[B]Reggie Miller[/B] was voted the #60 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops.
18.2 PPG | 3 RPG | 3 APG
5
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[B]Reggie Miller[/B] was voted the #60 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops.
18.2 PPG | 3 RPG | 3 APG
5
[IMG]http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mble079JSZ1rhbk5oo1_500.gif[/IMG]
Heh...
I guess I vote for Flareon
Pau
[QUOTE=SourPatchKids][IMG]http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mble079JSZ1rhbk5oo1_500.gif[/IMG]
Heh...
I guess I vote for Flareon[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Vtcj9xyfzpo/TE2jVqQkaVI/AAAAAAAAAMo/DzK4qAQ_Q2g/s1600/t-maccelebrates.jpg[/IMG]
Clearly you meant T-Mac.
T-Mac:pimp:
Tony Parker
[QUOTE=coin24]Pau[/QUOTE]
Lucas, Maravich, Greer, and Johnston should get in before Pau imo.
Pau Gasol
Jerry Lucas.
[B]Pau Gasol[/B]
[IMG]http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.179239!/img/httpImage/image.jpg[/IMG]
-2x NBA Champion (2009, 2010)
-Led 2010 Lakers to the championship as the best player
-4 x NBA Allstar
-18.7 PPG, 9.2 RPG 3.2 APG career numbers
-3 All NBA teams
-Two silver medals as the best player
-One of the most skilled bigmen of all-time
-Made the cover of the NBA video game in Spain
[img]http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6y1vpYZBL1r9651j.gif[/img]
jezza lucas
T-Mac
Jerry Lucas
I vote for:
[img]http://www.officialpsds.com/images/thumbs/Pistol-Pete-Maravich-psd23608.png[/img]
Jerry Lucas
Now that that laughable excuse for an all time great is out of the way...lets watch 36 straight better players get voted in.
If a couple third teams and 5 all star games for someone who never won anything is enough to get in....Hal greer with like 7 second teams and 10 all star games...and a title doing Kobe numbers....has to be getting votes.
And ive been doing some reading of articles from the time on Pistol Pete and Lou Hudson. Some of the things said about and by Pete almost seem like a joke.
Dude was literally playing flashy for flashys sake, admitted to taking 40 foot pullup jumpers because he felt he had the hot hand, and predicted there might never be another chest pass again by the late 70s. Compared his style over substance approach to people who thought the jumper would never replace the set shot.
Meanwhile his own fans boo him, his teammates want him gone, his coach said things like:
"He's got to discipline himself to the obligations of a guard," says [URL="http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/topic/article/Richie_Guerin/1900-01-01/2100-12-31/mdd/index.htm"][COLOR=#cc0000]Guerin[/COLOR][/URL]. "He's got a responsibility in that position to do things I want him to and not just dribble around. He's got to work plays."
And another coach later suspended him partly because he pissed off a teammate he elbowed in the nose during a scuffle over a call he didnt like.
He was pretty much Tmac only even less healthy, scoring less even though he took 28 shots a game one season, turning the ball over more than just about any guard ever, and winning less while pissing off teammates more.
But no doubt...he was a talent. Just not one id want on my team. Reggie Miller may be overrated but....id take him on my team.
Jerry Lucas
[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]that laughable excuse for an all time great [/QUOTE]
[img]http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/1171687/kgface.gif[/img]
That "laughable excuse for an all-time great" would instead more often than not in the clutch & playoffs turn 99.99% of the players who you think were better than him to laughable excuses of all-time greats instead and turn YOU into a laughable excuse of a poster.... and then he would continue to do so the next 20 years while your supposed "better player" has retired and is now commentating that guys game...
[quote]If a couple third teams and 5 all star games for someone who never won anything is enough to get in....Hal greer with like 7 second teams and 10 all star games...and a title doing Kobe numbers....has to be getting votes.
[/quote]
You didnt say something like that when Durant got in? (who actually didnt have a better legacy than Reggie yet)
With any other player i can agree with you, but with Reggie? Absolutely not... His career was very aesthetical & essential... His longevity, specific intangibles, killer instinct, moments, clutch productions, shooting, consistency, performance in the playoffs and so on for 18 years and what he did with what he had to work with and what competition he had to face (or the fact that he didnt ring chase being loyal to a scrub team and scrub franchise his entire career) is not something an All-Star selection or All-nba team can measure.... A Legacy & a Hall of Fame career for that type of "Laughable excuse for an all-time great" is more than just all-star selections etc... This is why ranking somebody like Reggie is very hard when you havent witnessed him...
