Does Any Perimeter Player in History Approach Peak MJ from 1988-1993?

[QUOTE=dankok8;14266549]Yea... As far as perimeter players only are concerned I consider MJ on his own tier as far as peaks. Lebron may be the closest but he's still a good distance away. For me how do I decide tiers? For me the same tier is if I can see an argument for the other player. And in this comparison I can't see an argument for Lebron over MJ as a peak player. That doesn't mean the gap is huge but it's a clear gap.

You mentioned basic and advances stats and eye test...

Don't forget team impact. The 1991, 1992 Bulls (and also 1996 and 1997 but that wasn't MJ's peak) were much better offensively than any team Lebron ever played on. And it was basically Pippen and some good role players. It wasn't the Showtime Lakers type talent with Magic/Kareem/Worthy/Scott. Or the 80's Celtics with Bird/McHale/Parish/DJ or the 10's Heat with Lebron/Wade/Bosh/Allen or the 10's Warriors with KD/Curry/Klay/Green. Four 90's Bulls teams were top 20 all time in ORtg and that's despite playing in a more defensive era. And mind you MJ wasn't at the head of some gimmicky offense either that was sacrificing defense for offense like the SSOL Suns or Nellie's Mavs or something like that. The Bulls were a really good defensive team and a GOAT-level offensive team at the same time. And their offense completely fell apart without MJ. The Bulls went from one of the greatest offenses ever to below league average during his first retirement.[/QUOTE]


That's fair. But I'm curious what are your takes on similar situations with certain players. Like Barkley vs Malone. Magic vs Bird.

I would toss in Duncan vs KG, but maybe that peak is too close. But each one, there is probably a peak that is better than the other, but I don't really consider them to be outside of each other tiers.

I think most people would say that too tho. MJ as a peak player had an impact on the game and production that Lebron never reached, but close. The closest anyone has gotten for a perimeter player. We might disagree on how close it is tho. I remember in the 00s where ppl were proping Kobe to be that. But he wasn't, but he might've been just as skillful. LeBron isn't as skillful in terms of scoring arsenal but he's so dominant and smart that it makes up for it. Like for me personally, it just depends on the years. As you said, consecutively, MJ is more consistent at his prime. LeBron from 12-18 varies. Like RS he was the best in 12 and 13. But offensively he peaked in 16-18 in the POs. He has numbers that are definitely on the tier of MJ's best. But if you take MJ's best years in the PO...like 88-91, he's still produce better numbers imo. But since your criteria is from 88-93, with both the RS and POs, then LeBron isn't as good imo. But then you'll ultimately go subjective about the era, styles of play, defense, which performance is more impressive, etc and etc. To me it doesn't matter so much as the fact how well they dominated.

And okay look. Hahaha! Those teams with the Heat should've been number 1 offense. They never was. But they closest they came was 13. Where the difference between them and the Thunder was so small. I don't know if if I blame LeBron play style and impact more than the coach and the fit tho. I'm sure ppl thought, including me, they were gonn'a dominate the league like how the GSW did. They never did. MJ was more versatile on the offense than LeBron and with the triangle, they probably got the best of them. LeBron's best versatility was the best in 13, which made them 2nd best. Like you said, MJ was a large part of the Bulls offense. But so was LeBron to his teams obviously.

The answer is no

[SIZE=6][B][U]88-93 Jordan[/U][/B][/SIZE]
Kobe's Post Moves
Kobe's Footwork
Durant's Jumpshot
Wade's Slashing
Rose's Athleticism
Kawhi's Defense
Kawhi's Hands
Kawhi's Strength

[QUOTE=OrlandoMagicGuy;14266691]The answer is no

[SIZE=6][B][U]88-93 Jordan[/U][/B][/SIZE]
Kobe's Post Moves
Kobe's Footwork
Durant's Jumpshot
Wade's Slashing
Rose's Athleticism
Kawhi's Defense
Kawhi's Hands
Kawhi's Strength[/QUOTE]

lmfao I can't stand Kawhi, but that's a complete joke that an 88-93 Jordan has his strength.

