what is up with this TWA 800 thing that looks like it may have gotten blown out of the sky in 1996? was the idea that it was a terrorist event deliberately quieted by govt?
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what is up with this TWA 800 thing that looks like it may have gotten blown out of the sky in 1996? was the idea that it was a terrorist event deliberately quieted by govt?
Where's Kevin?
[QUOTE=longhornfan1234]Where's Kevin?[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-fDUAdpxG-vo/TwMVJN7ZbiI/AAAAAAAAB-4/Y296zk6bJ1k/s1600/Home+Alone+1990+-+Catherine+O%2527Hara+screams.jpg[/IMG]
if you need kevinNYC to waltz in and patiently explain a shitload of stuff... meh, good luck with that.
[QUOTE=gigantes]if you need kevinNYC to waltz in and patiently explain a shitload of stuff... meh, good luck with that.[/QUOTE]
nobody "needs kevinnyc to patiently explain a shitload of stuff"
but you have to admit its a little bit funny that he abandoned his baby (this thread)
anyway, here is my contribution to this thread for today: [URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Ibc6QSV5ftw#t=17s"]obama - if you cant trust us, were going to have some problems[/URL]
Stock market looking on point today
:roll:
[QUOTE=Nanners]nobody "needs kevinnyc to patiently explain a shitload of stuff"
but you have to admit its a little bit funny that he abandoned his baby (this thread)
anyway, here is my contribution to this thread for today: [URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Ibc6QSV5ftw#t=17s"]obama - if you cant trust us, were going to have some problems[/URL][/QUOTE]
well i forgot that you and kevin have whatever going on. also that you are way more invested in this thread and these issues than i am. in fact have worked your ass off from what i've seen, while i showed up from an after-workout party and was just as flippant as i felt like being.
but beyond being an idiot, what i was getting at was that this whole thing is like the tip of an iceberg to me, and perhaps to the kevins of the world as well. what is the motivation to try covering / debating about 15 million different factors with internet peeps in order to form something resembling an informed opinion on this NSA iceberg? i just don't know.
Well he was considered the resident member of the Obama internet cult and damage control team.
[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=kgXi95f_UoM"]"no more illegal wiretapping of american citizens"[/URL] - Barack Obama in 2007
what i ask of the president is that he's highly competent, talented, and open to change. obama was not amongst my first couple of choices, but he's generally met the requirements IMO.
the world is changing very rapidly and this NSA thing was fairly predictable IMO. nevertheless our info-gathering approach, as objectionable as it is to so many, is almost certainly a far more balanced and democratic approach than other super-countries such as china or russia take in the matter. there are little or no rights issues in those cases. if they rear up in any way, they're typically crushed. orders come down from the top and they are followed without resistance, although i'm sure the efficiency varies.
anyway, what is the point of impeaching obama with the eventual hope of removing him? in his place you likely get another person who has to follow the exact same laws of reality that he does, but who you've now forced in to doing it more circuitously, deceitfully, forcefully, or whatever. and that's assuming it's someone who's even competent at the job!
i think it's possible to get drunk on citizens rights over time and forget that reality and nature still operate as they always do. the sacred concept of the USA is all very well and good on paper and by tradition, but it's already been falling apart in many ways even before this NSA thing came down. we were already precariously keeping afloat in many ways, such as in terms of cyber-security defenses. not that this is the same issue, but there's overlap in my mind.
haha, overlap lubricated by boredom, irritation, and a big glass of green tea spiked with some tequila. :lol
[QUOTE=gigantes]
the world is changing very rapidly and this NSA thing was fairly predictable IMO. nevertheless our info-gathering approach, as objectionable as it is to so many, is almost certainly a far more balanced and democratic approach than other super-countries such as china or russia take in the matter. there are little or no rights issues in those cases. if they rear up in any way, they're typically crushed. orders come down from the top and they are followed without resistance, although i'm sure the efficiency varies.
[/quote]
I dont buy this line of logic at all. There is nothing about the modern world that requires us to throw away our rights. You spend a lot of time talking about the the "reality" we live in, so lets go over the truth about "reality" for a minute.
For Americans, the "reality" is that the chance of dying in a terror attack is less than dying due to being hit by lightning, or getting crushed by a vending machine. The "reality" is that terrorism is not a good enough reason to throw away our rights.
Russia and China may not have the best approach to human rights, but that certainly doesnt mean we should all just sit back and quietly accept the US govt trampling all over the rights of Americans. Are you really implying that americans should sit there quietly until things get worse than they are in China?
[quote]
anyway, what is the point of impeaching obama with the eventual hope of removing him? in his place you likely get another person who has to follow the exact same laws of reality that he does, but who you've now forced in to doing it more circuitously, deceitfully, forcefully, or whatever. and that's assuming it's someone who's even competent at the job!
[/quote]
Completely disagree that what Obama is doing is "following the laws of reality"
[quote]
i think it's possible to get drunk on citizens rights over time and forget that reality and nature still operate as they always do. the sacred concept of the USA is all very well and good on paper and by tradition, but it's already been falling apart in many ways even before this NSA thing came down. we were already precariously keeping afloat in many ways, such as in terms of cyber-security defenses. not that this is the same issue, but there's overlap in my mind.[/quote]
Strongly disagree that "Its possible to get drunk on citizens rights"... so everyone should forget that the 4th amendment exists?
One of the main reasons the "sacred concept of the USA is falling apart" is because of people with your exact attitude. People who dont really care that the USA is trampling all over the human rights of practically every person on this planet (and the constitutional rights of practically every american)
edits: trying to clean up my jumbled nonsense
because of people with my attitude? really?
well alrighty then. now we know!
NSA spying program is justified as protecting america from terrorists, and many people (KevinNYC, gigantes apparently...) accept this justification without much thought.
The reality of these programs is that they have absolutely nothing to do with "terrorism". The reality is that intelligence infrastructure like PRISM and Fusion centers has been built with the purpose of monitoring and controlling political dissident groups like occupy, right-wing millitias, and environmental activists.
It is important to note that these tools are not to protect the "government" from activists. These tools have actually been put in place to protect the private interests that control of the government - corporations like Bank of America and Monsanto that are increasingly afraid of massive citizen backlash.
Dissent or Terror: How Arizona's Counter Terrorism Apparatus, in Partnership with Corporate Interests, Turned on Occupy Phoenix - [url]http://www.prwatch.org/node/12112[/url]
Fusion Center Obsession With OWS: Monitoring Jesse Jackson, NDAA Protestors and Anything Else Deemed To Be a Threat - [url]http://www.prwatch.org/node/12123[/url]
Operation Tripwire -- the FBI, the Private Sector, and the Monitoring of Occupy Wall Street - [url]http://www.prwatch.org/node/11924[/url]
Surprised that no one is talking about DOMA getting shot down in the Supreme Court.
I think it is funny that the peoples champion of the democratic party aka Bill Clinton signed DOMA into law in the first place.