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-   -   Fact or Fiction: Knicks will step up defensively in the playoffs (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=213365)

Clutch 03-14-2011 09:30 AM

Fact or Fiction: Knicks will step up defensively in the playoffs
 
Many people (especially Knicks fans) say that Knicks will start to play good defense in the playoffs.

I think we should really discuss it.

Let's take a look at our defensive stats during the season:

Defensive rating: 21st
Opponent effective field goal percentage: 24th
Opponent turnover percentage: 9th
Defensive rebound percentage: 25th

Let's look our defensive performances against some elite teams:

MIAMI (2-2)
Average points allowed: 98.3
Average FG% allowed: 47.2%
Average 3-pt% allowed: 33.3%
Outrebounded by: 6.25

BOSTON (0-2)
Average points allowed: 111.5
Average FG% allowed: 50.2%
Average 3-pt % allowed: 40%
Outrebounded by: 10.0

CHICAGO (2-0)
Average points allowed: 103.5
Average FG% allowed: 47.7%
Average 3-pt % allowed: 39.4%
Outrebounded by: 4.0

And then some performances against poor teams:

CLEVELAND (0-3)
Average points allowed: 114.3
Average FG% allowed: 45.9%
Average 3-pt% allowed: 40.5%
Outrebounded by: 9.0

MINNESOTA (0-1)
Points allowed: 112
FG: 43.6%
3-pt: 40%
Outrebounded by: 13.0


Just by looking at stats you wouldn't tell we played good defense.Elite teams were shooting pretty much around 48% and a little under 40% from the 3-pt line.
Also,as much as we are afraid of Chicago's front court they have actually outrebounded us by the smallest margin of any other elite team in the East.
Maybe the reason is that Boozer didn't play in the first and Noah didn't play in the second game.
But in the first game Gibson had 10 rebounds,Boozer wouldn't get much more.

So,considering our coach is D'Antoni and roster we have,do you think we will/can step it up in the playoffs ?
Do you think this team can play good defense for 7 consecutive games ?

I know you will tell that I'm overreacting,but this has nothing to do with the game last night.
We have been inconsistent on defense,we couldn't play good defense for a few games in a row.
Knicks showed they can play good defensively,but they didn't show they can play like that consistently.
So,is this team able to play good defense every game when it matters ?
Discuss.

knickscity 03-14-2011 10:43 AM

Re: Fact or Fiction: Knicks will step up defensively in the playoffs
 
Regular season goes out the window in the playoffs, first and foremost.

The playoffs is having the best star players in the starting line-up, playing the most efficient basketball, along with role players holding their own.

On offense, ball control, movement and spacing is crucial.

Hitting the open shots and attacking the paint are keys as well.

Be on attack early in the game.

Offensively, that's all the Knicks have to do.

I can see them doing that for a whole series, no matter who they play.

Defensively...... contesting shots, containing penetration, and killing a teams momentum with the crucial stop.

Can they do that for a full series????

Not so sure, in fact doubt it because it isn't stressed even now.

NY-Knicks 03-14-2011 10:56 AM

Re: Fact or Fiction: Knicks will step up defensively in the playoffs
 
Fact, they stepped it up against the top teams in the East. I won't give them much of a chance in a 7 game series against those teams tho. Would be fantastic to win one but those teams are just very tough.

knickscity 03-26-2011 09:49 AM

Re: Fact or Fiction: Knicks will step up defensively in the playoffs
 
Might not make it, that is a reality.

It would be a monumental collapse though.

Bano114 03-26-2011 11:24 AM

Re: Fact or Fiction: Knicks will step up defensively in the playoffs
 
If the Knicks want to play well in the play-offs alot has to happen. First of all, they need to be alot more unselfish. Winning teams win because they give up the ball if a player has an open look instead of always trying to create space for a shot. The Celtics are a prime example of unselfish basketball. Their whole roster from top to bottom is willing to do what ever it takes to win, even if it means taking a dip in some stats.

