I have seen some pretty ridiculous comments about the legacy of Hakeem on ISH lately, especially the GOAT centre thread. Does anyone else think he is rapidly becoming overrated on ISH?
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I have seen some pretty ridiculous comments about the legacy of Hakeem on ISH lately, especially the GOAT centre thread. Does anyone else think he is rapidly becoming overrated on ISH?
[QUOTE=Manute for Ever!]I have seen some pretty ridiculous comments about the legacy of Hakeem on ISH lately, especially the GOAT centre thread. Does anyone else think he is rapidly becoming overrated on ISH?[/QUOTE]
Extremely.
Yes.
No. He is the most talented big men of all time. And Is top 3 center of all time IMO
Good, so I'm not completely crazy.
most of the people on this board are probably not even old enough to even make comments about Hakeem. If all you have seen of Hakeem is youtube videos then you got no right to comment on Hakeem.
I hate ranking players by a number or whatever. I much rather a Tier system, and Hakeem is in that top tier of great centres of all time.
[QUOTE=Cosmonaut]
I hate ranking players by a number or whatever. I much rather a Tier system, and Hakeem is in that top tier of great centres of all time.[/QUOTE]
Definitely agree with that :cheers:
You are confusing Hakeem with Kobe.
No, Hakeem is not overrated here. Bill Russell defintley is and Wilt probably is as well(due to his early stats).
no .. but shaq>hakeem
Wilt>Kareem>Russel>Hakeem>Shaq.
kareem>wilt>russel>shaq>hakeem
in career achievement wise
When people started putting Hakeem in the same category as Wilt and Kareem, he became overrated. He is clearly on an entire tier below them.
He's a top 10 player of all time.
The Most Skilled Center in NBA History.
[QUOTE=East River Livn']When people started putting Hakeem in the same category as Wilt and Kareem, he became overrated. He is clearly on an entire tier below them.[/QUOTE]
Exactly. Revisionism. Hakeem was never considered that great (GOAT level) when he was playing. This internet thing is mostly by people who never saw him play.
Of the top 5 centers ever, Olajuwon is the only who did not win an MVP before he was 30.
Goat center? No way. He did not dominate his own era like Shaq, Wilt or Kareem.
[QUOTE=Maniak]Wilt>Kareem>Russel>Hakeem>Shaq.[/QUOTE]
Wilt>Kareem>Russell>Shaq>Olajuwon
[QUOTE=lakers_forever]Wilt>Kareem>Russell>Shaq>Olajuwon[/QUOTE]
Man Russell is overrated. He was an average offensive player. His best scoring season adjusts to less than 14 ppg with 40 mpg in the current NBA. Do Ben Wallace and Dikembe Mutombo get credit for dominating the defensive end?
There's no way Russell was better than Shaq or Olajuwon. And there's no way Wilt ranks above Kareem either.
[QUOTE=ShaqAttack3234]Man Russell is overrated. He was an average offensive player. His best scoring season adjusts to less than 14 ppg with 40 mpg in the current NBA. Do Ben Wallace and Dikembe Mutombo get credit for dominating the defensive end?
There's no way Russell was better than Shaq or Olajuwon. And there's no way Wilt ranks above Kareem either.[/QUOTE]
This arguement has the same sh!t every time.
11 rings, then some ******* says "LOL WELL HORRY>MJ THEN LOL", then they argue with 10 pages of useless garbage, doing nothing but upping post count and rep.
Its the insidehoops rat race of misery.
[QUOTE=Maniak]This arguement has the same sh!t every time.
11 rings, then some ******* says "LOL WELL HORRY>MJ THEN LOL", then they argue with 10 pages of useless garbage, doing nothing but upping post count and rep.
Its the insidehoops rat race of misery.[/QUOTE]
Who the f*ck cares about 11 rings? Russell played on a STACKED team often with 3 or 4 hall of famers in their prime at the same time in a league with 1/4 the teams that are in the league today. He was great at one end and he was average at another end. That doesn't put him ahead of Shaq or Hakeem.
:applause: towards this thread...It really needed to be made. Some of the bs being said need to be checked. Even heard people saying he had an arguement for GOAT center...
[QUOTE=ShaqAttack3234]Man Russell is overrated. He was an average offensive player. His best scoring season adjusts to less than 14 ppg with 40 mpg in the current NBA. Do Ben Wallace and Dikembe Mutombo get credit for dominating the defensive end?[/QUOTE]
He is not overrated. He was the leader of a team who won 11 titles. After he retired, his team missed the playoffs. He led a inferior team to beat a Laker team with Baylor, West and Wilt in 1969.
