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Lebron is NOT more skilled than Jordan (who isn't even the most skilled player ever)
Lebron is extremely talented, but no way his skills are even remotely in the top 10 conversation, at least not yet.
so stop it. :no:
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Re: Lebron is NOT more skilled than Jordan (who isn't even the most skilled player ever)
[QUOTE=riseagainst]Lebron is extremely talented, but no way his skills are even remotely in the top 10 conversation, at least not yet.
so stop it. :no:[/QUOTE]
Watch him lose next year and all these dumb threads die w him.
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Re: Lebron is NOT more skilled than Jordan (who isn't even the most skilled player ever)
LeBron may be nearly as talented and definitely as physically gifted as MJ (if not more), but skilled? Come on, and that's not a stab at LeBron but as far as overall skillset...LeBron is clearly inferior. Maybe down the road LeBron may have a case for GOAT, he's one of the most complete, well rounded, and productive players our league has ever seen. But at this point, LeBrons offensive game relies more on sheer athleticism, size and brute force than anything else aside from his great passing abilitity and playmaking.
And I'll agree, while I believe MJ is the greatest, I also don't believe he's the most "skilled". Kobe has a case for being more skilled than Michael even though he is not as good as him
overall.
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Re: Lebron is NOT more skilled than Jordan (who isn't even the most skilled player ever)
[QUOTE=Vertical-24]LeBron may be nearly as talented and definitely as physically gifted as MJ (if not more), but skilled? Come on, and that's not a stab at LeBron but as far as overall skillset...LeBron is clearly inferior. Maybe down the road LeBron may have a case for GOAT, he's one of the most complete, well rounded, and productive players our league has ever seen. But at this point, LeBrons offensive game relies more on sheer athleticism, size and brute force than anything else aside from his great passing abilitity and playmaking.
And I'll agree, while I believe MJ is the greatest, I also don't believe he's the most "skilled". Kobe has a case for being more skilled than Michael even though he is not as good as him
overall.[/QUOTE]
Yeah great, and this 5'3 dude i know from my hood is the most skilled player on earth. I'd easily take Kwame Brown or Joel Anthony over him though.
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Re: Lebron is NOT more skilled than Jordan (who isn't even the most skilled player ever)
[QUOTE=Vertical-24]LeBron may be nearly as talented and definitely as physically gifted as MJ (if not more), but skilled? Come on, and that's not a stab at LeBron but as far as overall skillset...LeBron is clearly inferior. Maybe down the road LeBron may have a case for GOAT, he's one of the most complete, well rounded, and productive players our league has ever seen. But at this point, LeBrons offensive game relies more on sheer athleticism, size and brute force than anything else aside from his great passing abilitity and playmaking.
And I'll agree, while I believe MJ is the greatest, I also don't believe he's the most "skilled". Kobe has a case for being more skilled than Michael even though he is not as good as him
overall.[/QUOTE]
I agree! Lebron scoring skillset is what holds him back some in the skill for skill argument. Sure he's a great scorer, but when u break down his scoring skillset, he's only truly great at finishing in transition and slashing to the rack. When u look at MJ's scoring skillset, he was a great slasher, great transition finisher, great postup guy, great midrange game, and had flawless footwork. The same can be said about Kobe as well. Now in terms of being a great passer, great rebounder, great defender,and great scorer all in one, Lebron is as good as any SF ever. It's just the scoring skillset that's not as varied.
In terms or being great or dominant, u don't have to be great at all technical facets of the game. It's about dominance and results. And Bron can stuff a stat sheet and provide versatility damn near unparalled in NBA history!
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Re: Lebron is NOT more skilled than Jordan (who isn't even the most skilled player ever)
Lebrons footwork, post up, jump shot are all pretty shit to be honest. He's great at barreling in for layups and dunks though:applause:
So skills wise I'd say hes not that great..
But he is a great rebounder and passer. Decent defender, definitely can't defend 1-5 like some retards claim..
Jordan>Kobe>lebron..
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Re: Lebron is NOT more skilled than Jordan (who isn't even the most skilled player ever)
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Re: Lebron is NOT more skilled than Jordan (who isn't even the most skilled player ever)
And yet his the best player in the game, and has been for multiple years.. Good stuff King James.
