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What impressed me most about Hakeem was his ability to beat opponents with footwork. Something which I feel is greatly lacking in todays centers. He was also undersized at his position considering the amount of true 7ft centers in the league at that time.
For this reason I rate him highly, and the whole overrated/ underrated argument is non stop because people have a much different appreciation of certain players.
Top 5 centers of all time.
I personally think Shaq is better then Hakeem, but the difference is minimal really. However, I believe Hakeem is a better player then Tim Duncan.
He's not overrated. The only centers that are clearly above him are Kareem and Wilt. Even Russell isn't definitely above him. And Hakeem is arguably the most versatile defensive big man in NBA history.
[QUOTE=White Chocolate]He's not overrated. The only centers that are clearly above him are Kareem and Wilt. Even Russell isn't definitely above him. And Hakeem is arguably the most versatile defensive big man in NBA history.[/QUOTE]
Individually speaking Hakeem >>>>>> Russell. Accomplishment speaking Russell >>>>>> Hakeem. Take it as you wish.
[QUOTE=juju151111]Stop posting your fantasy numbers. The game is slower today and have more back to backs. He wouldn't be able to sustain 30 and 16. He wpildn't even get that much shot attempts.[/QUOTE]
Well this is an argument you are going to loose. They spent way more time at airports as there were no chartered flights. They played way more back to backs and sometimes played 5 games straight - and in 4 different cities. They had way crappier beds and no money for massueses. Had bad airconditioning and heating at games. You could piggie back on Wilt's back and karate chop over his hands. Wilt's endurance was off the hook. At 50 years old he ran a 50 mile marathon. He was freakish in that regards. His activity level to me is one of his most amazing thing ever in basketball. Over 160 games he averaged 47.5 points and 25 rebounds and likely 7 blocks and nearly 3 assist a game while barely sitting out and far worse conditions. In games that were much more up and down than now.
[QUOTE=ShaqAttack3234]Here's Wilt sprinting and going all out to the point where he falls and his head still isn't at the rim [URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=849_WdqJ8o8#t=3m20s"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=849_WdqJ8o8#t=3m20s[/URL] [/quote] LOL, I'm sure you know that argument isn't legit. He wasn't qualifing for a long or high jump. He did what he set out to do.
[quote]
And that's probably the closest I've seen his head to the rim. Now, Shaq coming out of LSU recorded a 36" max vertical at the 1992 pre-draft camp. Here you can see that with a standing vert, his head is damn near rim level. [URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26oszd3z9Ns#t=0m33s"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26oszd3z9Ns#t=0m33s[/URL
340 pound 28 year old Shaq, his shoulder isn't that far from rim level! [URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EefJHAWigvY#t=6m11s"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EefJHAWigvY#t=6m11s[/URL]
Have YOU ever seen Wilt jump that high? If so, post the footage. ][/quote]
Just curious do you really think Shaq is in some facet or comparable measure to Wilt in jumping? Heck anytype of jumping? One foot, two foot, broad, standing, slow, fast, running, high or long? With limited footage of Wilt we know he way more explosive than Shaq. Shaq seems to not to like to jump. He's a sometime jumper. Height isn't going to be proved on video but we see Wilt ducking his head a lot because of the backboard, its dangerous beyond that so that's a useless point to prove during the game. But even in the hideous footage you posted of Wilt he had more spring in his legs than probably any center since (Maybe not Hakeem, who doesn't get enough credit for being the smartest guy of knowing when to leave his feet.)
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You're telling me Wilt not only jumped higher than all of them, but a foot higher?[/quote] Don't you think Dwight Howard can touch the top of the backboard??? He's that close with his left hand while multitasking with his right. Now Dwight is a leaper.
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Except give Wilt a more realistic 40 mpg(which is the most any big man averaged in 2000). One of them was Kevin Garnett who is extremely durable and had to carry a team as much as any superstar.
Wilt's Warriors averaged 129.7 possessions per game, Shaq's Lakers averaged 93.3 possessions per game. Give Wilt the amount of FGA per possession and FTA per FGA in 40 mpg and he averages 30.7 ppg on 24 FGA. Give him the same percentage of his teams rebounds in 40 mpg and he averages 15.9 rpg and 1.8 apg
And no, it's not clear that he would have shot better. The league average was lower then because of all the quick shots perimeter players took as well as the inferior ball handling skills of perimeter players at the time and the lack of guards who attacked the basket the same way perimeter players do now. Wilt would still be posting up, like he did then except there would be less transition opportunities and....
And this isn't about what he would have averaged rather than putting his stats in perspective given the pace and minutes. I personally think he wouldn't be getting up 24 shots per game in 2000 or averaging 30. Even so, I'll admit that Wilt was a better rebounder than Shaq or Kareem, though the margin isn't as big as the initial stats suggest. [/quote] Neither Shaq or Kareem really went out of their way to rebound. It was like something they hated to do on the job resume. Wilt was more eager and more fundamental..
Your other points are solidly made. I have a Wilt in today's thread coming soon. And maybe you will join that one.
[QUOTE=Pointguard]
Your other points are solidly made. [B]I have a Wilt in today's thread coming soon[/B]. And maybe you will join that one.[/QUOTE]
We don't really need yet another "Wilt in todays game" thread, there are almost as many of those as there is "Kobe vs. MJ" threads. It's almost impossible to post something on the topic that hasn't been said before, both possitive or negative. Might as well just bump an old thread.
I hate ranking players by a number or whatever. I much rather a Tier system, and Hakeem is in that top tier of great centres of all time.
THIS
time for this discussion to be brought up again.
[QUOTE=IGOTGAME]time for this discussion to be brought up again.[/QUOTE]
Not really..
Most OVER-RATED player on the ISH board. EIGHT FIRST-ROUND playoff exits. ONE MVP in 18 seasons.
BORDERLINE Top-10, AT BEST.
My god a nearly 40 year old Kareem, who could barely get 6 rpg, CRUSHED him with THREE 40+ point games in two seasons...and an average of 33 ppg on .634 shooting in FIVE H2H games in '86.
And how about this game...
[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=206575[/url]
[QUOTE]Los Angeles Times:
While Akeem Olajuwon spent the whole game trying to steal the ball from Abdul-Jabbar, the Laker center spent the whole game throwing down a breathtaking series of hook shots on his way to a 46-point explosion.
For some reason, Rocket Coach Bill Fitch thinks it is a good idea to let Olajuwon go one-on-one with Abdul-Jabbar. It proved to be the biggest coaching blunder in any Laker game this season.
Abdul-Jabbar made 21 of 30 shots in 37 minutes to reach his high this season. [B]He probably could have scored 50 points (his career high is 55) had he played any longer[/B].[/QUOTE]
Hakeem couldn't even guard a WAY-OVER-THE-HILL Kareem.
[quote=PHILA]As of late I have learned that he is the 5th best player in NBA history, superior to Bill Russell, Wilt Chamberlain, & Magic Johnson. :banghead:[/quote]
..
And now he's 3rd all time. :lol
I've always been a big Hakeem fan. I've always been amazed at his ability to raise his game during Ramadan (he'd fast everyday of the month). But yeah, he's not the GOAT center if anyone's saying that.