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-   -   Let's talk about Thomas Robinson (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=265630)

Lebron23 05-30-2012 03:01 PM

Let's talk about Thomas Robinson
 
Do you think he will have a solid career in the NBA? He averaged 18 ppg and 11 rpg in his last NCAA Season. Robinson is a hard worker, and he's also has an NBA body.

bsyde82 05-30-2012 03:29 PM

Re: Let's talk about Thomas Robinson
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lebron23
Do you think he will have a solid career in the NBA? He averaged 18 ppg and 11 rpg in his last NCAA Season. Robinson is a hard worker, and he's also has an NBA body.


He's not that tall/long though so I feel like that limits his ceiling. OK jump shot for a big. I see him as a rich man's Carl Landry. Boards, energy points, solid D. Only one year of college ball though as a starter so its hard to project.

I thought he showed good competitiveness in the title game when they were clearly the inferior team. I like him. Don't think he's #2 pick material, but he'll be a solid contributor wherever he goes IMO.

Snoop_Cat 05-30-2012 04:01 PM

Re: Let's talk about Thomas Robinson
 
Robinson is 6'9 with a 7'1" wingspan, for a PF that's more than average so he's not going to be limited by size.

People give him a lot of flack for being "unrefined" and a "hustle player". Pure hustle players don't dominate even at the college level like guys like Robinson has. He shows up in the big games as well which is something that guys like Barnes is clearly incapable of.

His skillset isn't comprised of elite post play but it's hell of a lot of better than guys like Drummond (who's going to be a total bust by the way, people who call him a defensive presence have no idea what they're talking about and are solely basing that on his size and athleticism). Thomas has a somewhat decent jump shot and apparently he's been working on his extending his range to the 3.

Robinson is a man, he knows how to work the ball in the post and he's not great, but he's solid. He's got a solid foundation which will make it a lot easier to build upon through coaching unlike a guy like Drummond or Davis who either have no moves whatsoever, don't have the physical body of Robinson to post up down low, or just look straight up uncomfortable. He's also a terrific rebounder and gives it all every time.

I'm trying to think of a comparison and I'd say maybe a taller Paul Millsap? Which is still pretty good and definitely worth a top 5 pick, particularly in this draft.

Thorpesaurous 05-31-2012 03:03 PM

Re: Let's talk about Thomas Robinson
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Snoop_Cat
Robinson is 6'9 with a 7'1" wingspan, for a PF that's more than average so he's not going to be limited by size.

People give him a lot of flack for being "unrefined" and a "hustle player". Pure hustle players don't dominate even at the college level like guys like Robinson has. He shows up in the big games as well which is something that guys like Barnes is clearly incapable of.

His skillset isn't comprised of elite post play but it's hell of a lot of better than guys like Drummond (who's going to be a total bust by the way, people who call him a defensive presence have no idea what they're talking about and are solely basing that on his size and athleticism). Thomas has a somewhat decent jump shot and apparently he's been working on his extending his range to the 3.

Robinson is a man, he knows how to work the ball in the post and he's not great, but he's solid. He's got a solid foundation which will make it a lot easier to build upon through coaching unlike a guy like Drummond or Davis who either have no moves whatsoever, don't have the physical body of Robinson to post up down low, or just look straight up uncomfortable. He's also a terrific rebounder and gives it all every time.

I'm trying to think of a comparison and I'd say maybe a taller Paul Millsap? Which is still pretty good and definitely worth a top 5 pick, particularly in this draft.



I agree with most of this. I think in the right situation, he's got a big upside, that I'm curious what you particular would think of. If he gets in the right situation with a premium PG, he's got a lot of the face up blow by game of Amare. He's incredibly physical, and a great athlete, and he's not afraid to use it. Remember it took Amare a few years to refine that elbow J that made his face up game take off, and Robinson has some foundation for that.

I really like him. I wouldn't take him ahead of Gilchrist, but for me he's a lock top 3 - 5 guy.

Snoop_Cat 05-31-2012 03:23 PM

Re: Let's talk about Thomas Robinson
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Thorpesaurous
I agree with most of this. I think in the right situation, he's got a big upside, that I'm curious what you particular would think of. If he gets in the right situation with a premium PG, he's got a lot of the face up blow by game of Amare. He's incredibly physical, and a great athlete, and he's not afraid to use it. Remember it took Amare a few years to refine that elbow J that made his face up game take off, and Robinson has some foundation for that.

I really like him. I wouldn't take him ahead of Gilchrist, but for me he's a lock top 3 - 5 guy.