[QUOTE=ShaqAttack3234]He was an average offensive player[/QUOTE]
Maybe, but his team did not need offense. He did what was needed to win titles. Leadership and defense. He was arguably the best defender ever and second best rebounder ever. He was miles ahead of Ben Wallace or Mutombo.
[QUOTE=ShaqAttack3234]Do Ben Wallace and Dikembe Mutombo get credit for dominating the defensive end?[/QUOTE]
No. I guess it's maybe their were not the defensive anchor of a 11 time winning team. :violin:
[QUOTE=ShaqAttack3234]And there's no way Wilt ranks above Kareem either.[/QUOTE]
It's a toss up between them. Two monsters. When you say there's no way one is ahead of the other, you lost credibility.
[QUOTE=Manute for Ever!]I have seen some pretty ridiculous comments about the legacy of Hakeem on ISH lately, especially the GOAT centre thread. Does anyone else think he is rapidly becoming overrated on ISH?[/QUOTE]
Absolutely yes
[QUOTE=ShaqAttack3234]Who the f*ck cares about 11 rings? Russell played on a STACKED team often with 3 or 4 hall of famers in their prime at the same time in a league with 1/4 the teams that are in the league today. He was great at one end and he was average at another end. That doesn't put him ahead of Shaq or Hakeem.[/QUOTE]
We know.
You say this every thread you go into. STFU.
[QUOTE=lakers_forever]He is not overrated. He was the leader of a team who won 11 titles. After he retired, his team missed the playoffs. He led a inferior team to beat a Laker team with Baylor, West and Wilt in 1969.[/QUOTE]
Sam Jones, another key member of 10 of those 11 championship teams also retired in 1969. That obviously had something to do with the dropoff.
[QUOTE]Maybe, but his team did not need offense. He did what was needed to win titles. Leadership and defense. He was arguably the best defender ever and second best rebounder ever. He was miles ahead of Ben Wallace or Mutombo.[/QUOTE]
Yes, he was arguably the best defender ever, but so is Hakeem Olajuwon and he's miles ahead of Russell offensively. The team didn't need offense because they were loaded with talent.
[QUOTE]No. I guess it's maybe their were not the defensive anchor of a 11 time winning team. :violin:[/QUOTE]
Neither had the luxuary of playing with 3 or 4 all-star level players at a time in a league with 1/4 the amount of teams. Wallace did anchor a Pistons team that won 5 straight seasons, made 4 straight ECF, won a championship, were one game away from repeating as champions and a team that won 64 games one year. After that he even led a young Bulls team to nearly 50 wins and the 2nd round. In that time he won 4 defensive player of the year awards and became one of only 5 players to lead the league in blocks and rebounds in the same season.
Obviously Russell is miles ahead of Wallace, but if dominating defensively was as important as some make it out to be then Wallace wouldn't be a borderline hall of famer at best. The fact is that players like that need a lot of good offensive players around them. Players like Hakeem however don't, they can carry a team. Russell couldn't do that.
[QUOTE]It's a toss up between them. Two monsters. When you say there's no way one is ahead of the other, you lost credibility.[/QUOTE]
No, Kareem is defintley the best center ever. 6 championships, superior longevity to anyone, comparable prime, much less selfish than Wilt or Shaq, you name it and Kareem has the advantage. Kareem is the only player with type of good case for being better than Jordan all time.
[QUOTE=Maniak]We know.
You say this every thread you go into. STFU.[/QUOTE]
And nobody comes up with a good argument against.
i hate the arguement about bill russell not being able to score in college he averaged 20/20 and more. he's like dennis rodman, averaged 26 points in college, they both could score but they both did what they needed for their team.
Russell could not score at an all-star level. 20/20 with the pace of his college days is a lot different than 20/20 now.
[QUOTE]And nobody comes up with a good argument against.
[/QUOTE]
:rolleyes:
You are so agenda driven, its just sick.
Overall:
Kareem --> Wilt --> Russell --> Shaq --> Olajuwon (Depending on my bball mood I interchange Kareem and Wilt hehe)
Overall IMO = playing ability, career achievements, legacy, innovation and impact on the game. For me that last part has always propelled Russell above Hakeem and Shaq, Russell basically caused a paradigm shift in the game of basketball.
Peak playing ability:
Wilt --> Kareem --> Shaq --> Olajuwon --> Russell(?)
[QUOTE=lakers_forever]No. I guess it's maybe their were not the defensive anchor of a 11 time winning team. [/QUOTE]
Okay, but Ben Wallace was the defensive anchor of a 1-time winning team, which is 1 more championship than a lot of HOFers/future HOFers and an amazing accomplishment in itself. So why wouldn't he get the same recognition?
