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Did the Bulls overachieve last regular season? Phil Jackson thinks so
The Bulls led the entire league in regular season wins in 2010-11.
And, Derrick Rose, despite his youth, won MVP.
Did the team as a whole overachieve? Are they not quite THAT amazing a squad?
Phil Jackson thinks so.
Read this, and share your thoughts:
[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/blog/?p=8517[/url]
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Re: Did the Bulls overachieve last regular season? Phil Jackson thinks so
[QUOTE=insidehoops]The Bulls led the entire league in regular season wins in 2010-11.
And, Derrick Rose, despite his youth, won MVP.
Did the team as a whole overachieve? Are they not quite THAT amazing a squad?
Phil Jackson thinks so.
Read this, and share your thoughts:
[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/blog/?p=8517[/url][/QUOTE]
The Bulls are as worse as the Bucks without Rose. Lets hope they give him some help. Don't want this to be the LeBron situation in Clevland.
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Re: Did the Bulls overachieve last regular season? Phil Jackson thinks so
Could probably say that more so about the Spurs, who also finished with 60+ wins, but with a mostly veteran lead cast of players who have alot mileage. At least the Bulls had a young player like Rose as the heart of the team, and player like Boozer who per-36 minutes averages close to 20 ppg. None the less, I don't think failing in the playoffs necessarily means a winning team "overachieved" in the regular season. It just means they (as a team) weren't ready for the intensity that is playoff basketball and had weaknesses that could be costly in a 7 game series.
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Re: Did the Bulls overachieve last regular season? Phil Jackson thinks so
[QUOTE=SCdac] It just means they (as a team) weren't ready for the intensity that is playoff basketball and had weaknesses that could be costly in a 7 game series.[/QUOTE]
I mean.. that pretty much means they overachieved. The playoffs usually show the true strength of a team, and they showed that the Bull's regular season record was not indicative of how good they really were.
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Re: Did the Bulls overachieve last regular season? Phil Jackson thinks so
I believe so. But as long as they find a way for boozer to get lost and rose to get better. Maybe even throw in a decent sg there theyll do fine for the next couple of years.
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Re: Did the Bulls overachieve last regular season? Phil Jackson thinks so
[QUOTE=tpols]I mean.. that pretty much means they overachieved. The playoffs usually show the true strength of a team, and they showed that the Bull's regular season record was not indicative of how good they really were.[/QUOTE]
I guess I don't agree that a teams record is an exact representation of how good the team will be come the playoffs, that would cause some real black and white "over/under achieving". Rather, "over achieving" to me is more of a team that suspiciously and awkwardly falls flat in the playoffs, like say SA last season. The Bulls made it to the ECF for the first time since 1998, which in it of itself is an achievement IMO. Given their knack for defense, their MVP's level of player, and their relatively well rounded cast of role players, I think their 61 win season wasn't that strange (relative to other 60-win teams).
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Re: Did the Bulls overachieve last regular season? Phil Jackson thinks so
I said this all season that they overachieved. As a young team with key injuries for a prolonged period of time, whole new situation and starting consistency from only two positions, no player of distinction in any area outside of Rose. Outside of Rose the team lacked dribblers and was deficient in creativity. Not loosing to a top 8 team since Dec. 3rd? 22 year old leader. A lot of close games and 4th quarter wins with Rose not getting calls. No vets to win games on simple know-how. They could have had more excuses than anybody in the top eight, but they came away with the best record.
I'm glad Phil said something cause folks were dieing to ignore this.
Phil also said Rose was unstoppable and could be better on the pick and role.
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Re: Did the Bulls overachieve last regular season? Phil Jackson thinks so
Well I doubt they could achieve such a record in the western conference.
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Re: Did the Bulls overachieve last regular season? Phil Jackson thinks so
[QUOTE=OmniStrife]Well I doubt they could achieve such a record in the western conference.[/QUOTE]
And why might this be important?
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Re: Did the Bulls overachieve last regular season? Phil Jackson thinks so
The Bulls were never an ELITE team. I wouldn't put them up there with the Heat, Celtics, Lakers and OKC. No body expected them to do that well and no one expected Rose to get MVP. I think they just got lucky and everyone fit in. Their bench helped tremendously too.
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Re: Did the Bulls overachieve last regular season? Phil Jackson thinks so
[QUOTE=EnoughSaid]The Bulls were never an ELITE team. I wouldn't put them up there with the Heat, [B]Celtics, Lakers and OKC[/B]. No body expected them to do that well and no one expected Rose to get MVP. I think they just got lucky and everyone fit in. Their bench helped tremendously too.[/QUOTE]
WE beat those teams handily and the Lakers got swept by the Mavs.
