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-   -   Why talk about individual defense? (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=114879)

DoubleTech 01-01-2009 02:16 AM

Why talk about individual defense?
 
roughly 10 players in this league are considered "very good defenders"

when so few can actually "shut down" someone, why make such a big deal about defense? shouldn't it just be a huge bonus?

example:ron artest without his defense is a ricky davis type player..... BUT HE'S GREAT ON D SO LETS MAKE HIM A NEAR-ALLSTAR!

know what i mean?

Godfather 01-01-2009 02:25 AM

Re: Why talk about individual defense?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DoubleTech
roughly 10 players in this league are considered "very good defenders"

when so few can actually "shut down" someone, why make such a big deal about defense? shouldn't it just be a huge bonus?

example:ron artest without his defense is a ricky davis type player..... BUT HE'S GREAT ON D SO LETS MAKE HIM A NEAR-ALLSTAR!

know what i mean?


Defense is a huge part of the game son. Look at the last ten years in the league...There isn't a single champion that isn't a great defensive team.

I don't understand your Artest point. Ben Wallace is a Kwame Brown type player, but with his dominant defense he is a future hall of famer.

Know what I mean?

Kblaze8855 01-01-2009 02:25 AM

Re: Why talk about individual defense?
 
Quote:

roughly 10 players in this league are considered "very good defenders"

Nah. Just about 10 who get attention for it. You will rarely hear about Adrian Griffin or Lindsey Hunter. But they exist.

FinishHim! 01-01-2009 03:54 AM

Re: Why talk about individual defense?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Godfather
Defense is a huge part of the game son. Look at the last ten years in the league...There isn't a single champion that isn't a great defensive team.

I don't understand your Artest point. Ben Wallace is a Kwame Brown type player, but with his dominant defense he is a future hall of famer.

Know what I mean?

Ben Wallace is not a future HOF.

Biddy77 01-01-2009 04:00 AM

Re: Why talk about individual defense?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kblaze8855
Nah. Just about 10 who get attention for it. You will rarely hear about Adrian Griffin or Lindsey Hunter. But they exist.


exactly.

the coaches and scouts all know who those guys are, even though the fans don't. if it's not a block or a steal, the majority of fans aren't going to notice or care about it.

Bayless went 0 of 4 last night on fgs, but i was still impressed as hell with his time on the floor vs the Celtics. he played air tight man defense, always knew where he was and where his man was, etc. i wouldn't be surprised at all if his performance last night earned him more minutes with McMillan being so vocal this week about possible lineup changes to get more D on the floor.

stephanieg 01-01-2009 04:01 AM

Re: Why talk about individual defense?
 
As I clicked this thread I thought you were going to say how individual defense is overrated and that the team defensive schemes combined with even average individual defense but solid team communication and a winning atmosphere would be much more effective than simply having a collection of good defenders. And that, you know, someone who plays for a substandard team will not put in even token effort but if he's moved to a better team he'll suddenly be completely different.

I was disappointed.

Suffice to say, looking up and down the roster of the Celtics or Cavs doesn't scream "WARNING! LEAGUE DOMINATING DEFENSIVE JUGGERNAUT WITHIN!" But there it is. I mean, Ray Allen and Paul Pierce? Perkins? Big Z? Delonte West? Mo Williams? This would be a laughable proposition in the summer of 2007.

Of course, this could easily segue into an analogous point re: individual offense.

beasted86 01-01-2009 04:03 AM

Re: Why talk about individual defense?
 
Because NBA basketball is an individual sport..... Gosh! So simple.

Biddy77 01-01-2009 04:04 AM

Re: Why talk about individual defense?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by stephanieg
As I clicked this thread I thought you were going to say how individual defense is overrated and that the team defensive schemes combined with even average individual defense but solid team communication and a winning atmosphere would be much more effective than simply having a collection of good defenders. And that, you know, someone who plays for a substandard team will not put in even token effort but if he's moved to a better team he'll suddenly be completely different.

I was disappointed.

Suffice to say, looking up and down the roster of the Celtics or Cavs doesn't scream "WARNING! LEAGUE DOMINATING DEFENSIVE JUGGERNAUT!" But there it is. I mean, Ray Allen and Paul Pierce? Perkins? Big Z? Delonte West? Mo Williams? This would be a laughable proposition in the summer of 2007.


so... Paul Pierce isn't a very good individual defensive player? Kobe would never vocalize it, but in his head, i'm sure he'd disagree. yes, the Celtics team defense was great against Kobe, but watch that series again and see how tightly Pierce stuck with him and contested everything. that was one of the best defensive showings i've seen in years.

gpfanz 01-01-2009 04:06 AM

Re: Why talk about individual defense?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DoubleTech
know what i mean?


Knowing how to play gd D is a big asset thats why :banghead:

beasted86 01-01-2009 04:06 AM

Re: Why talk about individual defense?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by stephanieg
Suffice to say, looking up and down the roster of the Celtics or Cavs doesn't scream "WARNING! LEAGUE DOMINATING DEFENSIVE JUGGERNAUT WITHIN!"


Kevin Garnett? Ben Wallace?

stephanieg 01-01-2009 04:11 AM

Re: Why talk about individual defense?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Biddy77
so... Paul Pierce isn't a very good individual defensive player?


Not before 2008, hell no. Suddenly he turns into Sidney Moncrief and is locking up LeBron and Kobe like it's nothing. Heck, even Ray Allen was making Kobe look kinda dumb out there. This goes back to my point about trying to judge the capabilities of players on bad teams. Put them on a different team and all the sudden...

stephanieg 01-01-2009 04:16 AM

Re: Why talk about individual defense?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by beasted86
Kevin Garnett? Ben Wallace?


The idea that a single player can make a team so good on D that the rest of the league looks stupid doesn't sit well with me. There have been many teams with historically all time great defensive big men who were average or above average defensively.

Cleveland was a good but not dominant defensive team last year with Wallace. Neither were the Timberwolves with KG. When Big Ben was on the Pistons he had elite individual defenders at pretty much every other position except the two.

FinishHim! 01-01-2009 04:19 AM

Re: Why talk about individual defense?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by stephanieg
The idea that a single player can make a team so good on D that the rest of the league looks stupid doesn't sit well with me. There have been many teams with historically all time great defensive big men who were average or above average defensively.

Cleveland was a good but not dominant defensive team last year with Wallace. Neither were the Timberwolves with KG. When Big Ben was on the Pistons he had elite individual defenders at pretty much every other position except the two.

And that's not even to say that Rip is a bad defender either. He's above average IMO despite not being elite. Ben Wallets was an excellent help defender i'll give him credit for that, but his one on one D wasn't all that great.

west 01-01-2009 04:33 AM

Re: Why talk about individual defense?
 
nevermind

Yung D-Will 01-01-2009 07:30 AM

Re: Why talk about individual defense?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DoubleTech
roughly 10 players in this league are considered "very good defenders"

when so few can actually "shut down" someone, why make such a big deal about defense? shouldn't it just be a huge bonus?

example:ron artest without his defense is a ricky davis type player..... BUT HE'S GREAT ON D SO LETS MAKE HIM A NEAR-ALLSTAR!

know what i mean?


Defense wins championship's playing no defense gets you less minutes(Generally) Defense creates offense.


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