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-   -   Evaluation on SG Prospects (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=264253)

Snoop_Cat 05-19-2012 02:40 AM

Evaluation on SG Prospects
 
From what I've so far in this draft process, I think no other player with legitimate potential is being overlooked more than Terrence Ross.

Here's just some of the SG prospects rated ahead of him - Beal, Lamb, Rivers, Barnes(if slotted at SG), and on some boards, Wroten and Waiters.

Let's start with Rivers cause he's simple - he's a ball dominant player who can't even score at a high enough clip and efficiently enough to justify it and is pretty limited athletically. My roommate's a big Duke fan so I saw enough to be a huge doubter.

Barnes has the mental fortitude of a peewee league player and all he can do is literally spot up and shoot and can't create his own offense.

Lamb, I personally like skill-wise and I can't critique too much because I admittedly haven't seen much, but he seems to show disinterest a lot of the time and made it hard to tell with one of the most selfish backcourts that I saw in UConn along with UF....

Which brings me to Beal. He should've been more assertive over chuck-happy Walker and Boynton and he is a great rebounder for his size, but holy crap is he being overrated. I think he's a terrific player but many people/sites have dubbed him as similar to Ray Allen. Beal has no where near the offense creating and 3 point shooting ability that Allen had.

TERRENCE ROSS is a legit 6-7, and though he showed some passiveness throughout the season, he showed how dominant of a scorer he can be at the NITs by scoring at will, averaging a good deal over 20. He also had to deal with a selfish teammate(s) like Beal and Lamb in Wroten who can't run an offense. He's a terrific rebounder like Beal (why does Beal get credit for this but not Ross?), a better 3 point shooter %age wise than those guys. At the 2 guard, Ross will have a big size advantage over a lot of guys in the NBA, and though his handle has a good deal to be desired, his size will allow him to make up for it in the post. Also, watching this guy, he's a terrific athlete who uses his size and length to be a ferocious defender.

If I'm a GM, I'm looking at Ross at least on par with Beal and Lamb.

ukfan22 05-19-2012 07:10 AM

Re: Evaluation on SG Prospects
 
Well, Ross is a year older. If you look at his freshman stats, they are nowhere near as good as Beal's were this year.

But I think both are excellent. Beal gets Ray Allen comparisons because his form is picture perfect, although his shooting percentage this year don't necessarily reflect it. His body is also NBA ready.

What do you think of Doron Lamb?

Snoop_Cat 05-19-2012 10:19 AM

Re: Evaluation on SG Prospects
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ukfan22
Well, Ross is a year older. If you look at his freshman stats, they are nowhere near as good as Beal's were this year.

But I think both are excellent. Beal gets Ray Allen comparisons because his form is picture perfect, although his shooting percentage this year don't necessarily reflect it. His body is also NBA ready.

What do you think of Doron Lamb?


I like Lamb a lot, he is an amazing shooter. That alone should at least guarantee him a roster spot. I haven't really seen much of him outside of the NCAA tournament but he seems to be a capable point guard as well (capable, not good). I'm not sure what his exact measurements are, but I always thought he looked a little on the short side too.

From what I saw, he's not that impressively explosive and isn't the best finisher around the hoop, so I would think he would be a late first/very early second, but teams need shooters like him so he'll get a lot of burn... I think he'll end up being a steal and a good role player but not a star by any means.

KG215 05-19-2012 03:54 PM

Re: Evaluation on SG Prospects
 
So we're just going to act like this thread is a little flawed? You take the other guys, point out what's wrong with their game while not mentioning their strengths, and only talk about Ross's strengths and make excuses for why he might not have been as productive in college. I actually like Ross. I've only seen him four or five times compared to twice that for Beal and Lamb, but I like what I've seen.

Thing is, the weaknesses you mentioned for those guys are legit, but you can't ignore their strengths and ignore Ross's weaknesses when trying to make your case as to why he should be on the same level as they are as a prospect.

Oh, and Barnes isn't a SG.

el gringos 05-19-2012 04:51 PM

Re: Evaluation on SG Prospects
 
Jared Cunningham and tony wroten are the two best pg prospects and Ross is the best sg.

KG215 05-19-2012 07:41 PM

Re: Evaluation on SG Prospects
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by el gringos
Jared Cunningham and tony wroten are the two best pg prospects.