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Re: Lebron is NOT more skilled than Jordan (who isn't even the most skilled player ever)
[QUOTE=tmacattack33]Yeah great, and this 5'3 dude i know from my hood is the most skilled player on earth. I'd easily take Kwame Brown or Joel Anthony over him though.[/QUOTE]
doubt it
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Re: Lebron is NOT more skilled than Jordan (who isn't even the most skilled player ever)
[QUOTE=tmacattack33]Yeah great, and this 5'3 dude i know from my hood is the most skilled player on earth. I'd easily take Kwame Brown or Joel Anthony over him though.[/QUOTE]
terrible logic. No one said being the most skilled player implies being the best to ever play. Not to mention the 5'3 guy probably won't even play the same position as Kwame Brown, so what's your point? "I'd take a center over a guard if they have the same value to a team." no sh*t sherlock. :roll:
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Re: Lebron is NOT more skilled than Jordan (who isn't even the most skilled player ever)
[QUOTE=Vertical-24]LeBron may be nearly as talented and definitely as physically gifted as MJ (if not more), but skilled? Come on, and that's not a stab at LeBron but as far as overall skillset...LeBron is clearly inferior. Maybe down the road LeBron may have a case for GOAT, he's one of the most complete, well rounded, and productive players our league has ever seen. But at this point, LeBrons offensive game relies more on sheer athleticism, size and brute force than anything else aside from his great passing abilitity and playmaking.
And I'll agree, while I believe MJ is the greatest, I also don't believe he's the most "skilled". Kobe has a case for being more skilled than Michael even though he is not as good as him
overall.[/QUOTE]
great post. Thanks for reinforcing what I said.
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Re: Lebron is NOT more skilled than Jordan (who isn't even the most skilled player ever)
[QUOTE=tmacattack33]Yeah great, and this 5'3 dude i know from my hood is the most skilled player on earth. I'd easily take Kwame Brown or Joel Anthony over him though.[/QUOTE]
Ummm...what are you trying to say? It damn sure doesn't seem to relate to my post. If anything, I admitted being skilled doesn't always translate into being better, and I never once put down LeBrons physical ability or talent. Did you even read what I said?
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Re: Lebron is NOT more skilled than Jordan (who isn't even the most skilled player ever)
[QUOTE=NumberSix]OP mad like a muhfukka[/QUOTE]
Lebron stans always say he's a top 5/10 most skilled players, which is wrong. Don't tell me you are a Lebron stan now. :rolleyes:
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Re: Lebron is NOT more skilled than Jordan (who isn't even the most skilled player ever)
When people say skilled they mean his whole game not just scoring. He's the most skilled player I've ever seen and I'm 29 years old. Jordan is the greatest I've seen by far, but Lebron does everything either good or great. You add his size, power, and speed with his passing ability and defense then you have most skilled. He's a very good scorer while Jordan was great. Most you kids never seen MJ play in his prime.
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Re: Lebron is NOT more skilled than Jordan (who isn't even the most skilled player ever)
[QUOTE=Quickening]And yet his the best player in the game, and has been for multiple years.. Good stuff King James.[/QUOTE]
no one's saying he isn't. But to say his skill level is on top is really far-fetched.
a player can be broken down into 3 attributes: talent, skill, IQ. Lebron happens to be at a very high level for talent and IQ, but his skills need much more work.
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Re: Lebron is NOT more skilled than Jordan (who isn't even the most skilled player ever)
look at these butthurt lebron stans voting this thread as 1 star. :roll:
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Re: Lebron is NOT more skilled than Jordan (who isn't even the most skilled player ever)
[QUOTE=cavsfanatic]When people say skilled they mean his whole game not just scoring. He's the most skilled player I've ever seen and I'm 29 years old. Jordan is the greatest I've seen by far, but Lebron does everything either good or great. You add his size, power, and speed with his passing ability and defense then you have most skilled. He's a very good scorer while Jordan was great. Most you kids never seen MJ play in his prime.[/QUOTE]
Lebron is literally nowhere near as skilled as Jordan. Like, not even in the same universe.
