If you were the GM of a team and you had to pick one of them now to lead your team in the future, who would you pick?
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If you were the GM of a team and you had to pick one of them now to lead your team in the future, who would you pick?
Extremely tough choice. Parker was injured this past EYBL season but scouts still consider him the best player in 2013.
Parker is a bigger and (will be) stronger Melo/Pierce in that he's got an excellent jumper but still has enough strength quickness to occasionally finish with the dunk. He's 6'9 in shoes and he has a 6'11 wing span and at 16 is already 220 pounds, so his size/strength will never be a problem. He's got a very strong shot from pretty much anywhere on the floor and can do both set and jump shots. While pretty explosive, he's not quite at the level of Wiggins in terms of speed, quickness, or hops. I can see him developing into a combo forward (not a tweener) that can play both forward positions really well, mixing up wing play and post play (especially because his strength as of now is better than his athleticism). Looking at absolute maximum potential he has more than Melo just because while both bigger and more athletic than Melo, he shows the jumpshot (for a 17 year old) that Melo does, as well as strong finishing around the rim. His ability t get to the rim isn't as crafty as Melo, but his size helps. Doesn't show great ball handling though.
Wiggins' comparison is more of a Durant/Kobe hybrid. He's very much like Durant in that he's long (though not as big as Parker, being only 6'7 in shoes, matching his 6'11 wingspan, but weight 30 pounds less) with a good but awkward looking shot. Like Durant he's more focused on scoring than playmaking, and is a rebounder too while using his length for blocks. He's also very athletic, definitely more so than Parker, and is very good at using that to get into the rim (like Durant) but he's not quite as physically dominant as a LeBron was in high school. He also gets a couple things from Kobe scoring wise. While only 17 he's very good off the dribble creating his own shot, and slashing to the rim using hop steps, spin moves, hesitations etc. His handle isn't quite super tight yet but he changes it up often enough that he's still able to consistently get to the basket. A lot of people compare Wiggins to Tmac, but he neither has the length nor height to compare to Tmac, as Tmac was a full 1.5 inches taller, and a 3 inch wider wing span. Tmac also showed more skill out of the post than I've seen from Wiggins so far.
His absolute ceiling can be a slightly more athletic Kobe (though not as good a playmaker) or a shorter Durant, depending on how well he works on his offensive versatility.
Parker's potential is a bigger and more athletic Melo.
Of course these comparisons can be thrown right out the window depending on if Wiggins grows a couple inches or if Parker gets more athletic (like Griffin did after college somehow) as they're both still just 17. As of now though, that's the best I see these players developing.
As for which one will be better in the NBA, it's very very close. One has size, the other has athleticism. Both can shoot, both have decent handles, and both while willing passers aren't born playmakers.
For some reason, Jabari seems more superstarish to me.
What part of his game? Or his confidence or style?
[QUOTE=Dave3] Or his confidence or style?[/QUOTE]
Pretty much.
[QUOTE=SourPatchKids]Pretty much.[/QUOTE]
Eh, Durant is very similar to Wiggins demeanor wise but it hasn't stopped him from becoming the 2nd best player and top superstar in the league. He may not be as "big" as Kobe/LeBron, but he's still respected as the second best player, and to me that's more important than popularity.
[QUOTE=Dave3]Parker is a bigger and (will be) stronger Melo/Pierce in that he's got an excellent jumper but still has enough strength quickness to occasionally finish with the dunk. He's 6'9 in shoes and he has a 6'11 wing span and at 16 is already 220 pounds, so his size/strength will never be a problem. He's got a very strong shot from pretty much anywhere on the floor and can do both set and jump shots. While pretty explosive, he's not quite at the level of Wiggins in terms of speed, quickness, or hops. I can see him developing into a combo forward (not a tweener) that can play both forward positions really well, mixing up wing play and post play (especially because his strength as of now is better than his athleticism). Looking at absolute maximum potential he has more than Melo just because while both bigger and more athletic than Melo, he shows the jumpshot (for a 17 year old) that Melo does, as well as strong finishing around the rim. His ability t get to the rim isn't as crafty as Melo, but his size helps. Doesn't show great ball handling though.