You can find maybe 100 players who got more impressive combined all-star / all-nba team selections than Reggie... what defined Reggies career is more signifacant than simply that...
Im fine with blowing him out of Top 50 all-time or even top 60 all-time.... but then calling him also "laughable excuse for an all-time great" once he finally gets IN there somewhere is taking it to far... and you know it Kblaze..
[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]Now that that laughable excuse for an all time great is out of the way...lets watch 36 straight better players get voted in.
If a couple third teams and 5 all star games for someone who never won anything is enough to get in....Hal greer with like 7 second teams and 10 all star games...and a title doing Kobe numbers....has to be getting votes.
And ive been doing some reading of articles from the time on Pistol Pete and Lou Hudson. Some of the things said about and by Pete almost seem like a joke.
Dude was literally playing flashy for flashys sake, admitted to taking 40 foot pullup jumpers because he felt he had the hot hand, and predicted there might never be another chest pass again by the late 70s. Compared his style over substance approach to people who thought the jumper would never replace the set shot.
Meanwhile his own fans boo him, his teammates want him gone, his coach said things like:
"He's got to discipline himself to the obligations of a guard," says [URL="http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/topic/article/Richie_Guerin/1900-01-01/2100-12-31/mdd/index.htm"][COLOR=#cc0000]Guerin[/COLOR][/URL]. "He's got a responsibility in that position to do things I want him to and not just dribble around. He's got to work plays."
And another coach later suspended him partly because he pissed off a teammate he elbowed in the nose during a scuffle over a call he didnt like.
He was pretty much Tmac only even less healthy, scoring less even though he took 28 shots a game one season, turning the ball over more than just about any guard ever, and winning less while pissing off teammates more.
But no doubt...he was a talent. Just not one id want on my team. Reggie Miller may be overrated but....id take him on my team.[/QUOTE]
Didn't you're Mother ever tell teach you tat if you can't say anything nice don't say anything at all? It's like you're going all Moses on every Golden Calf the people have.
I have to agree with you on Maravich though, Guerin wasn't the only coach he had who was critical of Pete's style of play. That was pretty early in his career however and he did corral his own style as time went on. But usually that only lasted a little while and he reverted to old habits. Here's some link's I found a few years back.
[URL="http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=DrIiAAAAIBAJ&sjid=RbMFAAAAIBAJ&pg=5574,2023401&dq=pete+maravich+too+flashy&hl=en"]The Pistol is Silent[/URL]
[URL="http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=7UcxAAAAIBAJ&sjid=DUQDAAAAIBAJ&pg=7036,2977208&dq=pete+maravich+too+flashy&hl=en"]Cotton on Pistol[/URL]
[URL="http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=0J8oAAAAIBAJ&sjid=8ygEAAAAIBAJ&pg=7351,4678275&dq=pete+maravich+problem&hl=en"]Pete Fires Backs[/URL]
Pete on Jazz GM Lewis Schaffel
[QUOTE=Pete Maravich]Schaffel cons everybody, but people are starting to wake up. If they trade anyone it ought to be him. If he would take a long vacation to Iraq we might even be in the playoffs.[/QUOTE]
[URL="http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=UPhVAAAAIBAJ&sjid=6OEDAAAAIBAJ&pg=5469,5657009&dq=pete+maravich+problem&hl=en"]link[/URL]
[QUOTE=Sports Illustrated, 1978]The guys who figure the odds in Vegas put it another way, in effect stating the bottom line on Pete Maravich: Never bet on the Jazz...but never bet against them.
This explains something else. In basketball, as in other sports, certain media favorites automatically become "the franchise." This usually is applied to a large, dominating center. This usage is incorrect. There is only one franchise unto himself in all of sport. He is Pete Maravich. There are 21 teams in the NBA and one Pete Maravich.
A league executive says, " Bill Walton used to think of himself as a Trail Blazer. Kareem thinks of himself as a Laker. Doctor J thinks of himself as a 76er. But Pete Maravich knows he's bigger than the Jazz. Pete thinks he's Smokey Robinson and the rest of the Jazz are the Miracles. The problem is that he's right."