I agree that in the right situation, his game can grow to reflect more of what Amare had on the offensive end. Though he's tougher and stronger than Amare, I think Amare's got more of that explosive power game (well, had anyways) but I do think Robinson will (hopefully) develop much more of a post up game. And Robinson rebounds.

To be honest, I really think MKG is overhyped. Yeah, he's a bonafide winner, defender and just gives it 100% overall, but a team drafting in the top 3 usually needs a superstar/scoring type of player. Luckily, Washington isn't one of those teams and I'd still definitely take MKG with a top 5 pick, but with a top 3, especially if your team is in dire need of a star? I don't know.

He's pretty limited handle-wise, really used his strength advantage in college to post up smaller guys which won't happen as much in the NBA, and has fairly poor shooting mechanics. I personally don't think MKG will ever make an all-star game but will be a good starter. Then again, there are busts and surprises all the time, and the NBA is what you make of it and MKG tries SO hard. But, from just a pure prospect standpoint, I find MKG really lacking in offensive skills and isn't a transcendent game altering player like Davis. Nothing about him screams superstar, but he's something every team needs.

Meticode 06-08-2012 10:08 PM

Re: Let's talk about Thomas Robinson
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bsyde82
He's not that tall/long though so I feel like that limits his ceiling. OK jump shot for a big. I see him as a rich man's Carl Landry. Boards, energy points, solid D. Only one year of college ball though as a starter so its hard to project.

I thought he showed good competitiveness in the title game when they were clearly the inferior team. I like him. Don't think he's #2 pick material, but he'll be a solid contributor wherever he goes IMO.

Actually he is long, which more than makes up for his lack of height with his wingspan and athleticism. At the combine his official height was 6-8.75". His wingspan though was huge at 7-3.25" which is a longer wingspan than the three 7 foot centers in the draft expected to go in the first round. He's looking better and better as a top 3 pick in-my-opinion and possesses a greater offensive ability than Davis. I wouldn't be surprised to see him go at #2 after his combine measurements.

LBJMVP 06-09-2012 12:36 AM

Re: Let's talk about Thomas Robinson
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Snoop_Cat
Robinson is 6'9 with a 7'1" wingspan, for a PF that's more than average so he's not going to be limited by size.

People give him a lot of flack for being "unrefined" and a "hustle player". Pure hustle players don't dominate even at the college level like guys like Robinson has. He shows up in the big games as well which is something that guys like Barnes is clearly incapable of.

His skillset isn't comprised of elite post play but it's hell of a lot of better than guys like Drummond (who's going to be a total bust by the way, people who call him a defensive presence have no idea what they're talking about and are solely basing that on his size and athleticism). Thomas has a somewhat decent jump shot and apparently he's been working on his extending his range to the 3.

Robinson is a man, he knows how to work the ball in the post and he's not great, but he's solid. He's got a solid foundation which will make it a lot easier to build upon through coaching unlike a guy like Drummond or Davis who either have no moves whatsoever, don't have the physical body of Robinson to post up down low, or just look straight up uncomfortable. He's also a terrific rebounder and gives it all every time.

I'm trying to think of a comparison and I'd say maybe a taller Paul Millsap? Which is still pretty good and definitely worth a top 5 pick, particularly in this draft.



not true.

barnes drop 40 on clemson in the acc tournament in his freshman season.
and played very well during his freshman year in the ncaa tournament.

didnt play too great this year, but he definetly has the potential to be the best player in this draft.

Thorpesaurous 06-09-2012 11:59 AM

Re: Let's talk about Thomas Robinson
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Meticode
Actually he is long, which more than makes up for his lack of height with his wingspan and athleticism. At the combine his official height was 6-8.75". His wingspan though was huge at 7-3.25" which is a longer wingspan than the three 7 foot centers in the draft expected to go in the first round. He's looking better and better as a top 3 pick in-my-opinion and possesses a greater offensive ability than Davis. I wouldn't be surprised to see him go at #2 after his combine measurements.



I agree with this completely.

Those measurements, particularly that 7-3+ wingspan are huge for him. And I think he's firmly entrenched himself as the second tier of this draft, perhaps with MKG, at this point.

JMT 06-11-2012 12:32 PM

Re: Let's talk about Thomas Robinson
 
Ceiling somewhere around Juwan Howard. Nice player, will be able to post pretty good numbers on a bad team early in his career.

I see him as a better version of Drew Gooden. Guy who will play a long time because teams will desire the variety of things he can bring to their front line, but certainly not a franchise player.

Snoop_Cat 06-11-2012 01:58 PM

Re: Let's talk about Thomas Robinson
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JMT
Ceiling somewhere around Juwan Howard. Nice player, will be able to post pretty good numbers on a bad team early in his career.

