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Re: Greg Popovich Agrees That NBA Champions Are Not The "World Champions"
[QUOTE=RoseCity07]I agree. The NBA has the best players but the rules at times make this league look like a joke. There is a reason NBA players can go over to Europe and look like trash. It's because they don't let stars get 20 free throws a game. You have to be a baller.
A average NBA in the olympics would get owned. That's why the USA sends a super team to play in FIBA olympic games.[/QUOTE]
And other counties dont send there best players either?
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Re: Greg Popovich Agrees That NBA Champions Are Not The "World Champions"
Dallas defeated Miami to win the title, awarded to the best team from a 30-team North American league. Of course they should be called World Champions...
...if you're an idiot
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Re: Greg Popovich Agrees That NBA Champions Are Not The "World Champions"
[QUOTE=RoseCity07]I agree. The NBA has the best players but the rules at times make this league look like a joke. There is a reason NBA players can go over to Europe and look like trash. It's because they don't let stars get 20 free throws a game. You have to be a baller.
[B]A average NBA in the olympics would get owned. That's why the USA sends a super team to play in FIBA olympic games.[/B][/QUOTE]
Woops, didn't read this the first time I quoted you. I don't agree with this. Team USA might send a super team, but they're a TEAM now; in the past, when USA wasn't as dominant, it was due to just trying to throw a team together that never actually gelled or played as team. Now Team USA actually gets stars, but also selects role players for their team too, and gets a good combination of players.
I think an average NBA team would be able to do pretty solidly at the Olympics because they're an actual team, not just a bunch of superstars chucked together. They have role players, a star (generally), grinders, playmakers, etc.
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Re: Greg Popovich Agrees That NBA Champions Are Not The "World Champions"
[QUOTE=32MJ32]Dallas defeated Miami to win the title, awarded to the best team from a 30-team North American league. Of course they should be called World Champions...
...if you're an idiot[/QUOTE]
I don't get why it's so hard for people to understand that the best players in the World strive to play in the NBA, and do, so in some sense the team that wins can definitely be referred to as a World Champion.
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Re: Greg Popovich Agrees That NBA Champions Are Not The "World Champions"
[QUOTE=Derrick]And other counties dont send there best players either?[/QUOTE]
The only countries that tend to send most of their top players are ones like China, Australia, Argentina. Even then, it's not normal for any team to have all its best players in a tournament. The European teams almost never send all of their best players, except if it happens once very rarely.
Like last summer I would say Spain sent their best players, but that's not normal. It's extremely rare to see a top level European national team send all of its best players to the Olympics. It just does not hardly ever happen.
In fact, the USA sends just as much of their best players as most of those European teams do. I'm not sure where this myth came from that all the teams "send all their best players" to the Olympics came from, whether it was from NBA marketing or just delusional imaginations of Americans, but it's not true in the least.
Believe it or not, other countries have tired players, players that are injured, players that don't want to play, players that quit their team, players that the coach does not like, players that hate the coach, players that get suspended, etc. too. Just like the USA.
It's quite bizarre that anyone would actually seriously believe that all the countries can just always "send all their best players". It's complete nonsense.
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Re: Greg Popovich Agrees That NBA Champions Are Not The "World Champions"
[QUOTE=skan72]I don't get why it's so hard for people to understand that the best players in the World strive to play in the NBA, and do, so in some sense the team that wins can definitely be referred to as a World Champion.[/QUOTE]
How come the team that wins the Champions League is not called the world champion then?
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Re: Greg Popovich Agrees That NBA Champions Are Not The "World Champions"
Being a world champion is lame. You are just hanging out with all the people that couldn't cut it in the NBA.
Being an NBA champion, however, is purely elite and is something much more awesome than being the world champion in a world filled with sub par teams who's best players would die to be in the NBA.
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Re: Greg Popovich Agrees That NBA Champions Are Not The "World Champions"
[QUOTE=Euroleague]Even though [B]it never has happened, that the current season champs of each league played each other[/B], if you want to, just for the sake of debate and discussion.............
[B]1. 1978-79 season:[/B]
[B]Summary:[/B]
Maccabi Tel Aviv (Maccabi did not win Euroleague in either 1977-78 or 1978-79)
beat the Washington Bullets (1977-78 NBA champions and 1978-79 NBA Finals runners-up).
