MJ was considered G.O.A.T while he still play in league in 80s,90s [B]by NBA player, analyst [/B] and the fan. And this all before Internet. He didn't have to wait 20 yrs for recognition.
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MJ was considered G.O.A.T while he still play in league in 80s,90s [B]by NBA player, analyst [/B] and the fan. And this all before Internet. He didn't have to wait 20 yrs for recognition.
Kobe will probably be considered as a top 5 player of all-time 5-10 years later after he retires. I don't think he is though or should be but that is the way it probably will be. The I miss you factor is pretty huge when judging greatness especially all-time greatness.
Kobe only has himself to blame for not being considered top 5 of all-time in this current day though. I think Kobe is the most skilled player of all-time but his IQ is what ultimately holds him back. If Kobe had the same brain and IQ that MJ had, Kobe would be a top 5 player of all-time at the very least. The MJ-Kobe comparison would actually be valid although MJ would still win that comparison to me and by most I suspect.
[QUOTE=thelucifer69]MJ was considered G.O.A.T while he still play in league in 80s,90s [B]by NBA player, analyst [/B] and the fan. And this all before Internet. He didn't have to wait 20 yrs for recognition.[/QUOTE]
Also that he was also considered the GOAT by many, before he even won his first championship.
There was even a thread of forum post from the 80s and 90s... Here's a quote.
[QUOTE]Here is just one post. Pretty interesting stuff reading what people thought back there. A lot of posts calling out Jordan before he had a title, yet some still thought he was the GOAT basketball player even when losing to the bad boy pistons. Oh and EVERYONE hated the pistons[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=227563[/url]
[QUOTE=SuperPippen]GOAT basketball playing rapist, maybe.
:D[/QUOTE]
He would have raped Jordan in basketball... :bowdown:
Oh, wait. He did. :D
[QUOTE=zay_24]this[/QUOTE]
:applause:
[QUOTE=LABean]He would have raped Jordan in basketball... :bowdown:
Oh, wait. He did. :D
:applause:[/QUOTE]
:facepalm
IMO, Kobe is one of those players that will be more highly rated in his own era then afterwards.
[QUOTE=Ne 1]Actually if he passes Kareem on the all-time scoring list and wins 6 rings, I think large majority of casual fans and media pundits probably would hype him to that be the GOAT. But even if he were to accomplish that I wouldn't consider him to be the GOAT, but I'm just saying that's would the public perception could very well be.[/QUOTE]
People were rioting and waiting in 3 hour long lines this past winter, yes WINTER for a pair of these:
[IMG]http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41SMnEbX8TL._SY395_.jpg[/IMG]
Kids love em:
[IMG]http://www.atlnightspots.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/379053_10.jpg[/IMG]
Tom Cruise loves em:
[IMG]http://ohverlycritical.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/celeb-feet-tom-cruise-air-jordan-xi-concord-05.jpeg[/IMG]
Even your :"Awesome God" loves em:
[IMG]http://kicksaddict.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/kobe-bryant-concord-11s.jpg[/IMG]
When you still get that kind of reaction to a 17 year old shoe of yours, more than likely you did [I]something[/I] on a GOAT level that's not easily forgotten. Kobe's going into the "Rest of us" group, like everybody else. You can thank his shot selection for[I] that[/I].
:cheers:
[QUOTE=selrahc]Now that the Lakers have acquired Ramon Sessions and Kobe will win another championship this year, he will be remembered as the GOAT. In 20 years when kids are younger and the years have gone by and people have forgotten some of the bad chucking games he's had, they will only remember his stats and big games and rings and people will consider him better than Michael Jordan.
:rockon:
And LeBron James will still have 0 rings.[/QUOTE]
A. Nobody with any brain cells will say he's better than MJ, regardless of how many more rings.
B. We've seen this by laker fans every year it seems. Whenever they make a trade or acquire a player, they say the same they're gonna win, but later on they trash said player. The list of players that were hailed by Laker fans (I mean... Kobe fans) then thrown under the bus is endless.
[QUOTE=Nevaeh]People were rioting and waiting in 3 hour long lines this past winter, yes WINTER for a pair of these:
[IMG]http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41SMnEbX8TL._SY395_.jpg[/IMG]
Kids love em:
[IMG]http://www.atlnightspots.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/379053_10.jpg[/IMG]
Tom Cruise loves em:
[IMG]http://ohverlycritical.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/celeb-feet-tom-cruise-air-jordan-xi-concord-05.jpeg[/IMG]
Even your :"Awesome God" loves em:
[IMG]http://kicksaddict.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/kobe-bryant-concord-11s.jpg[/IMG]
When you still get that kind of reaction to a 17 year old shoe of yours, more than likely you did [I]something[/I] on a GOAT level that's not easily forgotten. Kobe's going into the "Rest of us" group, like everybody else. You can thank his shot selection for[I] that[/I].
:cheers:[/QUOTE]
and thats a wrap folks
/thread
In 20 years, there is a slight chance that Kobe will be remembered throughout the world as the Greatest of All Time. Here's why. (Quick disclaimer: I am not going to argue about who IS the GOAT - legitimate arguments can be made for a handful of players - this is discussing about how players are remembered/perceived).