Another aspect of the game that the Knicks need to improve is shot quality. This team has taken way to many bad shots over these last 17 games and it's really hurting our chances of winning. The offense looks out of sync and strait-up horrible at times. That's pathetic for a team with 2 of the most polished scorers in the league and one of the better offensive coaches in the NBA. Personally I believe it's been the lack of practice time and the time that this group has played together. The longest tenured Knick right now is Toney Douglas :facepalm . I expect the offense to be much better next year if the players stay commited and have a good training camp but I'm doubting the fact that they could get it together before the play-offs.

Lastly, the Knicks need to be more commited to the defensive part of the game if they want to win championships. Communication and match-ups are key to successful defense. Players need to know when to switch so that we can match-up better with what ever the other teams come at us with. I have seen to many times where a player has called a switch and a player hasnt switched, leaving a guy with an easy open shot. I doubt D'Antoni will ever get this team together defensivly, so he either has to go or the Knicks need to bring in an assistant coach who specializes on defense.

Knickscity I completely disagree that having all the star players is the key to winning. Teams need effecive gameplans on the offensive side which lead to good open looks and defensive stratagies that leave us with the best possible match-ups and keep men covered. Defense and Teamwork are the keys to success in the play-offs.

Prime example, the last Pistons championship team.

knickscity 03-26-2011 01:04 PM

Re: Fact or Fiction: Knicks will step up defensively in the playoffs
 
Bano, how do you disagree with me when you can only point to one championship in 3 decades?

All the rest have had a star and most cases than none had multiple stars.

Lets not act Detroit was the norm. Not even close.

Defense and team play is essential, but no stars to take over, hardly no rings.

Bano114 03-26-2011 01:22 PM

Re: Fact or Fiction: Knicks will step up defensively in the playoffs
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by knickscity
Bano, how do you disagree with me when you can only point to one championship in 3 decades?

All the rest have had a star and most cases than none had multiple stars.

Lets not act Detroit was the norm. Not even close.

Defense and team play is essential, but no stars to take over, hardly no rings.


Don't get me wrong. Stars definetly make winning a championship easier but its very likely that 2 teams will meet in the play-offs that have stars.

Let's say the Heat and the Celtics meet in the play-offs. Who do you think would win? Both teams have big 3's.

I could guarentee the Celtics beat the Heat because of the fact that they are commited to a system and are unselfish. The difference between the Celtics big 3 and Miami's is that the Celtics are willing to give up stats to win. Miami is a team that plays ISO ball on offense. Their offense was so predictable that the Celtics learned how to play against it. As a result the Celtics had tremendous success against the Heat this season. Why couldn't the Heat do the same to the Celtics? They have 2 great defenders on their team don't they? It's because with the Celtics, the ball can go to anybody. Their offense is based on exploiting the mistakes of the defense. That's why teams have to be on their A game against the Celtics.

I don't know if you heard this story but at the All-Star game practice for the East this year Doc Rivers called Rondo, Allen, Garnett and Pierce to the court and made Bosh, Wade and Lebron watch as the Celtics ran each play in the Heats offensive play-book. That's the type of effort neededto have success in the play-offs. You could have all the stars you want but if all your stars want is to run ISOs so they can get their numbers each game then your not going to have much success against a commited team in the play-offs.

knickscity 03-26-2011 02:14 PM

Re: Fact or Fiction: Knicks will step up defensively in the playoffs
 
Bano read my whole first post on this thread again.

We both agree it will be a team effort, but someone is gonna take over, chances are it wont be Big Baby.

Bano114 03-26-2011 05:25 PM

Re: Fact or Fiction: Knicks will step up defensively in the playoffs
 
I'm not sure if you understand what I'm trying to say. You can't point to stars in the play-offs because alot of the teams have a star.

It's almost like the advantage of having a star is canceled out because it's more than likely that a team with a star will face another team that has a star.