Why wouldn't we be "up there" with them?
To answer the OP:
1.) Yes. We overachieved.
2.) No, we weren't THAT amazing of a squad we played grind it out, improvised, often sloppy ball (esp. on offense).
3.) With a few tweaks I truly believe we can be champs in 2-3 years.
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Re: Did the Bulls overachieve last regular season? Phil Jackson thinks so
last years bulls were not much different than the cavs a few years ago. one superstar and a great defensive team. bulls D is championship level but they need more scorers, d. rose cant do it alone.
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Re: Did the Bulls overachieve last regular season? Phil Jackson thinks so
Heat, Bulls and The Celtics were the only real elite teams in the Eastern Conference Last season.
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Re: Did the Bulls overachieve last regular season? Phil Jackson thinks so
I think they did as much as the possibly could with that team.
Overachieving implies that they had no business to have 60 win season, which is a bit of an overstatement i would say.
Playoff wise only Celtics,Heat and Chicago had a realistic change of being in the ECF and the way the seeding turned out Chicago v Heat is what we got.
So no overachieving to see here.
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Re: Did the Bulls overachieve last regular season? Phil Jackson thinks so
most defensive teams overachieve in their first season and regress next. Thats what you get from playing through hustle(defense) instead of skill(offense). Once players get tired of playing defense, they will regress because they dont have the offense to fall back.
Most teams have second gear during playoffs and thats because they increase their efforts on defense. While bulls are already playing with their second gear during the regular season because they are a defensive team. Its good to play defense but the effects of it to players makes it ideal to play as less as possible and use it only in the playoffs. Because defense is the major cause of injuries. Just look at the defensive anchors in this league, you can only find few of them which are healthy and 1 of them is dwight but it requires for him to have that kind of body if you want to survive the contacts hes taking. So I predict bulls to regress next season. In fact their defensive anchor(noah) already hinted not liking thibs and he missed so many games due to defense. Once players quit playing defense, its over.
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Re: Did the Bulls overachieve last regular season? Phil Jackson thinks so
[QUOTE=knicksman]most defensive teams overachieve in their first season and regress next. Thats what you get from playing through hustle(defense) instead of skill(offense). Once players get tired of playing defense, they will regress because they dont have the offense to fall back. [/QUOTE]
I agree there. I think if the team keeps healthy they can win 60 next year. The offense has to get better next year.
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Re: Did the Bulls overachieve last regular season? Phil Jackson thinks so
[QUOTE=Vienceslav]I think they did as much as the possibly could with that team.
[B]Overachieving implies that they had no business to have 60 win season, which is a bit of an overstatement i would say.[/B]Playoff wise only Celtics,Heat and Chicago had a realistic change of being in the ECF and the way the seeding turned out Chicago v Heat is what we got.
So no overachieving to see here.[/QUOTE]
Even with the injuries, new system, new personelle, being young [B]best record [/B]with superteams in the mix?
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Re: Did the Bulls overachieve last regular season? Phil Jackson thinks so
[QUOTE=knicksman]most defensive teams overachieve in their first season and regress next. Thats what you get from playing through hustle(defense) instead of skill(offense). Once players get tired of playing defense, they will regress because they dont have the offense to fall back.
Most teams have second gear during playoffs and thats because they increase their efforts on defense. While bulls are already playing with their second gear during the regular season because they are a defensive team. Its good to play defense but the effects of it to players makes it ideal to play as less as possible and use it only in the playoffs. Because defense is the major cause of injuries. Just look at the defensive anchors in this league, you can only find few of them which are healthy and 1 of them is dwight but it requires for him to have that kind of body if you want to survive the contacts hes taking. So I predict bulls to regress next season. In fact their defensive anchor(noah) already hinted not liking thibs and he missed so many games due to defense. Once players quit playing defense, its over.[/QUOTE]
Dude this post is full of shit. For real, you sound stupid alluding to things with no evidence and expressing points you have no way of proving.
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Re: Did the Bulls overachieve last regular season? Phil Jackson thinks so
Bulls did overachieve last season record-wise. I doubt they'll win 60+ games next season but they'll be better prepared for the playoffs with experience.
Although I'm not the biggest fan of Bulls management, they're not as terribly run as the Cavs (Boozer is nowhere close to as bad a move as Larry Hughes) were when LeBron was there so I'm not that worried about the team getting worse in any way.
Thibodeau needs to hire an offensive assistant though. He's just as clueless about offense as Mike Brown is.
