Re: Kobe Freaking Bryant!
[QUOTE=lilojmayo]Kobe has matched Jordan is 60+ pt performances good for him.
I'm about to go to sleep
but can anybody dig up all Kobe's and Jordan's 60+pt performances statline please
i know MJ with that 69 pt 18 rebs 6 assists 3 steals . not sure about the others.
What disappointing me was seeing 0 rebs for Kobe.[/QUOTE]
disappointing? Pau and Odom did their job.
Re: Kobe Freaking Bryant!
[QUOTE=243354]kobe is one of the greatest playoff performers ever. one of the many things that makes him the G.O.A.T-truth.:applause:[/QUOTE]
Is this a joke? Off the top of my head, players who were better playoff performers than Kobe:
Jordan
West
Bird
Magic
Shaq
Hakeem
Duncan
Wilt
KAJ
Barkley
So yeah, he's probably one of the top 10-15 playoff performers ever. If that's what you mean by "one of," then I guess you're right.
Re: Kobe Freaking Bryant!
[QUOTE=Fatal9]Mind telling us in how many of those he took either 40+ shots or 30 shots and 20 FTA. I know you found it pretty outrageous that Kobe had 30+ FGA and 20 FTA tonight.[/QUOTE]
I didn't find it outrageous at all. You need to use a lot of possessions to score 60+. My point was to note that using 40+ possessions in 37 minutes is the same as using 40+ possessions in 40-43 minutes. It was in response to someone who noted him scoring 61 in 37 minutes. The point was that if you're getting the same amount of opportunities to score in that time, there's really nothing special about it time-wise.
Re: Kobe Freaking Bryant!
I don't see a Big Gap between Kobe and Jordan in terms of scoring.
Sure MJ was more efficient, but Kobe has put on quite a few offensive performances that surpass MJ.
And Jordan wasn't putting up 60 pts. 13 years into his career
Re: Kobe Freaking Bryant!
[QUOTE=OldSchoolBBall]I didn't find it outrageous at all. You need to use a lot of possessions to score 60+. My point was to note that using 40+ possessions in 37 minutes is the same as using 40+ possessions in 40-43 minutes. It was in response to someone who noted him scoring 61 in 37 minutes. The point was that if you're getting the same amount of opportunities to score in that time, there's really nothing special about it time-wise.[/QUOTE]
FYI, he used 40 possessions exactly not 40+ (MJ was never able to score 60 using less than 48 possessions btw) as he was fouled on a 3 and had an and 1. Not that I'm comparing the two but I don't think you realize how efficient this game was. I would almost venture out and guess that Kobe might have scored 60+ using the fewest possessions ever.
Re: Kobe Freaking Bryant!
[QUOTE=chopchop20]I don't see a Big Gap between Kobe and Jordan in terms of scoring.
Sure MJ was more efficient, but Kobe has put on quite a few offensive performances that surpass MJ.
And Jordan wasn't putting up 60 pts. 13 years into his career[/QUOTE]
Since others are bringing up the subject, if Kobe is on par with MJ in terms of scoring, then why can't he dominate the playoffs like he dominates occasional regular season teams? Why doesn't he have some of his most memorable performances against the best teams in the playoffs? Why can't he bring it when it matters most against the best competition? I honestly thought after last season's finals, this issue would die.
Re: Kobe Freaking Bryant!
61 points:bowdown: :applause: :bowdown:
Re: Kobe Freaking Bryant!
[QUOTE=Showtime]Since others are bringing up the subject, if Kobe is on par with MJ in terms of scoring, then why can't he dominate the playoffs like he dominates occasional regular season teams? Why doesn't he have some of his most memorable performances against the best teams in the playoffs? Why can't he bring it when it matters most against the best competition? I honestly thought after last season's finals, this issue would die.[/QUOTE]
Because you fail to see the totality of Kobe's playoff performances. I know people point to his lower statistics in the Finals BUT look at all of his playoff series (especially during the 3 peat). He had a good series against Phoenix in 2007. He played good ball last year except the Finals.
Game 7, WCF, 2000 (the lob to Shaq game) - led the Lakers in points, rebounds, assists, and blocks.
I mean, there's a whole list of really good performances from Kobe in the playoffs... Not saying that he's MJ in that regard, but don't make it seem like Kobe is A-Rod
Re: Kobe Freaking Bryant!
[QUOTE=Riker]Hey *******, 63 points still hanging there
And not against some chumps but against champ Celtics
But I agree, when it comes to random un-important trivial season games where nobody cares = Kobe's the best
MJ's 55 points vs 95 Knicks comparing that to this wrecked Knicks with Nate Robinson as a center?
:violin:[/QUOTE]
kobe is the best player in the league.
but god damn I would love to see jordan play a dantoni team. he would murder them so massively
Re: Kobe Freaking Bryant!
[QUOTE=Fatal9]FYI, he used 40 possessions exactly not 40+ (MJ was never able to score 60 using less than 48 possessions btw) as he was fouled on a 3 and had an and 1. Not that I'm comparing the two but I don't think you realize how efficient this game was. I would almost venture out and guess that Kobe might have scored 60+ using the fewest possessions ever.[/QUOTE]
I'm pretty sure Wilt holds that honor. As for Jordan, how many and-1's did he have in those games? Regardless, it doesn't matter.
Jordan scored 59 on 35-36 possessions vs. Detroit in 1988 (21-27 FG and 17-19 FT's with two and-1's, the game is up on youtube). He also scored 52 on 31 possessions vs. Philly (24-29 FG, 4-4 FT). But again, it doesn't matter imo. These types of games happen so infrequently that it isn't informative.