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Re: Lebron is NOT more skilled than Jordan (who isn't even the most skilled player ever)
[QUOTE=riseagainst]Lebron is extremely talented, but no way his skills are even remotely in the top 10 conversation, at least not yet.
so stop it. :no:[/QUOTE]
Do you know what skills are? There has never been a player with the complete package as him. Everybody including his biggest hater in Skip Bayless recognizes this. Skills aren't something to say he's not top 10 yet lmao.
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Re: Lebron is NOT more skilled than Jordan (who isn't even the most skilled player ever)
[QUOTE=cavsfanatic]Do you know what skills are? There has never been a player with the [B]complete package[/B] as him. Everybody including his biggest hater in Skip Bayless recognizes this. Skills aren't something to say he's not top 10 yet lmao.[/QUOTE]
you are a dumb f*ck. Skills and talent are different things.
Skills are things you acquire by experience/learning.
Talent is something you are born with.
Having a complete package just means his all around game, you retard. Has nothing to do with being the most skilled or not. Lebrontards on full ignition now. :lol
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Re: Lebron is NOT more skilled than Jordan (who isn't even the most skilled player ever)
[QUOTE=OldSchoolBBall]Lebron is literally nowhere near as skilled as Jordan. Like, not even in the same universe.[/QUOTE]
Skills are scoring, rebounding, passing, and defense right? Jordan is superior in scoring but IMO Lebron is better at rebounding and passing. Defense about even.. Lebron is severely overrated on Defense on how he guards every position because he get's torched from time to time. Jordan wasn't guarding many great scorers though.
Jordan is god to me but I'm not blind to players doing things better than him.
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Re: Lebron is NOT more skilled than Jordan (who isn't even the most skilled player ever)
[QUOTE=riseagainst]you are a dumb f*ck. Skills and talent are different things.
Skills are things you acquire by experience/learning.
Talent is something you are born with.[/QUOTE]
What skills don't Lebron have? Oh yea chill with the attitude over the internet tough guy. If you can't have a discussion without being a Internet gangster don't respond to my post and log off your mom's computer
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Re: Lebron is NOT more skilled than Jordan (who isn't even the most skilled player ever)
[QUOTE=cavsfanatic]Skills are scoring, rebounding, passing, and defense right? Jordan is superior in scoring but IMO Lebron is better at rebounding and passing. Defense about even.. Lebron is severely overrated on Defense on how he guards every position because he get's torched from time to time. Jordan wasn't guarding many great scorers though.
Jordan is god to me but I'm not blind to players doing things better than him.[/QUOTE]
stat geeks. :facepalm:
"bu bu but, Lebron averages more assists than Jordan, therefore he MUST be a better passer." :lol
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Re: Lebron is NOT more skilled than Jordan (who isn't even the most skilled player ever)
[QUOTE=cavsfanatic]Skills are scoring, rebounding, passing, and defense right? Jordan is superior in scoring but IMO Lebron is better at rebounding and passing. Defense about even.. Lebron is severely overrated on Defense on how he guards every position because he get's torched from time to time. Jordan wasn't guarding many great scorers though.
Jordan is god to me but I'm not blind to players doing things better than him.[/QUOTE]
No, skills aren't the same thing as the ABILITY to do those things. Ability is ability, and can be attributable to any number of factors (skill, natural ability a la Magic for passing etc.). First off, Jordan was a more skilled rebounder than Lebron (timing/positioning, footwork/boxing out, reading the ball in the air etc.) and there is a case to be made that Lebron isn't even a better rebounder than Jordan, only equal (I would certainly take Jordan over Lebron if I needed a big rebound). At best it's a marginal difference. Lebron may be a better passer - again, only marginally if so. And much of this is due to his natural vision/size as opposed to technical SKILL in passing. Defense is certainly NOT even - Jordan wins that handily, especially the SKILL areas of defense (footwork, rotations etc.). Jordan DESTROYS Lebron in terms of post game, footwork (in any context), off-ball movement, screen usage/setting, use of fakes, craftiness etc.
Honestly, it's not really close. ROOKIE Jordan was doing things skill-wise that you still don't see from Lebron TODAY.