Wiggins' comparison is more of a Durant/Kobe hybrid. He's very much like Durant in that he's long (though not as big as Parker, being only 6'7 in shoes, matching his 6'11 wingspan, but weight 30 pounds less) with a good but awkward looking shot. Like Durant he's more focused on scoring than playmaking, and is a rebounder too while using his length for blocks. He's also very athletic, definitely more so than Parker, and is very good at using that to get into the rim (like Durant) but he's not quite as physically dominant as a LeBron was in high school. He also gets a couple things from Kobe scoring wise. While only 17 he's very good off the dribble creating his own shot, and slashing to the rim using hop steps, spin moves, hesitations etc. His handle isn't quite super tight yet but he changes it up often enough that he's still able to consistently get to the basket. A lot of people compare Wiggins to Tmac, but he neither has the length nor height to compare to Tmac, as Tmac was a full 1.5 inches taller, and a 3 inch wider wing span. Tmac also showed more skill out of the post than I've seen from Wiggins so far.
His absolute ceiling can be a slightly more athletic Kobe (though not as good a playmaker) or a shorter Durant, depending on how well he works on his offensive versatility.
Parker's potential is a bigger and more athletic Melo.
Of course these comparisons can be thrown right out the window depending on if Wiggins grows a couple inches or if Parker gets more athletic (like Griffin did after college somehow) as they're both still just 17. As of now though, that's the best I see these players developing.
As for which one will be better in the NBA, it's very very close. One has size, the other has athleticism. Both can shoot, both have decent handles, and both while willing passers aren't born playmakers.[/QUOTE]
Great post there :applause: But who do you think is the best? Repped.
[QUOTE=Shade8780]Great post there :applause: But who do you think is the best? Repped.[/QUOTE]
They're both 17 and so good it's really hard to make any predictions. I'd say as of this moment Wiggin's might be very very slightly better. If he grows an inch or two more though, he'd have by far the more potential because he already has crazy hops and decent speed/quickness.
As of now though, for potential I'd go with Parker just because he's huge. His future will be post though because he's got a really big base (his legs are really big) so strength will never be a problem with him, but he might gain so much weight that mobility on the wing might become troublesome after years in the league. If he can stay small though (220 like he is now) he can be a crazy perimeter player just because of his size and arm length he'll both shoot and finish over anyone else on the wing.
For Wiggins though, I recently saw a couple highlights of junior LeBron and Wiggins looks better than that version of LeBron. The difference is LeBron got much bigger and more physically dominant by his senior year, and if Wiggins makes that jump he might be a better rookie than LeBron. If he stays the same size he'll still be great but 6'7 (in shoes) 195 lbs doesn't scream out dominating in the NBA. Not everyone is Michael or Kobe, being 6'6 and dominating the league is very very rare. Reason I'm talking about dominating the league though is because they both show crazy upside. For 17 year olds, neither of them has a real big weakness (like for LeBron it was his jumper, Durant it was his strength and ball handling, Griffin it was his shooting and free throws, etc.) Every rookie has had big problems somewhere or another. These guys have crazy overall game for some reason. It's exciting to think what they can do in the league.
Dave, which college programs do you think best suit Parker and Wiggins?
[QUOTE=SourPatchKids]Dave, which college programs do you think best suit Parker and Wiggins?[/QUOTE]
I know absolutely nothing about college programs, and which school focuses on what. You have any idea about that?
[QUOTE=Dave3]I know absolutely nothing about college programs, and which school focuses on what. You have any idea about that?[/QUOTE]
Haha, yea I do watch a decent amount of CBB but I thought I'd
pour into you wealth of basketball knowledge to get a better answer. Right now I have nothing better than the writers of BleacherReport.
[QUOTE=SourPatchKids]Haha, yea I do watch a decent amount of CBB but I thought I'd
pour into you wealth of basketball knowledge to get a better answer. Right now I have nothing better than the writers of BleacherReport.[/QUOTE]
Haha, hardly a wealth of knowledge. I just watch a lot of 2014 prospects now because a) the Raptors suck, and b) we traded away our 2013 draft pick.