ShaqAttack makes a lotta good points, which is why I don't even know if Russell is top 5 in peak ability because of his sore lack of offensive game...
[QUOTE=SAKOTXA]No. He is the most talented big men of all time. And Is top 3 center of all time IMO[/QUOTE]
And how much of his career did you see?
[QUOTE=Maniak]:rolleyes:
You are so agenda driven, its just sick.[/QUOTE]
Nope, I have no agenda at all. You're just a f*cking retard. I question why people rank Russell so high because no other defensive specialist is ranked that high and nobody gives me a good answer. People only rank Russell that high because they think they're supposed to. The 11 championships excuse is bullsh*t because why aren't Sam Jones, John Havlicek, Bob Cousy, Tom Heinsohn ect. ranked higher? I'm sorry I'm not stupid enough to just rank someone highly because I'm supposed. I'll give Russell a ranking in the lower part of the top 10 players of all time, but any higher is absurd when you think about it.
[QUOTE=ShaqAttack3234]You're just a f*cking retard. .[/QUOTE]
I concur with this powerful statement, but I disagree with your Russell being overrated statement, but I don't feel like arguing for Russell at the moment.
[QUOTE=TheAnchorman]Overall:
Kareem --> Wilt --> Russell --> Shaq --> Olajuwon (Depending on my bball mood I interchange Kareem and Wilt hehe)
Overall IMO = playing ability, career achievements, legacy, innovation and impact on the game. For me that last part has always propelled Russell above Hakeem and Shaq, Russell basically caused a paradigm shift in the game of basketball.
Peak playing ability:
Wilt --> Kareem --> Shaq --> Olajuwon --> Russell(?)
I can agree with that.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=TheAnchorman]Okay, but Ben Wallace was the defensive anchor of a 1-time winning team, which is 1 more championship than a lot of HOFers/future HOFers and an amazing accomplishment in itself. So why wouldn't he get the same recognition?[/QUOTE]
Same recognition, no. He was an inferior rebounder, defender, passer, shotblocker... He was not close to Bill Russell as a basketball player. And 1 is not 11.
He definetly has a significance chance of getting to the hall of fame. Although I must say that IMHO, even Dennis Rodman was better than him.
From what I've seen Hakeem has turned into the most over rated player ever, and Karl Malone has become the most under rated.
[QUOTE=ShaqAttack3234] People only rank Russell that high because they think they're supposed to. The 11 championships excuse is bullsh*t because why aren't Sam Jones, John Havlicek, Bob Cousy, Tom Heinsohn ect. ranked higher? [/QUOTE]
Can you explain me why Sam Jones, Havlicek, Cousy and Heinsohn were not the ones winning multiple MVP's?? You know, when the players themselves voted for MVP, Bill Russell won it 5 times. I guess that were only voting for Bill Russell because they were supposed to. :violin:
I wouldn't be mad if people rank Hakeem #1. After all, he's up there with the big boys and add a couple of nostalgia here and there, we can understand why people would rank him there. One of the finest center indeed.
[QUOTE=Maniak]Wilt>Kareem>Russel>Hakeem>Shaq.[/QUOTE]
This
One thread by an obvious idiot doesn't make a guy overrated.
[QUOTE=lakers_forever]Can you explain me why Sam Jones, Havlicek, Cousy and Heinsohn were not the ones winning multiple MVP's?? You know, when the players themselves voted for MVP, Bill Russell won it 5 times. I guess that were only voting for Bill Russell because they were supposed to. :violin:[/QUOTE]
Bill Russell is indeed one of the greatest player.
[QUOTE=wang4three]One thread by an obvious idiot doesn't make a guy overrated.[/QUOTE]
He is.
You have people saying stupid things like is the GOAT center. If Hakeem Olajuwon is better than Kareem Abdul Jabbar and Wilt Chamberlain, he is arguably the greatest player ever. Do you see how stupid that is??
The GOAT center could not win a MVP before he was 30. The GOAT center did not make the first team when he was 27,28 or 29. Please... And you have several people ranking him as the top Center ever or saying there's no problem in ranking him first, yes there is. His career has absolutely nothing over guys like Wilt and Kareem. He is clearly overrated not only in ISH, but on most online forums.
No one voted for Olajuwon at first place and he had only one vote for second place:
[url]http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime?page=dailydime-GreatestCenters[/url]
[QUOTE=SAKOTXA]No. He is the most talented big men of all time. And Is top 3 center of all time IMO[/QUOTE]In my opinion, Kareem, Wilt and Russell are all higher on the All Time List
Robert Horry played with Hakeem, shaq and duncan and when asked who was the best he said.............................the Nigerian Nightmare