[B]Score:[/B] 98-97
[B]Details:[/B] On Maccabi's home floor, playing under 50/50 NBA/FIBA rules and with NBA refs.
[B]2. 1997-98 season [/B]
[B]Summary:[/B]
Chicago Bulls (1996-97 NBA champions and 1997-98 NBA champions)
beat Olympiacos (1996-97 Euroleague champions) (but Olympiacos had a different roster than the previous season) .
[B]Score:[/B] 104-78
[B]Details:[/B] Game was played with 50/50 NBA/FIBA rules and with NBA refs. Played in Europe, at a neutral site.
[B]3. 2007-08 season [/B]
[B]Summary:[/B]
San Antonio Spurs (2006-07 NBA champions)
beat Panathinaikos (2006-07 Euroleague champions) .
[B]Score:[/B] 113-91
[B]Details:[/B] Game was played with NBA rules, with NBA refs, on the Spurs home court.
[B]4. 2010-11 season[/B]
[B]
Summary:[/B]
Barcelona Basket (2009-10 Euroleague champions)
beat Los Angeles Lakers (2009-10 NBA champions).
[B]Score:[/B] 92-88
[B]Details:[/B] Game was played with 60/40 NBA/FIBA rules and with 2/1 NBA/FIBA refs. Played in Barcelona's home city, at a neutral court, but not with the club's typical fan base in attendance.[/QUOTE]
In response to the game played vs the bulls and olympiakos, how much different was their roster? Even still now that I think about it, chicagos roster was different too. Pippen wasn't there, and brian williams signed with detroit. Those were two guys that played big roles in the 96-97 bulls title run.
And what do you mean when you say the lakers played in the opposing team on their homecourt, but without their fans? Did they not allow the home teams fans to watch the game?
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Re: Greg Popovich Agrees That NBA Champions Are Not The "World Champions"
[QUOTE=Euroleague]How come the team that wins the Champions League is not called the world champion then?[/QUOTE]
I do believe that the nba champs aren't "world" champs. But the nba does have the best players. And based on your info, id say the only two teams that can call themselves legit world champs were the bulls and spurs.
I would even go so far to say that the team that beat the lakers in 10 can be considered the "world" champs.
But that lakers roster was different too. Using your reasoning
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Re: Greg Popovich Agrees That NBA Champions Are Not The "World Champions"
[QUOTE=emaugust]Being a world champion is lame. You are just hanging out with all the people that couldn't cut it in the NBA.
Being an NBA champion, however, is purely elite and is something much more awesome than being the world champion in a world filled with sub par teams who's best players would die to be in the NBA.[/QUOTE]
That's the bottom line.
Dirk Nowitzki is getting more recognition as the man on NBA championship team than Pau Gasol world championship team.
No one gives a crap about those FIBA tourney. Most NBA players want to hang Olympic gold medal around their neck and don't bother to do it again.
But the ultimate goal for every NBA player is leading their team to NBA championship.
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Re: Greg Popovich Agrees That NBA Champions Are Not The "World Champions"
[QUOTE=97 bulls]In response to the game played vs the bulls and olympiakos, how much different was their roster? Even still now that I think about it, chicagos roster was different too. Pippen wasn't there, and brian williams signed with detroit. Those were two guys that played big roles in the 96-97 bulls title run.
And what do you mean when you say the lakers played in the opposing team on their homecourt, but without their fans? Did they not allow the home teams fans to watch the game?[/QUOTE]
Olympiacos, after they won the 1997 Euroleague title, cut their budget by a lot and several of their best players left the team.
Here is the game report in French:
[url]http://www2.raisport.rai.it/news/sport/basket/199710/18/3448e6dd02887/[/url]
Yes, Pippen and Williams were not there, but Olympiacos' team was missing these players from the previous season's championship team:
Sigalas, Papanikolaou, Galakteros, Anderson, Gray, Fasoulas, Welp, Rivers... from the previous season's championship team. For example, Sigalas was the Greek League MVP, he was gone. Rivers was the Euroleague Final Four MVP, he was gone. Willie Anderson, who came from the NBA, was gone, etc.
So yeah, obviously not the same team. The best players of the previous season's championship were not even there.