Point 1: Most players and journalists today - and likely many on ISH - suffer the effects of a Reminiscence Bump (see [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reminiscence_bump[/url]) with regard to Jordan, whose prime was in their "formative years." If you're between the ages of about 20 and 40, the memory of Jordan - and his greatness - is burned so powerfully into your brain, your perspective probably isn't quite right about him (full disclosure: I'm included in this group). [b]Be a little bit skeptical of yourself when considering your ability to objectively compare things "outside your Reminiscence Bump" with things "inside it."[/b] (It's the same reason you'll get arguments about the best music of all time based on generations - Frank Sinatra or Elvis Presley or Eddie Van Halen or Kurt Cobain or Stephen Tyler or Michael Jackson or Justin Bieber.)
Point 2: As I've argued on these boards before (not going to be bothered to search for it) that the rise of Michael Jordan happened to correspond perfectly with the explosion of a new universal medium - cable TV - and Jordan happened to be the best player on the only team that was shown on national cable TV (by way of WGN), thus allowing the Bulls to become "America's Team" because they were the only team whose games were all nationally televised. This was also during the rise of ESPN, which, at the time, was staffed by people who were fans of sport as much as journalists (I mean, look at early Chris Berman videos). With Jordan peaking and winning multiple titles during this period, it was the perfect confluence to put Jordan into the national consciousness AND allow the Reminiscence Bump to really solidify his place among a generation as the Greatest Player of the time (and thanks to the Reminiscence Bump that tends to be expanded in our minds to be the Greatest Of All Time).
It's possible that Kobe can benefit from being in a similar situation, particularly if he finds a way to win another title or two. Twenty years from now, the 30- and 40-somethings will be those who grew up watching Kobe instead of Jordan, and thus Kobe will be the one gaining the benefits of the Reminiscence bump in casual conversation (those who remember Jordan will be the equivalent of todays 50- and 60-year olds who are seen as a bit "old and out of touch" by the younger crowd - just look at the way ISH discounts those who want to talk about Wilt or Oscar or Russell as being in the GOAT conversation).
In addition, Kobe may benefit globally by the rise of a new universal media - the internet - in the same way Jordan benefitted from Cable. We already know that Kobe is incredibly popular in China. It's quite possible that in 20 years, basketball will continue to expand globally and as it does, the beneficiary of the Reminiscence Bump AND the expansion of a new media type will shift from Jordan to Kobe. (Note that this benefit should probably shift to LeBron instead of Kobe, but LeBron still needs to win a couple of titles, since "you have to win a title to be a great player" has been added post hoc ergo propter hoc to our criteria for "GOAT" status since the Magic/Bird era).
Whether or not Kobe/Jordan/Other is the GOAT, sure it's possible Kobe will be remembered by the world at large (if not current ISH junkies or even Americans, who have Jordan Jordan Jordan drilled into their heads) as the GOAT in 20 years. Likely? Maybe not. But some of the same forces that lead to Jordan currently holding the "GOAT" title in most of the ISH participants will certainly be in play in Kobe's favor in 20 years.
Nice post S and F. You bring up good points about the "Age Factor", in terms of what you were exposed to at a certain time in your life. The problem, however is that if you're a player who the world can watch, via the internet or TV, who has blatantly obvious flaws in their game, no amount of coverage or "praise" is gonna correct that. You are who you are.
Kobe's had 16 solid years (without breaks in-between like MJ) to get to that level you're talking about, and still hasn't reached it. Jordan, by year 9 of his career, was getting GOAT talk, based on the fact that he met every criteria of what you would consider a complete Basketball player.
He passed the eye test, the stat test, the clutch test, the consistency test, and the popularity test, even after becoming a "new" player during the 95-96 season. If you have to "wait around" for someone's GOAT stature to kick in, 20 years after the fact, it was probably never there to begin with.
In 20 years, the most WTF thing will be how Steve Nash was a two-time MVP winner. Book it.
OP is a dumbass.
[QUOTE=Nevaeh]Even your :"Awesome God" loves em:
[IMG]http://kicksaddict.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/kobe-bryant-concord-11s.jpg[/IMG]
[/QUOTE]
1st.. having a GOAT shoe brand doesn't equate to being the goat. And second.. Kobe was a shoe "free-agent" that season.
[IMG]http://i33.tinypic.com/2h5jmmw.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i41.tinypic.com/mmgdwx.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i44.tinypic.com/2q9gw0h.jpg[/IMG]
Iversons
[IMG]http://i33.tinypic.com/20us778.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i38.tinypic.com/2mxiy43.jpg[/IMG]
Converse
and of course Jordan's from the pic you posted.. (MJ was lobbying to get Kobe signed w/ Jordan).
[QUOTE=andgar923]A. Nobody with any brain cells will say he's better than MJ, regardless of how many more rings.
B. We've seen this by laker fans every year it seems. Whenever they make a trade or acquire a player, they say the same they're gonna win, but later on they trash said player. The list of players that were hailed by Laker fans (I mean... Kobe fans) then thrown under the bus is endless.[/QUOTE]
Dude stop embarrassing yourself cuz that's what Lebronytes do. i.e. Mo Williams and the Cavs, Chalmers, Cole, Battier, Haslem, Anthony, on the Heat. Now I guess you're gonna tell us how "great" Smush Parker, Chris Mihm, and Kwame Brown were....right?!:sleeping
Try again:no:
[IMG]http://gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs1/1183019_o.gif[/IMG]