I've got nothing at all though about those basketball programs. What are the differences between the schools and how do they improve players certain ways?
[QUOTE=Dave3]Haha, hardly a wealth of knowledge. I just watch a lot of 2014 prospects now because a) the Raptors suck, and b) we traded away our 2013 draft pick.
I've got nothing at all though about those basketball programs. What are the differences between the schools and how do they improve players certain ways?[/QUOTE]
Well there's coach cal and his one and dones. Basically every coach has his own philosophy and some focus on winning while others try to actually develop the players for the NBA. From what I've gathered, Jabari is a good fit for either Washington or Michigan State, and Wiggins will probably head to Kentucky.
[QUOTE=SourPatchKids]Well there's coach cal and his one and dones. Basically every coach has his own philosophy and some focus on winning while others try to actually develop the players for the NBA. From what I've gathered, Jabari is a good fit for either Washington or Michigan State, and Wiggins will probably head to Kentucky.[/QUOTE]
Well I'm sure since they both have number 1 pick potential, it would be better for both of them to go into a program to develop them more than just win. Anthony Davis improved quite a bit in Kentucky I'd bet, but I'd rather have seen him on a team trying to score 20 points every game than on a team where he was a 3rd or 4th option on offense.
[QUOTE=SourPatchKids]Well there's coach cal and his one and dones. Basically every coach has his own philosophy and some focus on winning while others try to actually develop the players for the NBA. From what I've gathered, Jabari is a good fit for either Washington or Michigan State, and Wiggins will probably head to Kentucky.[/QUOTE]
i dont know a dont about cbb either, but if he goes to kentucky, they play pretty much no zone defense whatsoever, and are a strong defensive team, so that would definitely help wiggins learn to play nba level defense.
as opposed to going somewhere like baylor or syracuse, who play zone exclusively, and he'd learn little about nba standard man-to-man defense
bump just wanna know some update about these 2 ?
Bump. How things have changed...
After a year the general consensus has changed from Wiggins = Jabari, to Wiggins >> Randle > Jabari.
Wiggins looks like the clear cut #1 pick atm. Things can always change, but I don't see it happening...
[QUOTE=Goliath Uterus]Wiggins looks like the clear cut #1 pick atm. Things can always change, but I don't see it happening...[/QUOTE]
This thread was from August '12. Wiggins is clearly much better.
[QUOTE=Shade8780]This thread was from August '12. Wiggins is clearly much better.[/QUOTE]
This thread is from August '12. I agree, he's a much better prospect, and I honestly find Jabari overrated. Randle, Selden, Young >>> Embiid in 2 years >>>
Whats overrated about Parker? He's not an explosive athlete but he has the ability to create his own offense and a sweet jumper.
[QUOTE=GOBB]Whats overrated about Parker? He's not an explosive athlete but he has the ability to create his own offense and a sweet jumper.[/QUOTE]
I just think there's better players in the class that get less shine, and I think his lack of athleticism will hurt him in the NBA - he's not the NBA all star caliber player many make him out to be. I still think he'll be good at Duke, and I can't wait to see Wiggins shit all over him at the Champions Classic.
[QUOTE=Goliath Uterus]I just think there's better players in the class that get less shine, and I think his lack of athleticism will hurt him in the NBA - he's not the NBA all star caliber player many make him out to be. I still think he'll be good at Duke, and I can't wait to see Wiggins shit all over him at the Champions Classic.[/QUOTE]
Gotcha, I've only seen the highlight videos so I'm not really trying to challenge you given how little I've seen. Just curious. So I cant wait to see him, Wiggins, Randle everyone (incl guys who dont get much attention) ball. I think I'm a Randle fan before Wiggins or Parker tho. That dude man. :bowdown:
I actually feel like Randle is underrated at this point too. I get the Wiggins stuff. You see him do things, and it's clear that he's got elite elite athleticism. The type of thing you only see in the very top 1% of players. But there's something about watching full games from him, even when his numbers are dominant, where I just don't feel like he's imposing himself on the game. It's hard to explain.