Nobody ever questioned the obvious gifts of an Ernie Banks or an O. J. Simpson, despite the fact that their teams, like Maravich's, never won anything when they played for them. In his own sphere of basketball, Maravich's historical rivals at guard—West and Robertson—similarly were regarded as geniuses and held blameless even though they never played on a pro championship team until they joined forces with powerful centers late in their careers.
But Pistol Pete? In seven seasons in the NBA and most of an eighth, Maravich has, at one time or another, led the league in scoring, led all guards in rebounding and made the All-Star team four times. But he has played on only one team that won more games than it lost. And in Maravich's case—unlike West's or Robertson's—critics have in part blamed him. Much of the time, they say, he has disdained team play, avoided the defensive end and relentlessly pursued individual scoring statistics to the point where he now has figured out just how many cranks of his right arm he can get away with before it falls off.
Nevertheless, Maravich's native skills and marvelous creativity have made him a legend in the NBA. Marv Roberts, a veteran of the American Basketball Association, expressed this best at a game in Los Angeles two seasons ago, in the first year of the merger. At the time Maravich was scalding on all burners, throwing baskets in from everywhere as a wide-eyed Roberts sat on the Laker bench, witnessing for the first time this amazing player he had heard so much about but had never seen. Finally Roberts could contain himself no longer. As the Pistol concluded the quarter by razzling and dazzling and hurling in still another 25-footer, Roberts leaped from the bench, waved both arms at Maravich and shouted, "I sees ya, Pete! I sees ya!"[/QUOTE]
[quote]That "laughable excuse for an all-time great" would instead more often than not in the clutch & playoffs turn 99.99% of the players who you think were better than him to laughable excuses of all-time greats instead and turn YOU into a laughable excuse of a poster.... and then he would continue to do so the next 20 years while your supposed "better player" has retired and is now commentating that guys game...[/quote]
Yes...he came through so often in the clutch and playoffs he lost 19 years in a row. He sure showed me whats what.
And its not me who gets banned now and then and has to create alternate names. There is a reason you would be one of the first people voted out of here and it isnt people hating Lebron.
[quote]
[B][B]You didnt say something like that when Durant got in? (who actually didnt have a better legacy than Reggie yet[/B])
With any other player i can agree with you, but with Reggie? Absolutely not... His career was very aesthetical & essential... His longevity, specific intangibles, killer instinct, moments, clutch productions, shooting, consistency, performance in the playoffs and so on for 18 years and what he did with what he had to work with and what competition he had to face (or the fact that he didnt ring chase being loyal to a scrub team and scrub franchise his entire career) is not something an All-Star selection or All-nba team can measure.... A Legacy & a Hall of Fame career for that type of "Laughable excuse for an all-time great" is more than just all-star selections etc... This is why ranking somebody like Reggie is very hard when you havent witnessed him...
You can find maybe 100 players who got more impressive combined all-star / all-nba team selections than Reggie... what defined Reggies career is more signifacant than simply that...
Im fine with blowing him out of Top 50 all-time or even top 60 all-time....[B] but then calling him also "laughable excuse for an all-time great" once he finally gets IN there somewhere is taking it to far... and you know it Kblaze..[/B]
[/B][/quote][B]
[B]There is a very key difference between Durant and Reggie. And most of these guys and Reggie really.[/B]
[B]And its a difference you and most people can see and make very obvious on places like this.[/B]
[B]Wilt chamberlain...led two title teams and 6 teams to the finals. Widely(then and now) considered a loser and poor playoff performer. [/B]
[B]Karl/Barkley/Ewing.....all led finals teams and multiple great teams who you had to take serious as a contender. All played the game on an elite level in their leagues. To a man...all considered losers and playoff choke artists to some degree. Reggie achieved nothing they did not.[/B]
[B]Reggie...led some conference finals team and then made the finals and lost...played worse than Karl/Barkley/Ewing could get away with before pulling it together....lost all but 1 big series for 19 years.[/B]
[B]Wilt is an elite player...so hes judged on a higher level...so his multiple rings and 6 finals lets people call him a loser fair or not.[/B]