[QUOTE=Smoke117;14266740]lmfao I can't stand Kawhi, but that's a complete joke that an 88-93 Jordan has his strength.[/QUOTE]
Robert Horry said he was strong for his size but you got a better comparison?

[QUOTE=OrlandoMagicGuy;14266691]The answer is no

[SIZE=6][B][U]88-93 Jordan[/U][/B][/SIZE]
Kobe's Post Moves
Kobe's Footwork
Durant's Jumpshot
Wade's Slashing
Rose's Athleticism
Kawhi's Defense
Kawhi's Hands
Kawhi's Strength[/QUOTE]

Ben Simmons' 3 point shooting

[QUOTE=TheGoatest;14266748]Ben Simmons' 3 point shooting[/QUOTE]

Trolololololol

[QUOTE=OrlandoMagicGuy;14266750]Trolololololol[/QUOTE]

Trurururururue

Then the shortened, pee-wee 3 point line came to Jordan's rescue. The one you could almost make a layup from:

[video=youtube;4yJWlz5ipTY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yJWlz5ipTY[/video]

[QUOTE=OrlandoMagicGuy;14266691]The answer is no

[SIZE=6][B][U]88-93 Jordan[/U][/B][/SIZE]
Kobe's Post Moves
Kobe's Footwork
Durant's Jumpshot
Wade's Slashing
Rose's Athleticism
Kawhi's Defense
Kawhi's Hands
Kawhi's Strength[/QUOTE]

Kawhi’s defense and strength. Lol. Jordan is a Poor mans Kawhi defensively. And about as strong as Kawhi after 4 weeks in a gulag.

[QUOTE=999Guy;14263437]why?[/QUOTE]

go watch his highlights from that year, also take a look at his team in 09 and get a giggle out if it.

that team don't win 18 games without him, they were terrible. Go watch his highlights vs a loaded atlanta hawks in their playoff series.

wade all season long was going through double and triple teams and playing 1st team all nba like defense while dropping 30 points on give or take 50% shooting on any given night.

[QUOTE=TheGoatest;14266748]Ben Simmons' 3 point shooting[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=TheGoatest;14266748]
Then the shortened, pee-wee 3 point line came to Jordan's rescue. The one you could almost make a layup from:

[video=youtube;4yJWlz5ipTY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yJWlz5ipTY[/video][/QUOTE]
Now tell me your King's % outside of the paint

[QUOTE=999Guy;14266807]Kawhi’s defense and strength. Lol. Jordan is a Poor mans Kawhi defensively. And about as strong as Kawhi after 4 weeks in a gulag.[/QUOTE]

Wizards Jordan shut down Vince Carter

Tim Grover was Jordan's trainer for 15 years

Peak MJ is the highest peak in NBA history, literally an almost perfect player.

From 1988 to 1992 Michael Jordan shot 30% from three making 0.4 threes per game and 36 threes per year.

That's Giannis level shooting. :lebronamazed:

[QUOTE=StrongLurk;14266941]Peak MJ is the highest peak in NBA history, literally an almost perfect player.[/QUOTE]

Wrong. Peak MJ was owned by the Detroit Pistons who beat him so badly that they literally forced him to build a gym in his home so he could toughen up.

The Pistons made peak MJ him cry multiple times.

[QUOTE=light;14266950]Wrong. Peak MJ was owned by the Detroit Pistons who beat him so badly that they literally forced him to build a gym in his home so he could toughen up.

The Pistons made peak MJ him cry multiple times.[/QUOTE]

[SIZE=5][B]Tim Grover[/B][/SIZE]

[IMG]https://wgnradio.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2017/12/mjred.jpeg?w=500[/IMG]

Re: 3pt shooting

From 1988-1993 in the playoffs MJ shot 35.7% from 2.3 attempts per game and in the finals he shot 42.1% from 3.4 attempts per game. And that's all with a normal 3pt line. It's not the kind of % in the playoffs that would make you think of him as a sharpshooter but it's definitely not a weakness. And there is a definite trend that when he took more 3's he also shot them better. At the end of the day we'll never know how good he would be as a 3pt shooter today. And it doesn't really matter either... You can only analyze players within their own eras anyways.