I like Randle because I feel like that position is not in great shape. He's like a genuine big time PF prospect the likes of which we haven't seen since Chris Webber. He's got legit size and length. And his ball skills and shooting are already pretty damn polished. He runs incredibly well, and looks like he can even step out and defend some.
I'm a Celtic fan, which means I'm required by law to love Paul Pierce, and Parker is clearly cut out of that Pierce/Melo cloth. But he is a little bigger, so maybe there's some more upside. But I am a little concerned about the slightly limited athleticism. It just doesn't always play in the NBA. I fear with guys like that you can get into a position where they're so good you can't replace them, but not good enough to truely build a contender around.
[QUOTE=Thorpesaurous]I actually feel like Randle is underrated at this point too. I get the Wiggins stuff. You see him do things, and it's clear that he's got elite elite athleticism. The type of thing you only see in the very top 1% of players. But there's something about watching full games from him, even when his numbers are dominant, where I just don't feel like he's imposing himself on the game. It's hard to explain.
I like Randle because I feel like that position is not in great shape. He's like a genuine big time PF prospect the likes of which we haven't seen since Chris Webber. He's got legit size and length. And his ball skills and shooting are already pretty damn polished. He runs incredibly well, and looks like he can even step out and defend some. [/quote]
On board the Randle train myself which is why I'm really interested to see how he matches up vs bigger, stronger just as fast kids at the collegiate level. Also guys with good bball IQ that will challenge him. Watching him in HS there are times its totally unfair the things he does. But what mind blowns me is his got damn handle. Its really good for a guy his size and he is agile as hell.
So hype about college bball its been years but I'm a Sixers fan so you know why and can understand given ur a Celtics fan. :oldlol:
[quote]I'm a Celtic fan, which means I'm required by law to love Paul Pierce, and Parker is clearly cut out of that Pierce/Melo cloth. But he is a little bigger, so maybe there's some more upside. But I am a little concerned about the slightly limited athleticism. It just doesn't always play in the NBA. I fear with guys like that you can get into a position where they're so good you can't replace them, but not good enough to truely build a contender around.[/QUOTE]
Good point.
[QUOTE=Thorpesaurous]I actually feel like Randle is underrated at this point too. I get the Wiggins stuff. You see him do things, and it's clear that he's got elite elite athleticism. The type of thing you only see in the very top 1% of players. But there's something about watching full games from him, even when his numbers are dominant, where I just don't feel like he's imposing himself on the game. It's hard to explain.[/QUOTE]
Really? I think he imposes himself in pretty much every way. He obviously scores a lot of points, he's a top 3 defensive player in the class, and I feel like he has more poise and composure than Randle.
[QUOTE]I like Randle because I feel like that position is not in great shape. He's like a genuine big time PF prospect the likes of which we haven't seen since Chris Webber. He's got legit size and length. And his ball skills and shooting are already pretty damn polished. He runs incredibly well, and looks like he can even step out and defend some. [/QUOTE]
Chris Weber is exactly what I've been saying. I really wish he had gone somewhere other than UK, cause he's not gonna have much time to develop his post game in that offense, but he'll still be a beast. He's easily the 2nd best in the class behind #22, him and Wiggins look like perennial NBA all stars already.
Wiggins vs. Randle at Peach Jam....
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYpwWYw7lvc[/url]
[QUOTE=Goliath Uterus]Wiggins vs. Randle at Peach Jam....
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYpwWYw7lvc[/url][/QUOTE]
Wiggins won that matchup. But damn Randle is strong. There is a play where he takes on like 3 defenders, finishes with the hoop and harm. :bowdown: Wiggins athletic ability is pretty impressive. Got damn.
Cant wait for college bball.
[QUOTE=Goliath Uterus]Really? I think he imposes himself in pretty much every way. He obviously scores a lot of points, he's a top 3 defensive player in the class, and I feel like he has more poise and composure than Randle.
