Re: All-Time Writers Draft II
[QUOTE=raiderfan19]Im pretty happy with my homer/tolkien combo. Homer speaks for himself and imo tolkien is the most creative writer of all time. Also everyone knows about LOTR, The Hobbit, and The Silmarillion but he also wrote some of the most important literary criticisms and translations of all time. LOTR/The Hobbit also started modern high fantasy.[/QUOTE]
Tolkien is a stetch, for me.
He's just not a very good writer, his prose are pedestrian at his best (like the Hobbit) and rambling at worst (like the Silmarillion). The LOTR reads like a bestiary to me, all that detail on what a particular tree looks like, but not poetic detail, just flat out superfluous exposition. It's like a fictional history text book. I certainly wouldn't declare him the 'most creative writer of all time', maybe the most creative world-builder - but his actual writing is bland, compared to the innovation of, say Nabakov.
I suppose you can make some sort of argument based on the judging criteria, especially if popularity is considered. But I don't see him as an influential writer, certainly not influential over language (other than elvish), form and style.
He was a genius world-builder, and a decent narrative plotter. And I'm not one to completely dismiss genre writers, but this is a writer's draft - shouldn't quality of actual writing be the focus?
Re: All-Time Writers Draft II
Re: All-Time Writers Draft II
Another reason to hate bballer.
Re: All-Time Writers Draft II
[QUOTE=Jailblazers7]Another reason to hate bballer.[/QUOTE]
But hes considered a brilliant insidehoops poster.
Re: All-Time Writers Draft II
[QUOTE=sawyersauce]Tolkien is a stetch, for me.
He's just not a very good writer, his prose are pedestrian at his best (like the Hobbit) and rambling at worst (like the Silmarillion). The LOTR reads like a bestiary to me, all that detail on what a particular tree looks like, but not poetic detail, just flat out superfluous exposition. It's like a fictional history text book. I certainly wouldn't declare him the 'most creative writer of all time', maybe the most creative world-builder - but his actual writing is bland, compared to the innovation of, say Nabakov.
I suppose you can make some sort of argument based on the judging criteria, especially if popularity is considered. But I don't see him as an influential writer, certainly not influential over language (other than elvish), form and style.
He was a genius world-builder, and a decent narrative plotter. And I'm not one to completely dismiss genre writers, but this is a writer's draft - shouldn't quality of actual writing be the focus?[/QUOTE]
The "other than elvish" part literally made me lol. I actually consider the. Writer and close friend of tolkein that bballer posted to be a much better writer.
Re: All-Time Writers Draft II
[QUOTE=Jailblazers7]The "other than elvish" part literally made me lol. I actually consider the. Writer and close friend of tolkein that bballer posted to be a much better writer.[/QUOTE]
As do I, the religious implications behind his work is fascinating as well. Very broad audience as well - can be read by elementary/middle schoolers but also be interpreted at a much higher level.
Re: All-Time Writers Draft II
[QUOTE=the GIBBET]:cletus:[/QUOTE]
finally something we can agree on. I love cletus! and even kinda look like him.
wait, so who picked homer? He may not have even existed, and his works are basically the early recordings of oral traditions. nonetheless, its hard to argue with some of the earliest writings from the foundational culture of western civ
Re: All-Time Writers Draft II
[QUOTE=sawyersauce]Tolkien is a stetch, for me.
He's just not a very good writer, his prose are pedestrian at his best (like the Hobbit) and rambling at worst (like the Silmarillion). The LOTR reads like a bestiary to me, all that detail on what a particular tree looks like, but not poetic detail, just flat out superfluous exposition. It's like a fictional history text book. I certainly wouldn't declare him the 'most creative writer of all time', maybe the most creative world-builder - but his actual writing is bland, compared to the innovation of, say Nabakov.
I suppose you can make some sort of argument based on the judging criteria, especially if popularity is considered. But I don't see him as an influential writer, certainly not influential over language (other than elvish), form and style.
He was a genius world-builder, and a decent narrative plotter. And I'm not one to completely dismiss genre writers, but this is a writer's draft - shouldn't quality of actual writing be the focus?[/QUOTE]
good post. I especially like your last point. The Silmarillion is basically unreadable (I dare all of you) unless you are obsessed with his fantasy world. but being able to build and communicate such a great alternate world certainly takes some level of articulate and well-written prose. and, please, i know you all skip the little songs/poems when you are reading his shit.
Re: All-Time Writers Draft II
Where Jasi be? I'd like to pick before bed.