I mean that Barcelona played at an arena in their city, that they have used in the past, but not in their home seat. This is European basketball, not the NBA. You don't have a home crowd by just being in your home city. You have to be in the arena where your fan base is concentrated. It was basically a neutral home court for them.
You are talking about casual observers going to see the Lakers play, versus what would be die hard Barca club supporters. It's a totally different comparison.
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Re: Greg Popovich Agrees That NBA Champions Are Not The "World Champions"
I agree with Popovich. If you win a NBA title you're not a world champion. A NBA title means so much more than a World Title anyway because the talent in the NBA is far and above better than everywhere else.
NBA Champs > World Champs
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Re: Greg Popovich Agrees That NBA Champions Are Not The "World Champions"
[QUOTE=Meticode]I agree with Popovich. If you win a NBA title you're not a world champion. A NBA title means so much more than a World Title anyway because the talent in the NBA is far and above better than everywhere else.
NBA Champs > World Champs[/QUOTE]
Yeah, but wouldn't that give the NBA championship a world championship status considering the fact that it is the most prestige of all basketball championships? Every player in the world wants to be an NBA champion.
Dirk said it was his dream to win an NBA title ever since he was a kid.
People keep using regional competition as the reason not to call an NBA title a world championship but do you honestly think it's possible to have the NBA have teams in Europe, Asia, Australia, South America and have an 82-game season? It's impossible. [B]They would have to set everything up like the World Cup and play every 4 years[/B]. And we'd only gonna get 3 weeks to one month of world competition anyway, the rest of the season would be regional competition.
NBA championship being the top prize championship is enough to be a world championship status, in my opinion.
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Re: Greg Popovich Agrees That NBA Champions Are Not The "World Champions"
[QUOTE=Euroleague]Olympiacos, after they won the 1997 Euroleague title, cut their budget by a lot and several of their best players left the team.
I mean that Barcelona played at an arena in their city, that they have used in the past, but not in their home seat. This is European basketball, not the NBA. You don't have a home crowd by just being in your home city. You have to be in the arena where your fan base is concentrated. It was basically a neutral home court for them.
It's not even possibly to compare it to a game played at their own home court. You are talking about casual observers going to see the Lakers play, versus what would be die hard club supporters. It's a totally different comparison.
Here is the game report in French:
[url]http://www2.raisport.rai.it/news/sport/basket/199710/18/3448e6dd02887/[/url]
Yes, Pippen and Williams were not there, but Olympiacos' team was missing these players from the previous season's championship team:
Bakatsias, Sigalas, Papanikolaou, Galakteros, Anderson, Gray, Fasoulas, Welp, Rivers, Zourpenko... from the previous season's championship team. For example, Sigalas was the Greek League MVP, he was gone. Rivers was the Euroleague Final Four MVP, he was gone. Willie Anderson, who came from the NBA, was gone, etc.
So yeah, obviously not the same team.[/QUOTE]
Actually, Pippen, Williams, and Rodman weren't there. And the bulls still won by a blowout. That win was legit.
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Re: Greg Popovich Agrees That NBA Champions Are Not The "World Champions"
[QUOTE=DMV2]Yeah, but wouldn't that give the NBA championship a world championship status considering the fact that it is the most prestige of all basketball championships? Every player in the world wants to be an NBA champion.
Dirk said it was his dream to win an NBA title ever since he was a kid.
People keep using regional competition as the reason not to call an NBA title a world championship but do you honestly think it's possible to have the NBA have teams in Europe, Asia, Australia, South America and have an 82-game season? It's impossible. [B]They would have to set everything up like the World Cup and play every 4 years[/B]. And we'd only gonna get 3 weeks to one month of world competition anyway, the rest of the season would be regional competition.
NBA championship being the top prize championship is enough to be a world championship status, in my opinion.[/QUOTE]
FIBA wanted to setup a world club championship every year, just like how UEFA has one for football (soccer). The NBA was the only league that refused to agree to it, so it never happened.
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Re: Greg Popovich Agrees That NBA Champions Are Not The "World Champions"
[QUOTE=97 bulls]Actually, Pippen, Williams, and Rodman weren't there. And the bulls still won by a blowout. That win was legit.[/QUOTE]
OK, so like the 5 best players from the championship team of Olympiacos the previous season were also not there. The Bulls won the NBA title that same season of 97-98. Olympiacos did not win the Euroleague title that season.