Damian Lillard and Kendall Marshall say hi. I know they may not have as high of a ceiling but they both will probably be lottery picks. Marshall may not, but he will more than likely go in the top 15-20.

idizzle 05-19-2012 07:54 PM

Re: Evaluation on SG Prospects
 
The Wziards said last year if Harrison Barnes had came out they would have drafted and put him at SG next to John Wall. I'm iffy on him playing SG.

idizzle 05-19-2012 08:00 PM

Re: Evaluation on SG Prospects
 
Brad Beal and Will Barton are boys.



http://nbadraft.net/nba-draft-top-10-shooting-guards

Snoop_Cat 05-19-2012 10:45 PM

Re: Evaluation on SG Prospects
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KG215
So we're just going to act like this thread is a little flawed? You take the other guys, point out what's wrong with their game while not mentioning their strengths, and only talk about Ross's strengths and make excuses for why he might not have been as productive in college. I actually like Ross. I've only seen him four or five times compared to twice that for Beal and Lamb, but I like what I've seen.

Thing is, the weaknesses you mentioned for those guys are legit, but you can't ignore their strengths and ignore Ross's weaknesses when trying to make your case as to why he should be on the same level as they are as a prospect.

Oh, and Barnes isn't a SG.


I have no problem admitting that of course my thread is going to be biased. I note that teammates can be a weakness too as in the case of Beal and I fully acknowledge that Ross was like Beal in that teammates shouldn't have been a total excuse to limited production. In the case of Barnes, I did put a side note saying IF he's at SG - as in, just because his position is at the 3 doesn't mean there's no possibility he could spend a lot time at the 2 depending on the team.

A big part of my claim for Ross is also accentuating how underrated he is by pointing out the fact that guys like Beal are getting credited for certain abilities but Ross isn't getting the same dues for having the same abilities or even being better at them.

Don't get me wrong, Ross has his weaknesses as well, and since you pointed out, his ball work has some to be desired and he settles for jumpers WAY too much because he can't always create his own shot apart from the sometimes quick dribble and move. In that regard, he's like Barnes (for argument's sake, let's just both categorize them as general wing players). Yet, Barnes is discussed as many as a top 5 pick whereas Ross is seen as a 15-25 prospect, which I don't get especially when the things they are similarly good at, Ross does at a better clip.

My argument here isn't as much to point out strengths and weaknesses of Ross compared to others as it is to lament about the discrepancy in attention and "scouting grades" when Ross has proven himself to be as capable or even largely better in many regards than some of the "better" prospects. I admit he's got flaws where others are better - i.e. Rivers with his penetration and overall ball handling ability - but in the case of an overall package from what you would want from a SG, Ross is better than a lot of these guys.

el gringos 05-20-2012 12:53 AM

Re: Evaluation on SG Prospects
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KG215
Damian Lillard and Kendall Marshall say hi. I know they may not have as high of a ceiling but they both will probably be lottery picks. Marshall may not, but he will more than likely go in the top 15-20.

I like Millard and might be one of the very few here that have actually seen him play,, and I think he's worth a first round pick but he is a 6th man type. Cunningham is the most under rated prospect right now and he and wroten are a level above those two. Not on the lists you read but on how it will be

Thorpesaurous 05-21-2012 12:06 PM

Re: Evaluation on SG Prospects
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Snoop_Cat
I like Lamb a lot, he is an amazing shooter. That alone should at least guarantee him a roster spot. I haven't really seen much of him outside of the NCAA tournament but he seems to be a capable point guard as well (capable, not good). I'm not sure what his exact measurements are, but I always thought he looked a little on the short side too.

From what I saw, he's not that impressively explosive and isn't the best finisher around the hoop, so I would think he would be a late first/very early second, but teams need shooters like him so he'll get a lot of burn... I think he'll end up being a steal and a good role player but not a star by any means.



I agree with this completely. I like Lamb, but a ton will depend on his situation, which is true of everyone, but particularly with guys with specific sets of skills.
If he wound up on a team with a legit post threat, or a ball dominant wing player, he could be a real asset as an off ball PG. He'd be ideal in the triangle if anyone was still really running it. On a team like Miami with ball dominant wings who could use him to spot up. I could see him as an old Chauncey Billups style kind of a guy. Good in the grind it out half court sets, but not someone you want in the middle of your break or someone you want having to break people down off the dribble against the shotclock.