Re: All-Time Writers Draft II
[QUOTE=boozehound]
wait, so who picked homer? He may not have even existed, and his works are basically the early recordings of oral traditions. nonetheless, its hard to argue with some of the earliest writings from the foundational culture of western civ[/QUOTE]
Not only that but the actual translation of The Iliad is a gargantuan text, written in verse. It's possible the guy who picked him has read it, but more likely that he's read some simplified newbery classics paperback version or something lol. So even if you want to credit the original work to "Homer," unless you've read the original unabridged work, it wouldn't make much sense to pick Homer as your author of choice based on reading someone else's abridged retelling of the story.
Combined with picking JRR Tolkien WHILE dismissing the other three??? it's a facepalm situation.
Re: All-Time Writers Draft II
[QUOTE=boozehound]finally something we can agree on. I love cletus! and even kinda look like him.
wait, so who picked homer? He may not have even existed, and his works are basically the early recordings of oral traditions. nonetheless, its hard to argue with some of the earliest writings from the foundational culture of western civ[/QUOTE]
I did. And I anticipated that point and cleared it up with the commish that I get credit for Homer as a literary figure whether he existed as a person or not.
As for the Tolkien stuff, I actually agree to a certain extent BUT the creative genius that it took to make that detailed of a world is beyond the scope of anything any writer has done before or since. Also, he started the modern version of fantasy which has become wildly popular. Again I will add that his criticisms and translations are being overlooked. He completely changed the way both Beowulf and Chaucer were viewed.
Re: All-Time Writers Draft II
[QUOTE=raiderfan19]I did. And I anticipated that point and cleared it up with the commish that I get credit for Homer as a literary figure whether he existed as a person or not.
As for the Tolkien stuff, I actually agree to a certain extent BUT the creative genius that it took to make that detailed of a world is beyond the scope of anything any writer has done before or since. Also, he started the modern version of fantasy which has become wildly popular. Again I will add that his criticisms and translations are being overlooked. He completely changed the way both Beowulf and Chaucer were viewed.[/QUOTE]
The thing is, creating/conceptualising middle-earth wasn't really an act of writing, it was an act of imagination - so I don't think it can be considered a literary achievement. Does that make sense? He should be judged on how he rendered that world in prose, via the Hobbit, LOTR, Silmarillion, ect.
I guess that is a whole debate unto itself, can content be seperated from the medium in which it is expressed?
Regardless, there is obviously a valid argument that Tolkien's contribution to the fantasy genre was significant. But his contribution to literature as a whole is a bit more ambivalant. In my opinion, I don't think he was an important or influential literary figure, but I guess the onus is on you.
Re: All-Time Writers Draft II
[QUOTE=sawyersauce]The thing is, creating/conceptualising middle-earth wasn't really an act of writing, it was an act of imagination - so I don't think it can be considered a literary achievement. Does that make sense? He should be judged on how he rendered that world in prose, via the Hobbit, LOTR, Silmarillion, ect.
I guess that is a whole debate unto itself, can content be seperated from the medium in which it is expressed?
Regardless, there is obviously a valid argument that Tolkien's contribution to the fantasy genre was significant. But his contribution to literature as a whole is a bit more ambivalant. In my opinion, I don't think he was an important or influential literary figure, but I guess the onus is on you.[/QUOTE]
I understand your argument and I can see why you would feel that way though I disagree with it. Also, to be fair I feel he did a MUCH better job of presenting Middle Earth then you are giving him credit for.
Re: All-Time Writers Draft II
2nd pick, I select [B]Dante Alighieri[/B].
[IMG]http://www.iuo.it/userfiles/workarea_228/DanteAlighieri(1).jpg[/IMG]
His Divine Comedy (1321) - the poetic description of his journey through Hell, Purgatory and Paradise, and originally called Commedia by the author, and nicknamed Divina by later writers - is unanimously considered the greatest literary work composed in the Italian language, and a masterpiece of world literature.
He himself is nicknamed "the Poet" par excellence.
Besides being the foundation of Italian literature, the Divine Comedy has had a huge influence also beyond Italy. While largely ignored during the Enlightenment, it
[QUOTE]was "rediscovered" by William Blake
Re: All-Time Writers Draft II
[QUOTE=Jasi]2nd pick, I select [B]Dante Alighieri[/B].
[IMG]http://www.iuo.it/userfiles/workarea_228/DanteAlighieri(1).jpg[/IMG]
His Divine Comedy (1321) - the poetic description of his journey through Hell, Purgatory and Paradise, and originally called Commedia by the author, and nicknamed Divina by later writers - is unanimously considered the greatest literary work composed in the Italian language, and a masterpiece of world literature.
He himself is nicknamed "the Poet" par excellence.
Besides being the foundation of Italian literature, the Divine Comedy has had a huge influence also beyond Italy. While largely ignored during the Enlightenment, it
Other notable works by Dante include:
Convivio
De monarchia
De vulgari eloquentia
La Vita Nuova
Le Rime[/QUOTE]
was gonna pick him next if he made it.