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-   -   Anybody else need the ball to be effective? (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=160355)

Swaggin916 01-15-2010 07:27 PM

Anybody else need the ball to be effective?
 
I played 3 games today... The first one I was just a warm up 3 on 3 game. I had some old guy guarding me like 5'8... kinda hard to get up for that lol. Still tho... I just let the other guys do their thing and overall I was pretty ineffective... couldn't knock down my shots at all (though I wasn't warmed up much) and couldn't find a rhythm. I think I was like 2-8 or something.

Game 2 the old guy left and 2 other guys stepped in. This was decent competition so I wanted to play serious. I basically dominated the ball... but of course I still dished to my teammates playing a Lebron like role. I was on fire and everything felt right. My dude would set a screen for me and whenever the dude would go under it I would just pull up and shoot... and I missed only once the whole game. I think I was 7-8 with like 5 assists or so.

Game 3 was 5-5 cus some more dudes came. This one short guy wanted to run the point so I let him (I am one of those guys who will let someone else do what they want and I will adjust to them... if nobody steps up or if I feel like I am without question the best option then I will try and takeover.) Anyway, the place I feel most comfortable when I'm not running the offense is in the post... I got like 1 touch down there like most times. Other than that I was just spotting up since my dude was doing all the cutting and scored like 11 out of the games 15 points lol. Now, I can spot up just fine and can get in a rhythm out there... but i'm inconsistent. I didn't even score this game and 0-7 i think. The only good thing about my performance other than a couple decent dimes was that I got to try out the Eurostep/Stepthrough move while coming down the lane. It faked the dude out nicely and I would have scored but he fouled me. I felt like Tyreke Evans on that play tho haha... Guy wasn't exactly Dwight Howard tho lol.

Ok so the third game I was kind of tired because I have been resting with my ailments for like the last 6 weeks so my conditioning is terrible so I think that had a lot to do with it... but I just feel so much more comfortable running pick and roles and trying to penetrate and dish... so much more in tune when I am running the O.

Anybody else feel this way?

phoenix18 01-15-2010 07:47 PM

Re: Anybody else need the ball to be effective?
 
I create for others so, yes. With that said, I have been working on my off ball game extensively. The thing is, you have to play with people who have good court vision to be effective off the ball. I usually see the most so it would be detrimental to not have the ball. I can find people and feed the ball to the post well.

Maga_1 01-15-2010 08:00 PM

Re: Anybody else need the ball to be effective?
 
Damn, that's an excellent question.
I really need tha ball to be effective .. i'm a PG for nature and i need the contact on the ball all the time to make my team work and to make my game great .. Now the coach tried to adapt me as a SG, move with some screens for the interior players and make very cuts to the basket and i just can't do it, i don't know how to do it well and make myself space to create my shoot. In 9 years of basketball i created my shoot always on the driblble or something like that.. I need some workouts with Rip Hamilton or Ray Allen :lol

Swaggin916 01-16-2010 12:14 AM

Re: Anybody else need the ball to be effective?
 
See I love creating for others as well... I would much rather find the open man than score... and when I'm not handling the ball it just seems like people don't move as much. They know when I'm handling it I'm looking for them. I also figure I have the best court vision, but I'm going to try and not take people out of their comfort zone if they like to handle the ball... cus I feel like I can do other things well... I just don't consistently so it's a crapshoot.

Yea I think once you run point like you have for a while... it almost takes more trouble than it's worth to switch positions unless you go through a huge growth spurt or something where it just doesn't make much sense to keep you there (From a philosophy standpoint). As a PG, you aren't used to cutting and moving without the ball so it feels so unnatural. Just watch a lot of film and try to get used to it cus it's just another dimension to your game that you can add. Being able to transition from position to position is a luxury for any coach and team.

Yea Rip and Ray (and Reggie Miller) move so well without the ball it's unnatural lol. You have to be in amazing condition that quite frankly most people won't attain. You constantly have to push yourself through fatigue. It's tough lol.

Timmy D for MVP 01-16-2010 12:20 AM

Re: Anybody else need the ball to be effective?
 
I assume you mean only on the offensive side. And no I feel I can spot from my spot at any point. I am more comfortable controlling the ball but if I am I'll probably pass rather than score so...

I also get a lot of garbage points off rebounds and such.

Swaggin916 01-16-2010 12:32 AM

Re: Anybody else need the ball to be effective?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Timmy D for MVP
I assume you mean only on the offensive side. And no I feel I can spot from my spot at any point. I am more comfortable controlling the ball but if I am I'll probably pass rather than score so...

[b]I also get a lot of garbage points off rebounds and such.

[b]

Yea I actually like that role too (along with playing tough D) but with my hammys and knee I can't be jumping all over the place. When I got my vert up to 34 I probably would have proffered it... but right now no lol.

It really just makes me realize how special guys like Lebron and Wade are... They not only handle the ball all the time but they can play lockdown D too... tho not for 4 quarters no way. Those guys are just crazy athletes tho.

