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-   -   Dirk just took away Q's MAIN selling point in all his arguments... (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=226929)

lilbeastnani 06-13-2011 03:51 PM

Dirk just took away Q's MAIN selling point in all his arguments...
 
... And that's that a Euro, average defender and rebounder, perimeter oriented big man could NOT win a championship. Countless arguments where Q would state "I very much doubt it could happen, the closest thing is Dirk but even he couldn't get it done." Now that he actually HAS gotten it done, I think Q has been proven wrong once and for all. It can be done, but he won't do it by himself (obviously). A lot more moves need to be made but the traditional mold has finally been broken and people can see for themselves now that just because you haven't seen something done before doesn't mean it's impossible. GO DIRK!!!!!!!:banana:

bada bing 06-13-2011 03:57 PM

Re: Dirk just took away Q's MAIN selling point in all his arguments...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lilbeastnani
... And that's that a Euro, average defender and rebounder, perimeter oriented big man could NOT win a championship. Countless arguments where Q would state "I very much doubt it could happen, the closest thing is Dirk but even he couldn't get it done." Now that he actually HAS gotten it done, I think Q has been proven wrong once and for all. It can be done, but he won't do it by himself (obviously). A lot more moves need to be made but the traditional mold has finally been broken and people can see for themselves now that just because you haven't seen something done before doesn't mean it's impossible. GO DIRK!!!!!!!:banana:


Please do not compare Dirk Nowitzki to bargnani. Bargnani doesn't even deserve to be compared to Dirk's cup. Complete different level and motivation and desire to succeed. Bargs will never be at dirk's level.

lilbeastnani 06-13-2011 03:59 PM

Re: Dirk just took away Q's MAIN selling point in all his arguments...
 
I never said Bargnani = Dirk, I just said that Dirk got it done. And in the finals his defense was bad, and for a large part of the playoffs his rebounding was below average for a 7 footer. And he still got it done with the right pieces around him.

Reef 06-13-2011 04:12 PM

Re: Dirk just took away Q's MAIN selling point in all his arguments...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lilbeastnani
I never said Bargnani = Dirk, I just said that Dirk got it done. And in the finals his defense was bad, and for a large part of the playoffs his rebounding was below average for a 7 footer. And he still got it done with the right pieces around him.


I've read Q say numerous times that unlike Bargs, Dirk was good enough to build around.

Bargnani's offense is not as good as Dirk's. Dirk played well on team defense in the finals. He was rotating on time. If he didn't, the D would have collapsed. The D was excellent. Bargs is probably the worst team/help defender in the league. Dirk plays hard and with heart - concepts foreign to Vag.inani.

Skywalker 06-13-2011 04:26 PM

Re: Dirk just took away Q's MAIN selling point in all his arguments...
 
FCK OFF retard

Qwyjibo 06-13-2011 04:33 PM

Re: Dirk just took away Q's MAIN selling point in all his arguments...
 
Shame you can't ignore topic titles but oh well.

I don't think I've ever had doubts about Dirk. I used to call Bosh a "poor man's Dirk" (efficient scoring big man, who can rebound but doesn't give you too much defense) and was willing to for the Raptors to try to build around him. So why would I object for a team to build around the real Dirk?

Obviously this topic is geared at Bargnani being a focal point of the Raptors. The difference here is that Dirk is a much better scorer, a better rebounder and passer and much less of a liability on defense than Bargnani. They aren't even remotely close when it comes to production. Bosh is closer to Dirk so all those people who bashed him, should be in deep sadness at the though of Bargnani being the main guy.

lilbeastnani 06-13-2011 09:13 PM

Re: Dirk just took away Q's MAIN selling point in all his arguments...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Qwyjibo
Shame you can't ignore topic titles but oh well.

I don't think I've ever had doubts about Dirk. I used to call Bosh a "poor man's Dirk" (efficient scoring big man, who can rebound but doesn't give you too much defense) and was willing to for the Raptors to try to build around him. So why would I object for a team to build around the real Dirk?

Obviously this topic is geared at Bargnani being a focal point of the Raptors. The difference here is that Dirk is a much better scorer, a better rebounder and passer and much less of a liability on defense than Bargnani. They aren't even remotely close when it comes to production. Bosh is closer to Dirk so all those people who bashed him, should be in deep sadness at the though of Bargnani being the main guy.

:roll: That is a blatent lie. Yes, you did praise him and call him a superstar player, but to say you never doubted that he could win a championship as the main guy is a bold face lie. I don't even know if that's worth responding to.

Doko 06-13-2011 09:23 PM

Re: Dirk just took away Q's MAIN selling point in all his arguments...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lilbeastnani
:roll: That is a blatent lie. Yes, you did praise him and call him a superstar player, but to say you never doubted that he could win a championship as the main guy is a bold face lie. I don't even know if that's worth responding to.


I don't think Bargs and Dirk are comparable right now, but what lilbeastnani said here is true, I clearly remember it too.