[quote=chopchop20]And Jordan wasn't putting up 60 pts. 13 years into his career[/quote]
Kobe is 30. Jordan was busy averaging 41/9/7 in the Finals at age 30. Kobe is busy beating up on scrub teams in the regular season.
I also love how Kobe fans talk about how many years Kobe has been in the league when it suits them (like here), but then talk about age when it suits them ("Kobe has accomplished x/y/z by age 30!" etc.). Funny.
[quote]Because you fail to see the totality of Kobe's playoff performances. I know people point to his lower statistics in the Finals BUT look at all of his playoff series (especially during the 3 peat). He had a good series against Phoenix in 2007. He played good ball last year except the Finals.
Game 7, WCF, 2000 (the lob to Shaq game) - led the Lakers in points, rebounds, assists, and blocks.
I mean, there's a whole list of really good performances from Kobe in the playoffs... Not saying that he's MJ in that regard, but don't make it seem like Kobe is A-Rod[/quote]
Jordan literally ****s on Kobe as a playoff performer, even just looking at scoring. Get real.
Fact: Kobe has had [b]one[/b] playoff series in his [b]entire career[/b] where he's averaged > 34.8 ppg (vs. Sac in 2001, when he averaged 35.0 ppg). That was Jordan's 111 game, 9 year playoff scoring [b]average[/b] upon retirement in 1993. So yeah, tell me again how their playoff performance is close. :oldlol:
Re: Kobe Freaking Bryant!
[QUOTE=chopchop20]Because you fail to see the totality of Kobe's playoff performances.[/quote]
I've never seen Kobe dominate a finals series and lead his team to victory as the best player. Hell, even just a playoff series really hasn't happened outside his Jazz series last year.
[quote]I know people point to his lower statistics in the Finals BUT look at all of his playoff series (especially during the 3 peat).[/quote]
I never said he didn't have good games. I said he's never (with his most recent exception against Utah last year), ever dominated an entire series and lead his teams to victory. He hasn't brought his domination on a consistent basis in the playoffs.
[quote]He had a good series against Phoenix in 2007.[/quote]
Losing 4-1 and going 13-33 in the deciding game is something you want to bring into this discussion as point in favor of him?
[quote]I mean, there's a whole list of really good performances from Kobe in the playoffs... Not saying that he's MJ in that regard, but don't make it seem like Kobe is A-Rod[/QUOTE]
Kobe has had really good performances. The problem with that is that those are single performances and not extended domination. Kobe hasn't been consistent his entire career, let alone in the postseason. Others have been able to play at a consistently high level, while Kobe has "moments" instead of dominating stretches. If you want to put him in MJ's class as a scorer, then he better be able to show that he can translate his regular season domination to postseason domination. You want me to overlook his finals performances, but to me, those are the ones that matter the most because those are the games that matter the most.
Re: Kobe Bryant scores 61 points against Knicks in Madison Square Garden
Why does anyone get insulted if someone compares Kobe to MJ? Who would you guys rather compare Kobe to? Detlef Shrempf? Kobe is the closest thing we will get to MJ. Ignore the people that say Kobe>MJ. He still has a lot to prove before we can draw any fair comparisons. So instead of attacking Kobe, just relax and tell us to show you the rings.
Re: Kobe Bryant scores 61 points against Knicks in Madison Square Garden
[QUOTE=imdaman99]Why does anyone get insulted if someone compares Kobe to MJ? Who would you guys rather compare Kobe to? Detlef Shrempf? Kobe is the closest thing we will get to MJ. Ignore the people that say Kobe>MJ. He still has a lot to prove before we can draw any fair comparisons. So instead of attacking Kobe, just relax and tell us to show you the rings.[/QUOTE]
First off, saying Kobe is closest to MJ is a debate in itself, not a conclusion. Second, even if he was, WHY DOES THAT MATTER? It doesn't. His fans constantly make comments about him being the best ____ ever, aka better than every other player in that area. That automatically creates a debate.
Re: Kobe Freaking Bryant!
[QUOTE=Showtime]
[B]If you want to put him in MJ's class as a scorer, then he better be able to show that he can translate his regular season domination to postseason domination. You want me to overlook his finals performances, but to me, those are the ones that matter the most because those are the games that matter the most.[/B][/QUOTE]
Dude, Kobe put himself in MJ's class as an offensive player by what he has done on the court -- not by what people in a forum have said. He was the lead story on ESPN tonight because he scored 61... not about last years playoffs, what happened 10 years ago, or what MJ is doing.
The guy hit 81, shares the record for most 3 pointers in a game, 2nd longest streak of 40 point + games (tied MJ) behind Wilt, averaged 40 points in a month (twice I think), 4 consecutive games of scoring 50 pts, etc...
Kobe has done it on the court like few others have.
Re: Kobe Freaking Bryant!
[QUOTE=chopchop20]Dude, Kobe put himself in MJ's class as an offensive player by what he has done on the court -- not by what people in a forum have said. He was the lead story on ESPN tonight because he scored 61... not about last years playoffs, what happened 10 years ago, or what MJ is doing.[/quote]
Kobe is only in MJ's class in your opinion. To me, a player on the same level as another player should at least have proven they can play on the same level. Kobe hasn't proven that to me. And I've seen a lot of Kobe Bryant.
[quote]The guy hit 81, shares the record for most 3 pointers in a game, 2nd longest streak of 40 point + games (tied MJ) behind Wilt, averaged 40 points in a month (twice I think), 4 consecutive games of scoring 50 pts, etc...
Kobe has done it on the court like few others have.[/QUOTE]
Does that mean AI and Gervin are on Kobe's level because of their similar (and in some cases superior) scoring accomplishments?