I'm not sure what your point is. Of course the win was "legit". But it sure the hell was not against the team that won the Euroleague title. It seems you are having some problems grasping that.
Olympiacos, with that new roster, did not even come remotely close to winning the Euroleague title that year. Yes, it was a legit win...over just a decent Euroleague team.
That's the point. It looks like the NBA champ played the Euroleague champ, but they did not. Besides, I counted that as a win in the NBA's astonishing 2-2 record there anyway. In reality, it should not even be counted, and neither should the Spurs-Panathinaikos game, because it was all under NBA rules and refs.
Strangely enough, the only 2 times that NBA championship teams played with their core players against the Euroleague....they lost. Bullets to Maccabi and Lakers to Barca.
I was being generous and overly giving in gifting the NBA those other 2 wins. Because they are actually 0-2 when they played with the cores of title teams against good Euroleague teams. Maccabi did not win any titles those 2 years, but they did win something like 2 out of 5 within that general era, so I counted it.
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Re: Greg Popovich Agrees That NBA Champions Are Not The "World Champions"
[QUOTE=Euroleague]FIBA wanted to setup a world club championship ever year, just like how UEFA has won for soccer. The NBA was the only league that refused to agree to it, so it never happened.[/QUOTE]
the reason is sportsmanship. :oldlol: Why do NBA keep rubbing it in against hopeless scrubs from Europe. :facepalm
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Re: Greg Popovich Agrees That NBA Champions Are Not The "World Champions"
Dont let this euroleague guy get under your skin, your playing right into his troll hands. It's obvious every thread he makes has an agenda and he's not exactly stupid, he's aware of what he is doing and how people will interpret it ; it's his mission. So when you reply to his trolling, accusing him off being exactly what he is, it fuels his fire. He smiles for the fish he just reeled in.
Doesn't take a genius to see how biased he is, frankly he aint shy about it either because what he's doing is trying to #$@% with your head
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Re: Greg Popovich Agrees That NBA Champions Are Not The "World Champions"
[QUOTE=Rooster]the reason is sportsmanship. :oldlol: Why do NBA keep rubbing it in against hopeless scrubs from Europe. :facepalm[/QUOTE]
FIBA offered the NBA $10 million, as a prize to winning the tournament. $5 million for the NBA if they won, and $5 million to the winning NBA team. They still refused.
It's pretty obvious why the NBA refused.
[url]http://www.nba.com/games/20101007/LALBAR/gameinfo.html#nbaGIboxscore[/url]
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Re: Greg Popovich Agrees That NBA Champions Are Not The "World Champions"
[QUOTE=Euroleague]OK, so like the 5 best players from the championship team of Olympiacos the previous season were also not there. The Bulls won the NBA title that same season of 97-98. Olympiacos did not win the Euroleague title that season.
I'm not sure what your point is. Of course the win was "legit". But it sure the hell was not against the team that won the Euroleague title. It seems you are having some problems grasping that.
Olympiacos, with that new roster, did not even come remotely close to winning the Euroleague title that year. Yes, it was a legit win...over just a decent Euroleague team.
That's the point. It looks like the NBA champ played the Euroleague champ, but they did not. Besides, I counted that as a win in the NBA's astonishing 2-2
record there anyway. In reality, it should not even be counted, and neither should the Spurs-Panathinaikos game, because it was all under NBA rules and refs.
Strangely enough, the only 2 times that NBA championship teams played with
their core players against the Euroleague....they lost. Bullets to Maccabi and Lakers to Barca.
I was being generous and overly giving in gifting the NBA those other 2 wins. Because they are actually 0-2 when they played with the cores of title teams
against good Euroleague teams. Maccabi did not win any titles those 2 years, but they did win something like 2 out of 5 within that general era, so I counted it.[/QUOTE]
You actually think Maccabi was so good on that era. :lol This like 8 years before the corpse of McAdoo dominated the Euroleague.:facepalm
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Re: Greg Popovich Agrees That NBA Champions Are Not The "World Champions"
[QUOTE=Euroleague]OK, so like the 5 best players from the championship team of Olympiacos the previous season were also not there. The Bulls was on the NBA title that same season of 97-98. Olympiacos did not win the Euroleague title that season.
I'm not sure what your point is. Of course the win was "legit". But it sure the hell was not against the team that won the Euroleague title. It seems you are having some problems grasping that.