Qwyjibo 06-13-2011 09:41 PM

Re: Dirk just took away Q's MAIN selling point in all his arguments...
 
Quote:

I clearly remember it too.

Dirk alone? Yea I never thought he could do it without another star player. Dirk as the best player on the team? Sure.

Again though, Bargnani is basically the poor man's Chris Bosh though. I don't see how Dallas winning means anything to the current Raptors.

EDIT: And I don't even remember talking about Dirk not being able to get it done due to his play-style. When you are that dynamic and efficient of a scorer and can do SOME of things required from your position, it doesn't matter too much. Please dig through my entire history of posts and let me know because I'm curious. I'll admit I didn't think Dirk could do it without help and he basically did (I don't think THAT much of his supporting cast). That was my reasoning for comparing Bosh to Dirk in the past. Their lack of help even though Dirk has always been the more productive player.

lilbeastnani 06-13-2011 09:48 PM

Re: Dirk just took away Q's MAIN selling point in all his arguments...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Qwyjibo
Dirk alone? Yea I never thought he could do it without another star player. Dirk as the best player on the team? Sure.

Again though, Bargnani is basically the poor man's Chris Bosh though. I don't see how Dallas winning means anything to the current Raptors.

You said countless times that you don't see a perimeter big man as a winning formula and that the closest thing to that is Dirk BUT that it never worked out. That was/is my whole point. It's not just that you said "Dirk can't do it without help." It's that you said as a blue print to a championship, it's been historically proven that you can't win with that kind of guy as the head honcho. You preach about how it's a perimeter players league and that all you need your bigs to do is defend and rebound (like saying that Ed Davis/Amir Johnson would be an acceptable front court with better back court players around them). So how it's relevant to this discussion is that you've been proven wrong and it can and will be done again in the future.

Qwyjibo 06-13-2011 10:08 PM

Re: Dirk just took away Q's MAIN selling point in all his arguments...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Doko
I don't think Bargs and Dirk are comparable right now, but what lilbeastnani said here is true, I clearly remember it too.

But if you mean my whole spiel about building a conventional team with perimeter scoring in the backcourt and rebounding and defense in the frontcourt then yea, and I'm not wrong. If you go back and look at the top 4 (Conf. Finalists) of the past 10+ years or so, how many of them have been built around a perimeter oriented big man?

Dallas and... ummm... Dallas. Chris Webber maybe? Sorta. Hmmmm, maybe Portland that year they lost to the Lakers? But even then Rasheed was more of a post-up guy and didn't chuck 3's. Help me out here.

So basically it takes a once in a generation type player like Dirk to put a tiny little dent in the obvious trend that teams with defensive and rebounding big men almost always being the most successful. Thanks for reaffirming my point of view.

lilbeastnani 06-13-2011 10:18 PM

Re: Dirk just took away Q's MAIN selling point in all his arguments...
 
You are wrong because you said it couldn't happen and it happened. Period. Just accept it, admit it, and move forward.

lilbeastnani 06-13-2011 10:23 PM

Re: Dirk just took away Q's MAIN selling point in all his arguments...
 
And guess what, to you're last point? Tim Duncan? Shell of his former self. Shaq? Retired. There are very few great perimeter offensive big men left in this game and that's why in large part a guy like Dirk has a supreme advantage over any team in the league. The Heat for example didn't have to worry about guarding a big man with as much offensive versatility as Dirk in the first, second, or third round nor would they have to worry about that against 90% of the teams in the league. So a guy like Bargnani is actually a rare breed, no matter whether you hate him or not. Put the right pieces around him, and you might have something special. I specifically remember Bosh/Bargnani together giving a lot of teams problems.

Prodigy 06-13-2011 11:28 PM

Re: Dirk just took away Q's MAIN selling point in all his arguments...
 
You know what? Beastnani is right. We're winning the championship next year. Let's start celebrating.

lilbeastnani 06-14-2011 12:02 AM

Re: Dirk just took away Q's MAIN selling point in all his arguments...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Prodigy
You know what? Beastnani is right. We're winning the championship next year. Let's start celebrating.

Man you idiots can't even acknowledge when a good point has been made. :facepalm Nowhere in this thread do you see me saying Dirk = Bargnani. Nowhere in this thread have I said Raptors = a championship team. NOWHERE. So I don't even know where that stupid shit is coming from. All I said is that Dirk broke the mold of a perimeter oriented big not being able to win the chip. People act like Dirk's D and rebounding has gotten so much better over the past 5 years since he lost to the Heat. Truth be told, the only thing that I can see that has changed since from Dirk is his resolve. He's more calm and collected during the big moments. But other than that, it's his teammates. Dirk's D and rebounding are still average to below average. But you stick Tyson Chandler, Shawn Marion (Caron Butler), Deshawn Stevenson and Jason Kidd next to him in the starting lineup and all of a sudden you have 4 guys who can do the dirty work leaving Dirk to focus on his offense. Whose to say that with a similar setup (WHICH I KNOW WE DON'T HAVE NOW!!!!) we couldn't do the same thing?


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