NY-Knicks 01-16-2010 09:34 AM

Re: Anybody else need the ball to be effective?
 
depends on the competition. if I have talented scorers or creators on my team I let them dominate the ball and hope for the occasional post up or open jumper. I get some assists passing to shooters (for instance swinging it to the corner when his man is helping on me). I also go for as many offensive rebounds as I can.
If I play on a team like that I try to steal passes to get open opportunities. I also grab a lot of rebounds and contest as many shots as I can so I can be effective without the ball. But when I play on a less talented squad I tend to dominate the ball a lot. I am often less effective like that because I do not put all my effort on defense and rebounding. I also take way more shots.
I am at my best on such a team when I play in the post. I'm a guard with a very decent postgame. I can somehow be effective either way, but not especially well in one part.

Maga_1 01-16-2010 05:59 PM

Re: Anybody else need the ball to be effective?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by NY-Knicks
depends on the competition. if I have talented scorers or creators on my team I let them dominate the ball and hope for the occasional post up or open jumper. I get some assists passing to shooters (for instance swinging it to the corner when his man is helping on me). I also go for as many offensive rebounds as I can.
If I play on a team like that I try to steal passes to get open opportunities. I also grab a lot of rebounds and contest as many shots as I can so I can be effective without the ball. But when I play on a less talented squad I tend to dominate the ball a lot. I am often less effective like that because I do not put all my effort on defense and rebounding. I also take way more shots.
I am at my best on such a team when I play in the post. I'm a guard with a very decent postgame. I can somehow be effective either way, but not especially well in one part.


Andre Miller type of player .

Swaggin916 01-16-2010 06:15 PM

Re: Anybody else need the ball to be effective?
 
Yea when you dominate the ball you tend to play a lot more lackadaisical on D because you are getting tired from doing everything offensively. A team can only be truly effective if everybody can identify what role they need to play. If people just want to do their own thing then they won't win if both teams are relatively similar in terms of athleticism... Unless they get lucky and make every shot.

NY-Knicks 01-17-2010 08:34 AM

Re: Anybody else need the ball to be effective?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Maga_1
Andre Miller type of player .


I can hit threes bro. :D

Nahh, but there is truth in what you said. The playmaking ability as a guard who scores easily from the post. I am a very good rebounder for a guard tho. I am trying to become an excellent defender to really be effective without the ball, would help my game and people want players like that on their team.

Maga_1 01-17-2010 08:40 AM

Re: Anybody else need the ball to be effective?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by NY-Knicks
I can hit threes bro. :D

Nahh, but there is truth in what you said. The playmaking ability as a guard who scores easily from the post. I am a very good rebounder for a guard tho. I am trying to become an excellent defender to really be effective without the ball, would help my game and people want players like that on their team.


So ... Chauncey Billups? lol

NY-Knicks 01-17-2010 08:45 AM

Re: Anybody else need the ball to be effective?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Maga_1
So ... Chauncey Billups? lol


Nice, if I could get serious range on my jumper and add some upper body strength that would actually be a decent comparison. Even though Andre Miller is not too far off. I am probably a poor mans Andre now, and my potential is poor mans Billups :oldlol:

what NBA player has the same playing style as you? :rockon:

Maga_1 01-17-2010 10:19 AM

Re: Anybody else need the ball to be effective?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by NY-Knicks
Nice, if I could get serious range on my jumper and add some upper body strength that would actually be a decent comparison. Even though Andre Miller is not too far off. I am probably a poor mans Andre now, and my potential is poor mans Billups :oldlol:

what NBA player has the same playing style as you? :rockon:


Sergio Rodriguez, everybody says that ..
But when they compare me too a star, they say i'm like Stephen Curry .. but i don't know why :s

Swaggin916 01-17-2010 06:04 PM

Re: Anybody else need the ball to be effective?
 
Gary Payton would be another good comparison if you are a guard who likes to post.

Rake2204 01-18-2010 01:37 AM

Re: Anybody else need the ball to be effective?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by NY-Knicks
depends on the competition. if I have talented scorers or creators on my team I let them dominate the ball and hope for the occasional post up or open jumper. I get some assists passing to shooters (for instance swinging it to the corner when his man is helping on me). I also go for as many offensive rebounds as I can.
If I play on a team like that I try to steal passes to get open opportunities. I also grab a lot of rebounds and contest as many shots as I can so I can be effective without the ball. But when I play on a less talented squad I tend to dominate the ball a lot. I am often less effective like that because I do not put all my effort on defense and rebounding. I also take way more shots.
I am at my best on such a team when I play in the post. I'm a guard with a very decent postgame. I can somehow be effective either way, but not especially well in one part.

I definitely agree that it depends on the competition as well as the level of talent on one's own team. If my team's IQ is such that we can play off one another through backscreens, give-and-go's, pick-and-roll's, clever looks inside. . .then yes. Unfortunately, there seems to be many times where, if I don't have the ball, I feel like I'm running around like a chicken with its head cut off. I can make a great back cut, but I know the given teammate won't see me. Sometimes I'll look for a screen, but no one ever provides one. Sometimes I'll set a screen and no one knows how to use it.

In those situations, it does seem I need the ball because I believe I begin to get the feeling that if I don't handle the ball and make something happen, then everyone will just stand around and let nothing happen.


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