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Re: Lebron is NOT more skilled than Jordan (who isn't even the most skilled player ever)
[QUOTE=cavsfanatic]What skills don't Lebron have? Oh yea chill with the attitude over the internet tough guy. If you can't have a discussion without being a Internet gangster don't respond to my post and log off your mom's computer[/QUOTE]
I'm chilling at my work. :pimp: relax moron, don't gotta go all personal. You think because Lebron is 27-7-7 his skills are on top. Most of his advantage right now are due to his talents (athleticism, strenghth, speed). He has no consistent jumper and post game. They aren't bad, but they aren't all time great levels. If you don't agree with this then you are in denial.
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Re: Lebron is NOT more skilled than Jordan (who isn't even the most skilled player ever)
[QUOTE=OldSchoolBBall]Lebron is literally nowhere near as skilled as Jordan. Like, not even in the same universe.[/QUOTE]
:facepalm
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Re: Lebron is NOT more skilled than Jordan (who isn't even the most skilled player ever)
What I find shocking is that people don't know lebron was third in shooting percentage for jumpers in 2011 and above average in 2012.
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Re: Lebron is NOT more skilled than Jordan (who isn't even the most skilled player ever)
Who cares how he scores? He shoots at over 50%. The skill arguement is only used by Kobe d.ick riders.
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Re: Lebron is NOT more skilled than Jordan (who isn't even the most skilled player ever)
[QUOTE=bizil]I agree! Lebron scoring skillset is what holds him back some in the skill for skill argument. Sure he's a great scorer, but when u break down his scoring skillset, he's only truly great at finishing in transition and slashing to the rack. When u look at MJ's scoring skillset, he was a great slasher, great transition finisher, great postup guy, great midrange game, and had flawless footwork. The same can be said about Kobe as well. Now in terms of being a great passer, great rebounder, great defender,and great scorer all in one, Lebron is as good as any SF ever. It's just the scoring skillset that's not as varied.
In terms or being great or dominant, u don't have to be great at all technical facets of the game. It's about dominance and results. And Bron can stuff a stat sheet and provide versatility damn near unparalled in NBA history![/QUOTE]
IT's crazy how people compare players of different era's. Jordan came into the league not with the jumper he developed,not with the post moves, not with the hitting the open man for a winning bucket. He developed most of this in his 8-10 year in the league.Lebron had gotten better each year. Im not sayiing he is more skilled than MJ just saying it took MJ a few years to develop also.
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Re: Lebron is NOT more skilled than Jordan (who isn't even the most skilled player ever)
[QUOTE=SilkkTheShocker]Who cares how he scores? He shoots at over 50%. The skill arguement is only used by Kobe d.ick riders.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]Lebron is NOT more skilled than [B]Jordan[/B][/QUOTE]
someone's insecure. :rolleyes:
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Re: Lebron is NOT more skilled than Jordan (who isn't even the most skilled player ever)
[QUOTE=Niquesports]IT's crazy how people compare players of different era's. Jordan came into the league not with the jumper he developed,not with the post moves, not with the hitting the open man for a winning bucket. He developed most of this in his 8-10 year in the league.Lebron had gotten better each year. Im not sayiing he is more skilled than MJ just saying it took MJ a few years to develop also.[/QUOTE]
Jordan as a rookie (certainly by his second or third full season) was more skilled than Lebron is now after 9 seasons.
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Re: Lebron is NOT more skilled than Jordan (who isn't even the most skilled player ever)
[QUOTE=riseagainst]someone's insecure. :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
Insecure about what? Because Lebron doesn't shoot fadeaway jumpers all the time? Give me the more efficient, elite defending Lebron, anyday
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Re: Lebron is NOT more skilled than Jordan (who isn't even the most skilled player ever)
[QUOTE=riseagainst]terrible logic. No one said being the most skilled player implies being the best to ever play. Not to mention the 5'3 guy probably won't even play the same position as Kwame Brown, so what's your point? "I'd take a center over a guard if they have the same value to a team." no sh*t sherlock. :roll:[/QUOTE]
My point was simple...it doesn't matter who is more "skilled". The only thing that matters is the player's overall ability.
