAT got voted already.. :lol[/QUOTE]
Where do you think he should be ranked?
Most credible lists I've seen have him somewhere between #70 and #80.
Joe Dumars
Bob Lanier
Joe Dumars
Penny Hardaway
Joe Dumars
Alex English
(dont ask, i am at a random voting stage right now between 10 players lol)
[QUOTE=pauk]Alex English
(dont ask, i am at a random voting stage right now between 10 players lol)[/QUOTE]
Who are the other 9 players?
Earl "The Pearl" Monroe
English and Dumars each tied for the lead with 3 votes
Just so that I understand the logic being applied here, how is it that Tmac has already gotten in, but I haven't seen one vote for Vince? Mcgrady's peak was higher(2003) but Vince had some solid seasons between 2000 and 2009( before he went to Orlando). Just seems to me that wherever one is voted, the other shouldnt be too far behind. The same work ethic issues apply to both,and Vince has had the more successful career between the two.
David Thompson
Bump let's keep this going c'mon people.
[QUOTE=L.Kizzle]Who are the other 9 players?[/QUOTE]
Bill Sharman
Adrian Dantley
Joe Dumars
Alonzo Mourning
Earl Monroe
Sidney Moncrief
Dave Bing
David Thompson
Bob Lanier
[QUOTE=Dragonyeuw]Just so that I understand the logic being applied here, how is it that Tmac has already gotten in, but I haven't seen one vote for Vince? Mcgrady's peak was higher(2003) but Vince had some solid seasons between 2000 and 2009( before he went to Orlando). Just seems to me that wherever one is voted, the other shouldnt be too far behind. The same work ethic issues apply to both,and Vince has had the more successful career between the two.[/QUOTE]
I think sometimes the good ole fashioned eyeball test is used.
T-Mac was simply a better and more dynamic player. Career success is partially rooted in luck. Vince has never made an All-NBA 1st Team (T-Mac did twice), and T-Mac has never flat-out disappeared on his team in the playoffs the way Vince has on a couple of occasions.
Joe Dumars
[QUOTE=pauk]Bill Sharman
Adrian Dantley
Joe Dumars
Alonzo Mourning
Earl Monroe
Sidney Moncrief
Dave Bing
David Thompson
Bob Lanier[/QUOTE]
1 Bing
2 Lanier
3 Thompson
4 Moncrief
5 Monroe
6 Zo
7 Dumars
8 Sharman
9 Dantley
[QUOTE=L.Kizzle]1 Bing
2 Lanier
3 Thompson
4 Moncrief
5 Monroe
6 Zo
7 Dumars
8 Sharman
9 Dantley[/QUOTE]
Its tough imo.... they all deserve to be around here, i am just reaching my hand in that bag and whatever name pops up i am voting for...
Mitch Richmond
[QUOTE=HardwoodLegend]I think sometimes the good ole fashioned eyeball test is used.
T-Mac was simply a better and more dynamic player. Career success is partially rooted in luck. Vince has never made an All-NBA 1st Team (T-Mac did twice), and T-Mac has never flat-out disappeared on his team in the playoffs the way Vince has on a couple of occasions.[/QUOTE]
I already stated that peak Tmac was obviously better. But, I don't think there's a ton of difference between, say, 2003 Tmac and 2001 Vince Carter.
These rankings are completely subjective and the criteria seems to change with each pick. Yeah, Tmac had a few seasons that are better than anything Vince did, but at their peaks neither one of them had a really great team around them and you could argue that Vince at least did more with those early 2000 Raptors than Tmac did with the early 2000 Magic. Even when Tmac had a decent Rockets squad he was unable to achieve any kind of playoff success. I think it can go either way really as to who you rank higher, the point is I believe they're in the same tier so whoever you rank first, the other shouldn't be far behind.
[QUOTE=Dragonyeuw]I already stated that peak Tmac was obviously better. But, I don't think there's a ton of difference between, say, 2003 Tmac and 2001 Vince Carter.
These rankings are completely subjective and the criteria seems to change with each pick. Yeah, Tmac had a few seasons that are better than anything Vince did, but at their peaks neither one of them had a really great team around them and you could argue that Vince at least did more with those early 2000 Raptors than Tmac did with the early 2000 Magic. Even when Tmac had a decent Rockets squad he was unable to achieve any kind of playoff success. I think it can go either way really as to who you rank higher, the point is I believe they're in the same tier so whoever you rank first, the other shouldn't be far behind.[/QUOTE]
Neither the 2000 Raptors or 2000 Magic teams were good at all, but Vince at least had the benefit of an inside presence. Antonio Davis gave him that double double and 2 blocks per game. T-Mac had no interior whatsoever in Orlando, but I think he would have been better served staying there rather than going to Houston because of the unexpected re-emergence of Grant Hill and acquisition of Dwight Howard.
Houston was a decent squad, but T-Mac and Yao were still a star-crossed duo. Whenever T-Mac was on and firing, Yao was lagging a bit behind because of injuries, fatigue, etc. (2005 & 2008 Playoffs) and vice versa (2007 Playoffs). So, faulting T-Mac for his shortcomings in Houston in favor of propping up Vince doesn't work since Vince still had to deal with a weaker conference.
T-Mac continues to be one of the most misunderstood and unfairly maligned great players out there. I know people hate "excuses", but there really are a lot of intricacies of bad luck that held back his career.
[QUOTE=HardwoodLegend]Neither the 2000 Raptors or 2000 Magic teams were good at all, but Vince at least had the benefit of an inside presence. Antonio Davis gave him that double double and 2 blocks per game. T-Mac had no interior whatsoever in Orlando, but I think he would have been better served staying there rather than going to Houston because of the unexpected re-emergence of Grant Hill and acquisition of Dwight Howard.
Houston was a decent squad, but T-Mac and Yao were still a star-crossed duo. Whenever T-Mac was on and firing, Yao was lagging a bit behind because of injuries, fatigue, etc. (2005 & 2008 Playoffs) and vice versa (2007 Playoffs). So, faulting T-Mac for his shortcomings in Houston in favor of propping up Vince doesn't work since Vince still had to deal with a weaker conference.
T-Mac continues to be one of the most misunderstood and unfairly maligned great players out there. I know people hate "excuses", but there really are a lot of intricacies of bad luck that held back his career.[/QUOTE]
That's a fair analysis, but pay attention to my final point. No matter where you rank these guys, they're close in the all-time rankings. That's all I'm saying... I haven't made a case to say that Vince should be ranker higher, only that they're more or less on the same tier. I'm fully aware that the comparison isn't apples to apples in terms of how their careers panned out, and injuries limited both guys to varying degrees. I believe that Houston team had potential but like you said, Tmac and Yao were never on the court long enough( in health) to be able to establish anything. Those are the breaks, unfortunately.