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-   -   D12 from the Nets/Lakers perspective (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=222342)

RecSpecs110 05-12-2011 09:51 PM

D12 from the Nets/Lakers perspective
 
Sorry, yeah it's another howard thread.

From the Nets perspective, the team's main strengths have been on the perimeter for some time, even going back a decade. Maybe the one thing lacking has been an inside presence, a force, an ability to play physical and not get pushed around. That's something Howard would give us. And also, i feel Howard would benefit from playing in the Net's system the most, playing with Deron, shooters, and slashers. Having a defensive minded coach in Avery, etc. It all makes sense.

Shouldn't the Lakers be going after Chris Paul? Isn't that how they lost to the Mavs? Stagnation on offense, not defending the 3 ball well? CP3 could provide both. I know Pau had a terrible series, but from an offensive standpoint, i don't see how Dwight could really help. His post game is still iffy at best, and the post is crucial in the triangle. Brook actually would be a much better fit IMO for the Lakers with Bynum. And you think Dwight's gonna benefit from watching kobe hog the ball?

RecSpecs110 05-12-2011 10:14 PM

Re: D12 from the Nets/Lakers perspective
 
I guess my point is that in light of the superteam trend, some of these trades don't make much sense. Like carmelo to the knicks, giving up all your depth for more offense and no defense. The Lakers' core is still pretty damn good and still would be a contender next year, so i don't know why they would need to blow it up.

It just sickens me how the one giant hurdle from us landing the piece we really need is a team that doesn't really even need him but is panicking because they lost one damn series. It sickens me even more that it's the Lakers. A team that has had years of success and has spoiled its fanbase without them paying any dues (getting Pau Gasol as a christmas gift). Arrogance has them thinking they should win it every year, and when they lose, like punks, they throw cheap shots and pretend they didn't do anything wrong.

And now they're favorites for landing Dwight? Its absolutely sickening. Please Dwight, if you're not coming to Brooklyn, just stay in Orlando

gigantes 05-13-2011 11:42 PM

Re: D12 from the Nets/Lakers perspective
 
i think the lakers are in much worse shape than most seem to believe, yet acquiring howard is not really the solution for them, either. not to mention, such a trade seems like a major logistical longshot anyway, barring santa claus showing up for christmas in july in beautiful downtown burbank.

if the reports about howard's favored destinations are correct (LA or NY), then the biggest obstacle to the nets getting him would seem to be howard himself -- he started the rumors in the first place, and now he's getting irritated that reporters keep following up on them. but when he decides to put his foot down, it should be a done deal in all but the compensation details.

i'm a little bit worried about those details, frankly. i mean, all hail the mighty d-will / howard combo, but the nets will still need some upgrades in other areas, and therefore can't afford to empty the vault even to get dwight-freaking-howard.

wang4three 05-14-2011 03:32 AM

Re: D12 from the Nets/Lakers perspective
 
If the Lakers go after Chris Paul, that means they're getting rid of the triangle. The Triangle is notorious for marginalizing the PG spot. If so, then the Lakers are probably going to go with Adelman instead of Brian Shaw.

I also don't understand why the Lakers are panicking. Their core is still strong as long as Pau returns to form. That 7-foot to 7-foot combo is unbeatable when they're on. Not to mention that Kobe can still wreak havoc on the wing. Pau holding the ball high and throwing it to Bynum who holds the ball higher is incredible. A twin tower setup that actually works. It's rare and trading the lot for Dwight would be a ton of weight for Dwight to shoulder. Basically asking Dwight to replace 35-40 pts and 20-23 rebounds on his own.

As for the Nets, I'd say give ORL almost anything they want outside of Deron. Really if you have two superstars like Deron and Dwight, the rest will fall into place. I assume we'd have to give up Brook and Hump, which I'm ok with. If we keep Morrow he can be the new Kerry Kittles of this generation. He wouldn't be able to play defense like Kerry did, but he could spot up, run on the break, and make an athletic play here and there. His defense isn't all that bad either. If we can get a borderline all-star 3 (thinking of someone like Deng, Iguodala, Wilson Chandler, or even J.R. Smith, Martell Webster, Marvin Williams, or Francisco Garcia) we should be all right.

Ofcourse all easier said than done, but if there's anything I learned from the last 20+ years of watching the NBA.. Win now, never later.

gigantes 05-17-2011 09:18 PM

Re: D12 from the Nets/Lakers perspective
 
just sitting here bored, waiting for the mavs to play. so i figure i'll add to my thoughts on the lakers:

the lakers are in big trouble, IMO. not 'trouble' in the sense that they're in any danger of becoming a mediocre team, but 'trouble' in that their current ability to challenge for the championship is over. the door has slammed shut. nothing personal, because i'm big fans of odom, gasol, and jackson, but i gotta be honest. so here's the main points of my reasoning:

- kobe bryant- he is still a superstar, obviously, but he creates larger and more complex challenges and problems for his team than ever before: 1) he stopped practicing this season because his knees are in dreadful condition, and it created a substantial disconnect between him and his team. part of that disconnect is simple common sense, but part is also borne out by comments by his teammates this past year, such as bynum. bottom line, beyond lack of team chemistry, there are still egos involved., 2) i don't watch the lakers that often but i do keep noticing the national writers remarking that kobe is not as clutch as he used to be. that the numbers are way down, and that the idea of giving him the ball in the closing moments is effectively turning into a mess for the lakers. anyone care to run that hypothesis through the stat sites? (i would be interesting to see what they say), 3) kobe makes almost $25m/y (the highest salary in all of basketball) and it's part of the reason that absolutely kills the lakers' cap and flexibility. for that kind of money, for someone who's now out of the top five players in the NBA (lebron, howard, wade, durant are the easy top four, with several others arguing for fifth place), you need a whole lot of other things to go right, including the rest of your roster being young, very talented, and underpaid- a situation that arises only occasionally and never lasts very long. by contrast, the lakers are one of the oldest and most highly paid rosters in the league- another thing which tends to make winning titles extra difficult.

- the price of the roster vs. its contracts vs. it's productivity vs. its flexibility. it's a jammed situation becoming more and more untenable by the month. consider the trio of gasol, odom, artest. that's $32m/y locked into three aging players, one of whom is playing better than ever (odom), another who is now a semi-useful shell of himself (artest), and one of whom is still very good but appears to be on the clear decline (gasol). how do you build around such players (great as they are / were), all locked into 3-4 year contracts, all pretty-much looking at getting a little less athletic with every coming year? yet these comments hardly describe the lakers' overall situation in being drastically overpaid and overcommited to virtually their entire roster. i mean, yes, the whole thing is a long discussion, with a lot of ins and outs, maude, but it's clearly a tangled mess with little daylight showing.

- low draft picks for several years and overcommitment to marginal players for too many years (walton 5m/y, blake 4m/y, fisher 4m/y. another killer towards trades, flexibility, and improvement.

- bynum: he is the one guy on the roster that is worthy of being built around in any way, shape, or form. even so, nobody can predict how that will go with his yearly injuries. i.e., do they magically get better? do they possibly get worse? do they start happening earlier in the season? do they keep happening around the playoffs? how does one even begin to guess, attain suitable backups, or even know how to pay them accordingly?

- jackson's gone. that's an obvious one, yet there's something that people still fail to appreciate about him, even now: his wizardly ability to manage egos and consistently get the very best out of his rosters. obviously that's a long discussion that deserves it's own thread / forums / book, but one thing i WILL point out is that jackson's the only coach ever able to coax championships out of the two best players and most arrogant egomaniacs in the game- jordan and kobe. and other than shaq's one title with another fantastic coach (riley), you can throw shaq into that group, as well. in essence, all three mega-superstars whiffed and whiffed again when jackson wasn't around to turn their egos into something more positive.

okay, the game is on and i'm out of time. i'll try to follow up later...

RecSpecs110 05-18-2011 12:50 AM

Re: D12 from the Nets/Lakers perspective
 
I agree but is dwight on board with this? I hope he doesn't fall for fools gold and join a descending laker team just because it's LA. I think phil jackson not being there is definitely going to affect their success. he was a coach you listen and play hard for. If they played uninspired ball this past year, imagine how uninspired they would be with the likes of brian shaw or rick adelman coaching. Plus with rick adelman, they'll have to change their offense completely and learn it on the fly.

On a side note, dirk nowitzki played like a king today. He played like jordan, bird, you name it. The guy was on drugs i tell you, just unstoppable. I'm pulling for the mavs to win it all, bc i want to see kidd win a ring, he deserves it. And dirk and company deserve it too, they have def paid their dues over their careers. I love kevin durant and okc, but they have many more years of success ahead of them.

gigantes 05-18-2011 05:20 PM

Re: D12 from the Nets/Lakers perspective
 
yep, that's why i've turned into a bit of a mavs fan- because of jason kidd. it's really amazing to see such a slow, old guy playing the speediest position in the game and yet still thriving. it's also been a pleasure to get better acquainted with dirk nowitzki's game. his jumper is absolutely godly, and the combination of kidd, tyson chicken and rick carlisle seem to compliment him superbly and hopefully form a 'toughness' that will get them over the hump this time.

worst comes to worst, i'll still be happy as long as lebron loses.

RecSpecs110 05-18-2011 09:38 PM

Re: D12 from the Nets/Lakers perspective
 
it's also kind of pissing me off that there's an influx of these shoot first point guards in the league like rose and westbrook, while deron and cp3 (who were supposed to be the new generation pgs) are getting less and less attention. young fans are being blinded from what a true point guard is supposed to do.

bring me back the days of nash and kidd anyday over this superstar tandem isolation heavy mess that this league is turning into.

gigantes 05-18-2011 10:26 PM

Re: D12 from the Nets/Lakers perspective
 
yea, and i doubt david stern is tossing and turning in his sleep at nights worrying about the issue.


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