What happens at that point? Do they tie? No. The advantage teams should strive for is in team work. That is the difference between a win and a loss.

I also just thought of a perfect recent example to help explain my self. The Knicks have 2 stars right? Carmelo and Amar'e. According to your theory we should be playing pretty well right now but were not.

Do you know who just passed the Knicks in the standings? The 76ers. Who is really a superstar on that team? Nobody. So why have they surged so far up the standings and passed the Knicks? The team started to play together and guys know their roles.

What I'm trying to say is you can't act like just because we have Carmelo and Amar'e now that were going to hold our own in the play-offs. We are most likely vsing the Bulls or the Celtics in the first round. The way those teams play, we won't have a chance.:confusedshrug:

knickscity 03-26-2011 05:56 PM

Re: Fact or Fiction: Knicks will step up defensively in the playoffs
 
Bano read the entire post.

Its more than just star players.

They are the main pieces, but my post went way further.

Why are you stuck on the "best stars" part?

Unless you think you dont need star players at all.

Sarcastic 03-26-2011 06:23 PM

Re: Fact or Fiction: Knicks will step up defensively in the playoffs
 
Fiction. They need to get D'Antoni out of there, and if they step up in the playoffs, he will be back next year. Only way to get him out is to play below expectations.

Bano114 03-26-2011 07:28 PM

Re: Fact or Fiction: Knicks will step up defensively in the playoffs
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by knickscity
Bano read the entire post.

Its more than just star players.

They are the main pieces, but my post went way further.

Why are you stuck on the "best stars" part?

Unless you think you dont need star players at all.


I did read it but it looked like to me you were trying to say that having the stars is more valuable than having the team work.

I never said that you said team work wasn't important. What I'm saying is that having team work is more important than having the stars.

Think about it. 6th seed before the Melo trade, 7th seed after.:confusedshrug:

Scoooter 03-26-2011 10:30 PM

Re: Fact or Fiction: Knicks will step up defensively in the playoffs
 
This team isn't capable of "stepping it up defensively". Chauncey's too old, Melo's too fat, Amar'e's too stupid, and everyone who played with any kind of effort is in Denver now, winning.

This team is poorly constructed and terribly managed. I can't wait until it implodes completely and all the principles involved are unceremoniously run out of town. I hope the franchise itself folds and stops tainting the Yankees by association. We Knicks fans are a bunch of chumps for thinking they would ever be contenders. And I mean ever. Ev. Er.

:roll: :roll: Contender. Winning. Superstars. :roll: :roll:











All right, a nightly dose of negativity to temporarily quell the stifling disappointment. I'm good now. I'm good. James Dolan dammit ****ing shit ass balls. All good.

knickscity 03-26-2011 10:50 PM

Re: Fact or Fiction: Knicks will step up defensively in the playoffs
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bano114
I did read it but it looked like to me you were trying to say that having the stars is more valuable than having the team work.


How can this look like anything you were thinking.

It's in the same sentence. Look at the punctuations or something.

Bano this is exactly what I said.......
"The playoffs is having the best star players in the starting line-up, playing the most efficient basketball, along with role players holding their own."


Quote:

Originally Posted by Bano114
I never said that you said team work wasn't important. What I'm saying is that having team work is more important than having the stars.


Team work isn't more important.

Just about every bottom feeder team has good "team work", care to explain why they can't win more?

Why is Miami the third seed? Think it's just because of "team work"?

Talent and teamwork go hand in hand.

Chances are you will not win without either.

History of the game has shown that.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Bano114
Think about it. 6th seed before the Melo trade, 7th seed after.:confusedshrug:


You could just said this part, it would have indicated what your whole process has been the whole time.

MightyWhitey 03-27-2011 04:14 PM

Re: Fact or Fiction: Knicks will step up defensively in the playoffs
 
Pringles has no defensive strategy. Hence no d.


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