[B]Karl/Barkley/Ewing...all time greats...so them losing in the finals and bowing out before then 10-15 times...gives people reason to call them losers.[/B]
[B]Reggie however....is not elite like wilt. Hes not all time great like Karl.[/B]
[B]Reggie is...good. So...him doing similar to or less than them....doesnt matter. They are on the elite and great scale...doing what Reggie got done makes them losers.[/B]
[B]Reggie is good...doing what others are called losers for...gets him called clutch and a playoff performer.[/B]
[B]And there is exactly why Reggie isnt an all time great. All time greats who have Reggies career are laughed at. Karl Malone might be overrated....but hes great...so hes a joke for all time over winning more than Reggie did. Reggie is good...so hes a winner/clutch performer forever. For getting as far as Paul westphal.[/B]
[B]Wilt has reggies career hes the biggest joke ever.[/B]
[B]Karl has it he would be mocked more than he already is having had a better one than Reggie.[/B]
[B]Reggie has it...its impressive...because he isnt that good. He never was one of the games best players. There might be 6 people in so far that can be said about....and they have 22 rings between them so they get the champion bump.[/B]
[B]Reggie is on the list of non elites on this list....but he doesnt have what got them rest of them here.[/B]
[B]But hes not on their scale.[/B]
[B]Reggie is good...so his career makes him impressive and clutch.[/B]
[B]Karl Malone is great...so his better career makes him the anti clutch to many.[/B]
[B]Its the difference between Lebron James and Chauncey Billups.[/B]
[B]One is expected to do more so the one who plays worse in the playoffs gets the "Mr.Big shot" label and the other is considered a loser for 8 years.[/B]
[B]Worse players get praised for worse play. And reggie....gets the most praise of anyone to play as poorly as he did(relative to these others).[/B]
[B]Shows where people really consider him.[/B]
[B]Far as this:[/B]
[quote]
Didn't you're Mother ever tell teach you tat if you can't say anything nice don't say anything at all? It's like you're going all Moses on every Golden Calf the people have.
[/quote]
The people for the most part believe in the opinion they are assigned. If nobody tells you the golden Calf has no power some people are dumb enough to go along with it.
I was always one to ask for more.
Dont tell me ____ is ____. Explain why. If you cant....stop saying it to me. Seems fair.[/B]
Couldnt tell you where all that bold came from.
Kblaze laying the smackdown on ISH:bowdown:
Still all these Pau votes though:rant
[QUOTE=MiamiThrice][B]Pau Gasol[/B]
[IMG]http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.179239!/img/httpImage/image.jpg[/IMG]
-2x NBA Champion (2009, 2010)
-Led 2010 Lakers to the championship as the best player
-4 x NBA Allstar
-18.7 PPG, 9.2 RPG 3.2 APG career numbers
-3 All NBA teams
-Two silver medals as the best player
-One of the most skilled bigmen of all-time
[B]-Made the cover of the NBA video game in Spain[/B][/QUOTE]
That should heavily tip the scales in his favor. All of you who didn't vote for Gasol, go back and change your vote now. He made the cover of an NBA video game in Spain. It's time to recognize his greatness.
[QUOTE=KG215]That should heavily tip the scales in his favor. All of you who didn't vote for Gasol, go back and change your vote now. He made the cover of an NBA video game in Spain. It's time to recognize his greatness.[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://blacksportsonline.com/index/5yvj8o.gif[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.arthursclipart.org/kids/kidscol/running.gif[/IMG]
Tracy McGrady
Pete Maravich
Tracy "Top 250 Player of All-Time, Top 10 Natural Talent of All-Time, Legendary Badass SG Peak" McGrady
[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]Couldnt tell you where all that bold came from.[/QUOTE]
you were so angry the site deemed it essential.
What did you think of those Pistol Pete links?
Which players would you compare him to personality wise today?
And finally, have you ever heard the story of Johnny Neumann?
[QUOTE=KG215]That should heavily tip the scales in his favor. All of you who didn't vote for Gasol, go back and change your vote now. He made the cover of an NBA video game in Spain. It's time to recognize his greatness.[/QUOTE]
Exactly, how many video game covers in Spain did Dave Debusschere make during his career anyway?
[QUOTE=WockaVodka]The real greatness is how he led the Lakers to a title in 2010. How many players remaining have led their team to a title? Probably none.[/QUOTE]
Reminds me of when Ron Harper led the Bulls to that three-peat or the Heinsohn dynasty of the 1960's Celtics. Those and lots of other things that never happened.[I] Pau Gasol[/I], clearly a top 10 7-foot Spaniard of All-time.