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Re: Did the Bulls overachieve last regular season? Phil Jackson thinks so
[QUOTE=Go Getter]Dude this post is full of shit. For real, you sound stupid alluding to things with no evidence and expressing points you have no way of proving.[/QUOTE]
He's a Knicks fan. They haven't seen a team of theirs play good defense since Clinton was President.
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Re: Did the Bulls overachieve last regular season? Phil Jackson thinks so
[QUOTE=dak121]He's a Knicks fan. They haven't seen a team of theirs play good defense since Clinton was President.[/QUOTE]
But c'Mon now, defense causes injuries? It's best to play less defense?
You can tell dude has never been on a team in his life.
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Re: Did the Bulls overachieve last regular season? Phil Jackson thinks so
they did overachieve in the regular season...i saw them as a 52 win team but they actually got 60 wins. But as far as playoffs i expected them to reach the ECF and no further than that.
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Re: Did the Bulls overachieve last regular season? Phil Jackson thinks so
Anybody who doesn't think they did, just remember who their starting SG was.
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Re: Did the Bulls overachieve last regular season? Phil Jackson thinks so
[QUOTE=nathanjizzle]they did overachieve in the regular season...i saw them as a 52 win team but they actually got 60 wins. But as far as playoffs i expected them to reach the ECF and no further than that.[/QUOTE]
i agree with the regular season, they blew my mind by winning so many games, bt i didn't expect them to make the ECF
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Re: Did the Bulls overachieve last regular season? Phil Jackson thinks so
Being in the ECF does not seem like a team that overachieved to me.
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Re: Did the Bulls overachieve last regular season? Phil Jackson thinks so
They were still a top five team last year. I'd probably only put Dallas and Miami ahead of them to be honest. I don't know if Boston, OKC or the Lakers would've beaten them.
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Re: Did the Bulls overachieve last regular season? Phil Jackson thinks so
man i would've loved to see magic/bulls
though rose would've been torchin jameer
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Re: Did the Bulls overachieve last regular season? Phil Jackson thinks so
No. They just weren't ready to beat the good teams in a 7 game series. But in the regular season they were absolutely the best team in the NBA.
Plus, they got screwed a ton by the refs in that Heat series.
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Re: Did the Bulls overachieve last regular season? Phil Jackson thinks so
[QUOTE=Go Getter]Dude this post is full of shit. For real, you sound stupid alluding to things with no evidence and expressing points you have no way of proving.[/QUOTE]
The truth hurts bro. Offense is important to preserve your health. Having a good offense enables your team to coast on defense against the lottery teams whereas your team needs to hustle playing against them. Thats why dallas won because they are the better offensive team. Thats why pjax won 11 rings because he has offense to go along with defense. Saying defense is more important than offense is like saying defensive players like ben wallace are more important than nowitzki
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Re: Did the Bulls overachieve last regular season? Phil Jackson thinks so
[QUOTE=miamiandorlando]i agree with the regular season, they blew my mind by winning so many games, bt i didn't expect them to make the ECF[/QUOTE]
You didn't expect them to beat the Pacers and Hawks? :wtf:
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Re: Did the Bulls overachieve last regular season? Phil Jackson thinks so
[QUOTE=ConanRulesNBC]You didn't expect them to beat the Pacers and Hawks? :wtf:[/QUOTE]
The series would gone 6 or 7 though if rose wasnt gifted with those 20+ fts.
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Re: Did the Bulls overachieve last regular season? Phil Jackson thinks so
[quote=ConanRulesNBC]
Plus, they got screwed a ton by the refs in that Heat series.[/quote]
:lol
Please. They were close games and your man couldnt chuck enough shots in fourth quarters.
Of course they overachieved. Everything Phil said was correct.
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Re: Did the Bulls overachieve last regular season? Phil Jackson thinks so
[QUOTE=knicksman]The series would gone 6 or 7 though if rose wasnt gifted with those 20+ fts.[/QUOTE]
'Gifted'.. if anything, Rose didn't get enough calls. It happens so often, he gets so fouled in those sick layups (and still makes them).. doesn't get a call. Just because he's one of the greatest slashers in the league right now, doesn't mean he got 'gifted' 20 free throws.
On a side note, the same thing goes for Wade in the 06 finals, people will just dig up the numbers and compare them to, say Kobe, and say 'well Wade got 5 more free throws a game then Kobe did, must have been a set up.. Maybe it's because their playing styles are different? Jump shooters vs. Slashers.. It's not that complicated. :facepalm
On topic; to a certain degree we did overachieve, we got the easiest match-ups in the entire playoffs up until the Heat, kinda surprised me our shitty offense didn't get exposed earlier.