And I just as easily could have said Derek Fisher and Mario Chalmers instead of Kwame Brown and Joel Anthony, so whatever you are getting at with the center vs guard thing doesn't even matter here.
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Re: Lebron is NOT more skilled than Jordan (who isn't even the most skilled player ever)
[QUOTE=Niquesports]IT's crazy how people compare players of different era's. Jordan came into the league not with the jumper he developed,not with the post moves, not with the hitting the open man for a winning bucket. He developed most of this in his 8-10 year in the league.Lebron had gotten better each year. Im not sayiing he is more skilled than MJ just saying it took MJ a few years to develop also.[/QUOTE]
I agree with u! And I'm just stating how I see Bron's game as of now and not what it can be. Bron is already epic in my book. Peak value wise, give me MJ, Magic, Bird, Kobe,and Bron as the top five perimeter players ever. I just want Bron to get that killer instinct scoring more consistently like Magic, MJ, Bird,and Kobe had. If anything I just want Bron to punish teams more on the block, which he is starting to do more anyway. I'm not saying he doesn't have it, but those four are or were bloodthirsty when it came to winning. Bron just needs more moments, which I'm confident he will have.
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Re: Lebron is NOT more skilled than Jordan (who isn't even the most skilled player ever)
[QUOTE=tmacattack33]My point was simple...it doesn't matter who is more "skilled". The only thing that matters is the player's overall ability.
And I just as easily could have said Derek Fisher and Mario Chalmers instead of Kwame Brown and Joel Anthony, so whatever you are getting at with the center vs guard thing doesn't even matter here.[/QUOTE]
Right on the money! It's all about the impact u have on the floor. U don't have to be the most skilled in every technical facet of the game. U don't have to always be the most versatile, it's about your impact. Dan Majerle was more skilled and versatile than Reggie Miller. But who was the better player and in the HOF, REGGIE!! The reason why is because Miller is one of the greatest shooters ever. Who was able to translate that into averaging over 20 points a night several seasons. And it enabled him to stand behind ONLY MJ and Kobe in total career points amongst SG's. And when it comes to clutch shot shit, Miller is up there with MJ, West, and Bird. So it's about IMPACT!
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Re: Lebron is NOT more skilled than Jordan (who isn't even the most skilled player ever)
[QUOTE=coin24]Lebrons footwork, post up, jump shot are all pretty shit to be honest. He's great at barreling in for layups and dunks though:applause:
So skills wise I'd say hes not that great..
But he is a great rebounder and passer. Decent defender, definitely can't defend 1-5 like some retards claim..
[B]Jordan>Kobe>lebron..[/B][/QUOTE]
Jordan>>>Kobe>LeBron
Better like that.
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Re: Lebron is NOT more skilled than Jordan (who isn't even the most skilled player ever)
[QUOTE=OldSchoolBBall]No, skills aren't the same thing as the ABILITY to do those things. Ability is ability, and can be attributable to any number of factors (skill, natural ability a la Magic for passing etc.). First off, Jordan was a more skilled rebounder than Lebron (timing/positioning, footwork/boxing out, reading the ball in the air etc.) and there is a case to be made that Lebron isn't even a better rebounder than Jordan, only equal (I would certainly take Jordan over Lebron if I needed a big rebound). At best it's a marginal difference. Lebron may be a better passer - again, only marginally if so. And much of this is due to his natural vision/size as opposed to technical SKILL in passing. Defense is certainly NOT even - Jordan wins that handily, especially the SKILL areas of defense (footwork, rotations etc.). Jordan DESTROYS Lebron in terms of post game, footwork (in any context), off-ball movement, screen usage/setting, use of fakes, craftiness etc.
Honestly, it's not really close. ROOKIE Jordan was doing things skill-wise that you still don't see from Lebron TODAY.[/QUOTE]
Lebron is a better rebounder than Jordan because of some know how on Lebron's part. He consistently gets gets more with less opportunities. Practical skill is related to know how, judgement and application. Skill without those three qualities is useless. As to how Lebron can have inferior timing, reading of the ball in the air and positioning yet consistently rebound better than the next guy even when he's guarding guys like Durant is when your delusion has gone into craziness.