Chris Weber is exactly what I've been saying. I really wish he had gone somewhere other than UK, cause he's not gonna have much time to develop his post game in that offense, but he'll still be a beast. He's easily the 2nd best in the class behind #22, him and Wiggins look like perennial NBA all stars already.[/QUOTE]
I think what you're calling poise and composure, I'm maybe reading as a bit of a dead motor (which is an overstatement, but I'm not sure how else to express it). And I know I'm not the only person who's wondered about Wiggins' motor, although some of the criticism I've read has been downright sad in it's attacking of the kid, where I feel like I just can't correctly express what feels like a kind of malaise at times. That game you posted was great though, where you could see his juices get flowing competing with Randle.
Wiggins is a great defender at this level, but much of it seems to rely on his athleticism. He seems to drift in and out. He's a good passer, but not transcendent.
I think the thing that gets me is the Lebron name being thrown around so much. "Best prospect since Lebron". That may be true, but unlike Lebron, I actually want to see this kid play a season in college before I make my final decision. When the athleticism evens out a bit (and it won't ever be even, because he's just that gifted physically), will what looks to me like malaise at the HS level be more of a lapse of focus that he can't cover for.
That sort of focus issue has been a problem for many a kid his age. And when the Lebron thing gets thrown around, I think that's where the problem stems from, because what set Lebron apart were two things, one he was physically gifted pretty much beyond anyone else, and he seemed hyper engaged. Granted it was more in the Magic Johnson gregerious mold, rather than the Jordan, or Russell, pathalogical mold, but still, he was engaged in the game as a young kid in a way that just isn't normal, and Wiggins often times I just don't see that.
All that said what he brings to the table athletically and skill set wise, particularly regarding what is the foundation of his jumper, which looks awesome, he'd still almost certainly be my top pick.
Howeverrrrrr ... if he does have moments at Kansas that question his focus a bit, and I've already got a top flight wing on my roster as a bad team (which frankly I can't think of one at the moment), I still feel like Randle's 6-9, 250 lb frame, with what is by all accounts plus plus athleticism, and a pretty damn refined skill set himself, I can see a team preferring him. I don't see the gap as that huge. Especially if I'm right and Randle is a bit out of shape from being injured his senior year, and he winds up looking better as a real program like Kentucky starts prepping him as a pro prospect. Whereas Wiggins, I'm not sure what he can do at Kansas to look better as a prospect than he already does.
And like you said, everyone, including Parker, just looks to be a notch below these two guys.
i dont know about randle to be honest he might be special but i think i want to see what he can do more than what wiggins can do in college . why?
because in the nba there will be guys that can defend him and will defend him better than anyone else in college right now. for wiggins kid can actually play 2 or 3 like a kevin durant .. and right now he is better defensively than kd when kd was at this age.
parker on the other hand could end up being a better primed danny granger.
I think pressure is on randle mode because that team is stacked ... that has got to be the most stacked team in recent years just because how they got top 20 in their roster. its crazy.
the only worry i have for wiggins is his jumpshot he has a great form he just needs to be damn good on delivering it when needed .
then we have the rest... who can still be all stars..
but i guess out of the 3 you guys are right randle and wiggins could be franchise players for years.
Dante Exum is gonna rise up those draft boards next year. Draft time next year, I see it as...
1. Wiggins
2. Exum
3. Randle
4. Parker
time to bump this...
[QUOTE=veilside23]time to bump this...[/QUOTE]
This argument is going on all over the forum.
[QUOTE=veilside23]i dont know about randle to be honest he might be special but i think i want to see what he can do more than what wiggins can do in college . why?
because in the nba there will be guys that can defend him and will defend him better than anyone else in college right now. for wiggins kid can actually play 2 or 3 like a kevin durant .. and right now he is better defensively than kd when kd was at this age.
parker on the other hand could end up being a better primed danny granger.
I think pressure is on randle mode because that team is stacked ... that has got to be the most stacked team in recent years just because how they got top 20 in their roster. its crazy.
the only worry i have for wiggins is his jumpshot he has a great form he just needs to be damn good on delivering it when needed .
then we have the rest... who can still be all stars..
but i guess out of the 3 you guys are right randle and wiggins could be franchise players for years.[/QUOTE]
I agree with you on Randle. He is a very good athlete and rebounder but is undersized at 6'8. He reminds me of thomas robinson