With a decent SG added the Bulls can go all the way if you ask me. Boozer's fine, he has been injured badly for the most part of last year so everybody hating on him when he was just getting back in rhythm needs to calm down. I feel like he'll have a bounce back year next year, if he can stay healthy that is.
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Re: Did the Bulls overachieve last regular season? Phil Jackson thinks so
[QUOTE=G-train]:lol
Please. They were close games and your man couldnt chuck enough shots in fourth quarters.
Of course they overachieved. Everything Phil said was correct.[/QUOTE]
What game was it where Boozer fouled LeBron pretty hard and then the refs decided to send Miami to the free throw line like 8 more times after that for pathetic looking "fouls". The refs had a big hand in helping Miami that series.
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Re: Did the Bulls overachieve last regular season? Phil Jackson thinks so
I think they did fine.
They had a pretty decent frontline. They also had a pretty good coach and solid players overall. They probably need another scorer to give the weight off of Rose.
I thought the frontline of the Bulls would shut down the Heat, but that wasn't the case. They just need probably one good piece then they should give more of a fight.
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Re: Did the Bulls overachieve last regular season? Phil Jackson thinks so
[QUOTE=knicksman]The truth hurts bro. Offense is important to preserve your health. Having a good offense enables your team to coast on defense against the lottery teams whereas your team needs to hustle playing against them. Thats why dallas won because they are the better offensive team. Thats why pjax won 11 rings because he has offense to go along with defense. Saying defense is more important than offense is like saying defensive players like ben wallace are more important than nowitzki[/QUOTE]
Defense is more important than offense point blank.
The Celtics, Bulls, Spurs, Pistons, etc...all their great teams revolved around defense.
D Howard is a better player than Dirk (That's a better comparison).
Only when Dirk had help at forward (Tyson/Marion) that played good d did he win a championship. It's not a coincidence. When the Mavs got better defensively (and their comp got old) they won.
You have no proof that more players get hurt on defense. Idk where you get that bullshit from.
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Re: Did the Bulls overachieve last regular season? Phil Jackson thinks so
[quote=Go Getter]Defense is more important than offense point blank.
[/quote]
You are right, but unless Boozer is a consistent scorer in the block (and I mean the block not 18 feet out) then the bulls are just cannon fodder for playoff elite teams (teams build to succeed under intense playoff pressure).
Vast majority of regular season games are played at a pathetic level of intensity by most players.
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Re: Did the Bulls overachieve last regular season? Phil Jackson thinks so
[QUOTE=G-train]You are right, but unless Boozer is a consistent scorer in the block (and I mean the block not 18 feet out) then the bulls are just cannon fodder for playoff elite teams (teams build to succeed under intense playoff pressure).
Vast majority of regular season games are played at a pathetic level of intensity by most players.[/QUOTE]
Dirk is a PF who scores consistently from 18 feet out and the Mavs had no low post threat...so why do the Bulls need what the Mavs didn't?
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Re: Did the Bulls overachieve last regular season? Phil Jackson thinks so
[quote=Go Getter]Dirk is a PF who scores consistently from 18 feet out and the Mavs had no low post threat...so why do the Bulls need what the Mavs didn't?[/quote]
Yeah cos Booze isn't Dirk. :confusedshrug:
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Re: Did the Bulls overachieve last regular season? Phil Jackson thinks so
[QUOTE=Go Getter]Defense is more important than offense point blank.
The Celtics, Bulls, Spurs, Pistons, etc...all their great teams revolved around defense.
D Howard is a better player than Dirk (That's a better comparison).
Only when Dirk had help at forward (Tyson/Marion) that played good d did he win a championship. It's not a coincidence. When the Mavs got better defensively (and their comp got old) they won.
You have no proof that more players get hurt on defense. Idk where you get that bullshit from.[/QUOTE]
but they also have a top 10 offense to go along with defense. Actually the average offensive rating and defensive rating of the past champions is 5th for defense and 6th for offense so yeah keep dreaming like you dont need offense coz your team will fail in the end. The reason why defense is higher because its harder to play offense.
And LOL at howard being better than dirk. You act like dirk is just becomes better this year when this guy just consistently won 50+ wins in his career. And has been to the finals twice and if wade wasnt gifted 30+ fts, he would have 2 chips by now.
Well why dont you just look at the center position if you want proof of playing defense=injuries. Noah, bynum, perkins, oden, yao, nene, shaq, etc. are all injury prones. And there are other centers too.