BJ Armstrong, Trent Tucker, Craig Hodges, The Paxsons, Steve Kerr ... all those guys played PG technically, and they have a few things in common, they can all really shoot and they all played opposite a big time post presence in the triangle. I don't think Lamb is that level of shooter, but I do think he's got a few more PG skills and is a better defender than most of them. (Young Trent Tucker is actually a pretty good comp I think).

Snoop_Cat 05-21-2012 02:36 PM

Re: Evaluation on SG Prospects
 
^^^^ Yup.

Also, another guy I really like is Kim English. He's like Doron Lamb in a way that he is a great shooter and moves well without the ball. He can't create as well as Lamb can but like Lamb, he's not the best at attacking inside.

English is also pretty big for a SG at 6'6" and is one hell of a hustle player.

bsyde82 05-22-2012 02:56 PM

Re: Evaluation on SG Prospects
 
As a udub alum, I watch a lot of Husky games despite not living in Seattle anymore. TRoss is a streaky shooter, but has good form and excellent lift on his shot, making him a great catch and shoot player. And when I say streaky, I don't necessarily mean he was cold and hot. Just passive and aggressive, which has been the "knock" on him during his time at udub. As someone mentioned, a lot of this has to do with the fact he played with Wroten, a low-IQ, ball dominant PG who was supposed to be the second coming of Magic (exaggeration), but ended up being a scoring PG.

But Ross had countless games where he'd score like 2 points in the 1st half, then explode for 20+ in the 2nd. He'd be great with a pass first PG as he can catch and shoot from anywhere on the floor, and he has really impressive athleticism. People mention it when talking about him, but it's never really emphasized. I'm trying to be objective when I say he's one of the most athletic players in the draft, at least in terms of explosion. Lots of lobs in college. Became a much more aggressive defender with his size, although he's just average in length/wingspan.

Like OP said, his biggest weakness is probably his unadvanced ball handling. I didn't really see him turn the ball over much, as he was smart never to try to do something beyond his abilities, but he is mostly a dribble or two then shoot kind of SG, if not catching and shooting.

If the Lakers were lucky enough to have him fall to their spot, he'd be a pretty nice asset with immediate playing time potential, off the bench. I'm thinking when they start reviewing measurables and such, however, his stock will jump. Not too many 6'7" shooting guards with a nice stroke and explosiveness.

kurple 05-23-2012 04:32 AM

Re: Evaluation on SG Prospects
 
No mention of John Jenkins? Amazing 3pt shooter..

Jenkins, D.Lamb and Kim English are the SG's I want the Nuggets to take a real look at (Jenkins had a workout in Denver yesterday)

All of them could become great roleplayers

Beal and J.Lamb got all-star potential, maybe even Ross as well. But they need minutes from the beginning and I'm not sure Ross will get that.

I would want Ross on the Nuggets (he also had a workout in Denver yesterday) if he wasnt so similar to Jordan Hamilton

Snoop_Cat 05-23-2012 02:45 PM

Re: Evaluation on SG Prospects
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kurple
No mention of John Jenkins? Amazing 3pt shooter..

Jenkins, D.Lamb and Kim English are the SG's I want the Nuggets to take a real look at (Jenkins had a workout in Denver yesterday)

All of them could become great roleplayers

Beal and J.Lamb got all-star potential, maybe even Ross as well. But they need minutes from the beginning and I'm not sure Ross will get that.

I would want Ross on the Nuggets (he also had a workout in Denver yesterday) if he wasnt so similar to Jordan Hamilton


Well here's the thing about Jenkins IMO (I'm by no means an NBA scout so this is just my opinion lol)

Yeah, like D.Lamb, he's a terrific 3 point shooter. But shooting and moving using screens is literally all he can do, so in that regard he'll be greatly influenced by the team's style that he gets drafted by. Also like Lamb, he's not a great finisher inside but at least Lamb has somewhat of a quicker slash move whereas Jenkins is pretty slow and can't do that. Jenkins is also overall less athletic and though I'm normally someone who thinks athleticism gets overrated, Jenkins is really slow laterally at even a college level, so that's really going to hurt him in the NBA. But like Lamb, his shooting should definitely find him a spot.

bysde82 - Yeah, Wroten was pretty ball dominant, he was basically another SG out there but he didn't perform well enough at all to justify the usage amount he was getting.


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