Olympiacos, with that new roster, did not even come remotely close to winning the Euroleague title that year. Yes, it was a legit win...over just a decent Euroleague team.
That's the point. It looks like the NBA champ played the Euroleague champ, but they did not. Besides, I counted that as a win in the NBA's astonishing 2-2 record there anyway. In reality, it should not even be counted, and neither should the Spurs-Panathinaikos game because it was all under NBA rules and refs.
Strangely enough, the only 2 times that NBA champ teams played with their core players against the Euroleague....they lost. Bullets to Maccabi and Lakers to Barca.
I was being generous and overly giving in gifting the NBA those other 2 wins. Because they are actually 0-2 when they played with cores of title teams against good Euroleague teams. Maccabi did not win any titles those 2 years, but they did win something like 2 out of 5 within that general era, so I counted it.[/QUOTE]
My point is in response to your implicaation that had that olympiakos team had their team totally intact, it mightve changed the outcome. I beg to differ. I'm not gonna sit here and say that I'm efficient on knowledge of the players you mentioned, but id be willing to bet they don't amount to pippen, rodman, and williams. And as I said before, chicago still blew that team out. Its not like that game was close.
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Re: Greg Popovich Agrees That NBA Champions Are Not The "World Champions"
[QUOTE=Euroleague]FIBA offered the NBA $10 million, as a prize to winning the tournament. $5 million for the NBA if they won, and $5 million to the winning NBA team. They still refused.
It's pretty obvious why the NBA refused.
[url]http://www.nba.com/games/20101007/LALBAR/gameinfo.html#nbaGIboxscore[/url][/QUOTE]
What the hell is 5million meant to NBA. Lakers are throwing Luke 5.8 mil and he ain't worth a crap. :facepalm
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Re: Greg Popovich Agrees That NBA Champions Are Not The "World Champions"
[QUOTE=DMV2]Yeah, but wouldn't that give the NBA championship a world championship status considering the fact that it is the most prestige of all basketball championships? Every player in the world wants to be an NBA champion[/QUOTE]
No. A World Championship is totally different than a NBA Championship. A NBA Championship is far more greater. I think when people see "World Champion" they automatically want to put that in the notion that it's better to bigger, and it isn't.
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Re: Greg Popovich Agrees That NBA Champions Are Not The "World Champions"
Anyone not trolling knows the NBA is the best league in the world AND Popovich is right in saying they aren't technically world champions. They still could beat anyone in the world however.
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Re: Greg Popovich Agrees That NBA Champions Are Not The "World Champions"
[QUOTE=Meticode]No. A World Championship is totally different than a NBA Championship. A NBA Championship is far more greater. I think when people see "World Champion" they automatically want to put that in the notion that it's better to bigger, and it isn't.[/QUOTE]
Yes even the college version of Kenny Smith was a world champion and nobody gives a crap.
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Re: Greg Popovich Agrees That NBA Champions Are Not The "World Champions"
[QUOTE=97 bulls]My point is in response to your implicaation that had that olympiakos team had their team totally intact, it mightve changed the outcome. I beg to differ. I'm not gonna sit here and say that I'm efficient on knowledge of the players you mentioned, but id be willing to bet they don't amount to pippen, rodman, and williams. And as I said before, chicago still blew that team out. Its not like that game was close.[/QUOTE]
I never mentioned anything about the outcome being different, about the win not being legit, or not being a blowout. I have no idea what you are arguing about.
And yes, the fact that Olympiacos lost the Greek League MVP, the Euroleague MVP and basically their entire 5 best players....
Sigalas for example, was the guy that was named Greek League MVP in the same season that Dominique Wilkins played in Greece. Wilkins was in the same league, yet Sigalas was the MVP, and not Wilkins.
[B]So yeah, believe it or not, those were also very significant absences[/B]. How you could seem to imply that a team playing without 2 MVPs from the previous season would not be much of an absence is a bit strange. And again, I never said anything about it not being a legit win or whatever. You are arguing with yourself.
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Re: Greg Popovich Agrees That NBA Champions Are Not The "World Champions"
[QUOTE=Rooster]You actually think Maccabi was so good on that era. :lol This like 8 years before the corpse of McAdoo dominated the Euroleague.:facepalm[/QUOTE]
They were good enough to beat the same Washington Bullets team that went to the NBA Finals in back to back years and won an NBA championship.