T-Mac.
Jerry Lucas
[QUOTE]What did you think of those Pistol Pete links?
Which players would you compare him to personality wise today?
And finally, have you ever heard the story of Johnny Neumann?
[/QUOTE]
Im gonna go into that a bit later when I have more time...mostly because id like to explain that unlike others people assume I hate(Karl..Reggie) I dont even mildly dislike Pete. I just havea problem with what he represents.
At the moment id like to mention someone im sure wont get in for a while...
Dave Bing. I claim no great knowledge of his career but I have seen a little of him play(though I was mostly watching for Bob Lanier). Hes one of those guys who just doesnt have that hook to make people care.
He came into the league in the mid 60s and was still having 20 point games vs guys who played in the 90s. He was an all star more than Pistol Pete in the same era. He led the league in scoring as well. he was top 5 in MVP voting a few times. I believe he made the playoffs more often(Pete probably went....3 times on the Hawks?). He was all NBA first team two or three times back when the players voted for it. He even got more assists than Pistol. And neither of them won anything so its not like Pete had that.
He just didnt throw the ball into the stands or try to shoot 35 footers on the break enough to be famous. I feel for guys like him. Work hard for greatness and....nobody gives a shit because someone people thought was worse than you was more flashy.
Thats sports though. Lot of points better than Jason williams will never get a youtube video with millions of views to make them famous forever.
Reggie Miller over Kevin Johnson?
:roll:
Kevin Johnson is better at every aspect of the game other than shooting, and has had bigger playoff performances than Reggie Miller ever has.
This list is just a joke. Was and is continuing to be. Kevin Johnson should've been Top 40.
[QUOTE=GP_20]Kevin Johnson should've been Top 40.[/QUOTE]
:facepalm
Two people on earth rank KJ top 40 and neither of them are even in his family. Being better than Reggie Miller isnt some bigtime accomplishment. At a glance at least 10 people after #80 last time were better than Reggie:
80. Dikembe Mutombo
81. Connie Hawkins
82. Chris Webber
83. Chris Mullin
84. Grant Hill
85. Mitch Richmond
86. Dan Issel
87. 'Jumpin' Joe Fulks
88. Alonzo Mourning
89. Shawn Kemp
90. Mark Price
91. Anfernee 'Penny' Hardaway
92. Tommy Heinsohn
93. George McGinnis
94. Tim Hardaway
95. Mel Daniels
96. Bob Davies
97. Tom Chambers
98. Maurice Cheeks
99. Ben Wallace
100. Mark Aguirre
[QUOTE=WockaVodka]The real greatness is how he led the Lakers to a title in 2010. How many players remaining have led their team to a title? Probably none.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=MiamiThrice][B]Pau Gasol[/B]
[IMG]http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.179239!/img/httpImage/image.jpg[/IMG]
-2x NBA Champion (2009, 2010)
-Led 2010 Lakers to the championship as the best player
-4 x NBA Allstar
-18.7 PPG, 9.2 RPG 3.2 APG career numbers
-3 All NBA teams
-Two silver medals as the best player
-One of the most skilled bigmen of all-time
-Made the cover of the NBA video game in Spain[/QUOTE]
Seriously RG? Do you really think we don't know it's you? :oldlol:
Only count one of these votes OP, since it's obviously the same person.
I got Pau Gasol here.
Another great Euro player with two titles and a GREAT post game.
What's the argument for Reggie Miller over Hal Greer? What makes Sam Jones five spots better than Reggie that doesn't also apply to Hal Greer?
There have been few arguments for Reggie over anyone. Its not a piece by piece argument made. Its "Reggie was ____" and the other people arent even mentioned because you cant mention what they did and what Reggie did and justify the pick in most cases. The case for Reggie is about him. Its not about what he did being superior to the others.
Which is why Dennis Johnson can have 3 rings, a finals MVP, be all nba first team, and 9 all d teams and nobody ranks him over Reggie or even Pistol Pete who didnt do shit in college or the NBA even when he had all NBA first team teammates or teams with 3 all stars.
Its about the guy you want...now how he actually compares.
[QUOTE=crisoner]I got Pau Gasol here.
Another great Euro player with two titles and a GREAT post game.[/QUOTE]
This....Gasol.