No, Jordan wasn't the same passer Lebron is either. When Jordan was older he used wisdom and looked better than he did when he was younger but it didn't elevate him to some elite level. Jordan could create on over plays but he didn't use timing, delays, acutuity on whether to bounce or lob, to pass off the dribble, full court passes, superior positioning, know which player to get going or such. [B]This hate first and make sense later is going to far![/B]
Lebron learned to dribble, learned to pass, learned to rebound, learned to know the more complex defenses, learned to play different positions and their skillsets, learned to guard different positions and their skillset. Lebron learned when to use his superior judgment of when to pass and when to shoot. Lebron learned to how to integrate more players into the game. Lebron learned how to run a great fast break. Lebron learned his teammate's strengths. Lebron learned when let other's step up. Skill is moreso about applying what you know to get the desired outcome than it is about technical excellence.
From dictionary.com
1st meaning of skill.
[B]the ability[/B], coming from [B]one's knowledge,[/B] practice, [B]aptitude[/B], etc., [B]to do something well.[/B]
You try using the same skill set to play or guard a point guard and a power forward and see how far it gets you. Versatility is the biggest manifestation of skill sets. Blake has Lebron's athleticism and strength but the skill set is different. If Iggy had Lebron's skill set he would be the second best player.
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Re: Lebron is NOT more skilled than Jordan (who isn't even the most skilled player ever)
[QUOTE=Vertical-24]LeBron may be nearly as talented and definitely as physically gifted as MJ (if not more), but skilled? Come on, and that's not a stab at LeBron but as far as overall skillset...LeBron is clearly inferior. Maybe down the road LeBron may have a case for GOAT, he's one of the most complete, well rounded, and productive players our league has ever seen. But at this point, LeBrons offensive game relies more on sheer athleticism, size and brute force than anything else aside from his great passing abilitity and playmaking.
And I'll agree, while I believe MJ is the greatest, I also don't believe he's the most "skilled". Kobe has a case for being more skilled than Michael even though he is not as good as him
overall.[/QUOTE]
:applause:
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Re: Lebron is NOT more skilled than Jordan (who isn't even the most skilled player ever)
Kobe more skilled than Jordan?
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5TezxxjlfA[/url]
:coleman:
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Re: Lebron is NOT more skilled than Jordan (who isn't even the most skilled player ever)
I didn't even read OP because the thread title already contained two mistakes.
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Re: Lebron is NOT more skilled than Jordan (who isn't even the most skilled player ever)
[QUOTE=Pointguard]Lebron is a better rebounder than Jordan because of some know how on Lebron's part. He consistently gets gets more with less opportunities. Practical skill is related to know how, judgement and application. Skill without those three qualities is useless. As to how Lebron can have inferior timing, reading of the ball in the air and positioning yet consistently rebound better than the next guy even when he's guarding guys like Durant is when your delusion has gone into craziness.[/quote]
Lebron averages one more rebound than Jordan (and far fewer offensive boards, which are the more valuable and difficult boards to get) despite being 2+" taller, 40-60 pounds heavier, and playing with worse rebounders his whole career than Jordan did and playing against far smaller and less physical front lines. As I said, that's a MARGINAL difference at best, and imo Jordan is pretty clearly the more skilled rebounder.
[quote]No, Jordan wasn't the same passer Lebron is either. When Jordan was older he used wisdom and looked better than he did when he was younger but it didn't elevate him to some elite level. Jordan could create on over plays but he didn't use timing, delays, acutuity on whether to bounce or lob, to pass off the dribble, full court passes, superior positioning, know which player to get going or such. [/quote]
This is a joke. Again, Lebron may be a MARGINALLY better passer, but that's about it. The magnitude of Lebron's advantages at rebounding and passing is nothing next to the gulf that exists between them as scorers, especially when taking into account portability of scoring skills. Lebron is many team contexts would NOT be a 27+ ppg scorer. Prime Jordan ('90 onward) would be a 28+ ppg scorer in ANY team context. Jordan is also clearly the better defender - don't let Lebron's defensive hype fool you.