So yeah, apparently if they were no good, then the NBA must have really been horrible crap in that time.
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Re: Greg Popovich Agrees That NBA Champions Are Not The "World Champions"
[QUOTE=Meticode]No. A World Championship is totally different than a NBA Championship. A NBA Championship is far more greater. I think when people see "World Champion" they automatically want to put that in the notion that it's better to bigger, and it isn't.[/QUOTE]
This is a strong point. The nba championship does hold more weight than the "world championship" tag.
Does Ali's heavyweight tilte hold less weight cyz he beat foreman and not some asian?
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Re: Greg Popovich Agrees That NBA Champions Are Not The "World Champions"
[QUOTE=Euroleague]I never mentioned anything about the outcome being different, about the win not being legit, or not being a blowout. I have no idea what you are arguing about.
And yes, the fact that Olympiacos lost the Greek League MVP, the Euroleague MVP and basically their entire 5 best players....
Sigalas for example, was the guy that was named Greek League MVP in the same season that Dominique Wilkins played in Greece. Wilkins was in the same league, yet Sigalas was the MVP, and not Wilkins.
[B]So yeah, believe it or not those were also very significant absences[/B]. How you could seem to imply that a team playing without 2 MVPs from the previous season would not be much of an absence is a bit strange. And again, I never said anything about it not being a legit win or whatever. You are arguing with
yourself.[/QUOTE]
Who gives a crap about Greek crap.:facepalm Nique came to Europe and dominated. That was his corpse.:bowdown:
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Re: Greg Popovich Agrees That NBA Champions Are Not The "World Champions"
[QUOTE=Rooster]Who gives a crap about Greek crap.:facepalm Nique came to Europe and dominated. That was his corpse.:bowdown:[/QUOTE]
FYI, you just earned an ignore list. Trolling and derailing this thread will not be tolerated.
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Re: Greg Popovich Agrees That NBA Champions Are Not The "World Champions"
[QUOTE=Euroleague]They were good enough to beat the same Washington Bullets team that went to the NBA Finals in back to back years and won an NBA championship.
So yeah, apparently if they were no good, then the NBA must have really been horrible crap in that time.[/QUOTE]
Yes so horrible that the prime version of McAdoo can't even beat them. Give yourselves a break. The college boys were beating everyone during these days, you must forgot how Jordan beating those Euro softies left and right by 28 points.:roll:
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Re: Greg Popovich Agrees That NBA Champions Are Not The "World Champions"
[QUOTE=Euroleague]FYI, you just earned an ignore list. Trolling and derailing this thread will not be tolerated.[/QUOTE]
NBA champion > World Champion. :violin:
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Re: Greg Popovich Agrees That NBA Champions Are Not The "World Champions"
[QUOTE=Euroleague]I never mentioned anything about the outcome being different, about the win not being legit, or not being a blowout. I have no idea what you are arguing about.
And yes, the fact that Olympiacos lost the Greek League MVP, the Euroleague MVP and basically their entire 5 best players....
Sigalas for example, was the guy that was named Greek League MVP in the same season that Dominique Wilkins played in Greece. Wilkins was in the same league, yet Sigalas was the MVP, and not Wilkins.
[B]So yeah, believe it or not, those were also very significant absences[/B]. How you could seem to imply that a team playing without 2 MVPs from the previous season would not be much of an absence is a bit strange. And again, I never said anything about it not being a legit win or whatever. You are arguing with yourself.[/QUOTE]
I realize that that teams losses were significant. But so were the bulls not having three of their top players, (with 2 being hofers)
I think you're misunderstanding me. Allow me this question. Do you feel that with both teams at full strength, olympikos would win?
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Re: Greg Popovich Agrees That NBA Champions Are Not The "World Champions"
[QUOTE=Euroleague]FYI, you just earned an ignore list. Trolling and derailing this thread will not be tolerated.[/QUOTE]
He does bring up a good point. Wasnt nique like 40?
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Re: Greg Popovich Agrees That NBA Champions Are Not The "World Champions"
[QUOTE=97 bulls]He does bring up a good point. Wasnt nique like 40?[/QUOTE]
He was 36, and the NEXT year AFTER that, he averaged more than 18 points per game in the NBA.