I see him as a better version of Drew Gooden. Guy who will play a long time because teams will desire the variety of things he can bring to their front line, but certainly not a franchise player.




I agree with the notion that he is definitely not a franchise player. On the other hand, if you're a team completely devoid of a star/scoring power like the Bobcats, can you really afford to take a guy like MKG over Robinson.

MKG's strengths and weaknesses have been talked about already to a decent extent so I'm not going to really talk about those, but I'm one of those guys who thinks MKG has to be at best the second or third option on your team. On that regard, I think MKG is getting a bit overvalued for his defensive stopper abilities as a superstar.

I don't really agree with your view of Robinson as a better Drew Gordon, but that's the beauty of it I guess, no one really can say for sure until it happens. He's explosive and strong as hell, very long and athletic and has more moves than a lot of big guys in the league. Based on that, I don't see why he can't be a less scoring but better rebounding Amare given that he has a decent guard rotation with him.

senelcoolidge 06-11-2012 03:14 PM

Re: Let's talk about Thomas Robinson
 
He could be a solid player, but not on the level of the Blake Griffin's, Kevin Love's, Aldridge's, etc. The best PF's. He will get eaten up by those guys.

Snoop_Cat 06-11-2012 03:30 PM

Re: Let's talk about Thomas Robinson
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by senelcoolidge
He could be a solid player, but not on the level of the Blake Griffin's, Kevin Love's, Aldridge's, etc. The best PF's. He will get eaten up by those guys.



I know that things don't obviously work as out as "scouted", but on paper, as prospects, what exactly differentiates Robinson with a guy like Blake Griffin.

Griffin may ultimately end up putting up better stats and is a "highlight guy", but Griffin honestly has no real skills - zero post game,no jump shot to speak of, just a ton of athleticism and a tremendous motor.

To contrast, Robinson is a good height, super long, and has really produced at a college level which I always think is pretty important. He's got some post moves (which I think will improve at the next level because he's got a good lower body and footwork from what I've seen). In that regard, I think he's better than Griffin in this category but is similar to him in the fact that he also can't shoot for sh*t and relies a lot on spin/power moves.

Clippersfan86 06-11-2012 05:06 PM

Re: Let's talk about Thomas Robinson
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Snoop_Cat
I know that things don't obviously work as out as "scouted", but on paper, as prospects, what exactly differentiates Robinson with a guy like Blake Griffin.

Griffin may ultimately end up putting up better stats and is a "highlight guy", but Griffin honestly has no real skills - zero post game,no jump shot to speak of, just a ton of athleticism and a tremendous motor.

To contrast, Robinson is a good height, super long, and has really produced at a college level which I always think is pretty important. He's got some post moves (which I think will improve at the next level because he's got a good lower body and footwork from what I've seen). In that regard, I think he's better than Griffin in this category but is similar to him in the fact that he also can't shoot for sh*t and relies a lot on spin/power moves.


There is one rookie in NBA history to average Blake Griffin's numbers and his name was Kareem Abdul Jabbar. Griffin was on Sports Illustrated top 10 rookies of all time ranking. You REALLY need to cut out the stupid bullshit like this.

Griffin is the only modern PF (after guys like Hayes etc who dominated early NBA decades) to start off his first two years in the NBA with the averages he's put up. Since when did it become subpar to put up 21/11/3? That's still elite PF numbers. If Robinson EVER averages 20/10 for even a single season and a couple borderline 20/10 seasons he will be a massive success. So please don't act like Griffin is a dime a dozen because history says otherwise.

If a player with a superb work ethic like Griffin who isn't refined or doesn't have a great game yet can put up 21/11/3 the rest of the league is in deep shit. If he refines his game and adds to it.. it's over for the rest of the league.

Meticode 06-11-2012 06:14 PM

Re: Let's talk about Thomas Robinson
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Snoop_Cat
Griffin may ultimately end up putting up better stats and is a "highlight guy", but Griffin honestly has no real skills - zero post game,no jump shot to speak of, just a ton of athleticism and a tremendous motor.

And somehow regardless of this he posted historic numbers as a rookie.

I agree with you some points in your post, but you just seem to hate him and aren't given credit where it's due.

Snoop_Cat 06-11-2012 06:54 PM

Re: Let's talk about Thomas Robinson
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Clippersfan86
There is one rookie in NBA history to average Blake Griffin's numbers and his name was Kareem Abdul Jabbar. Griffin was on Sports Illustrated top 10 rookies of all time ranking. You REALLY need to cut out the stupid bullshit like this.

Griffin is the only modern PF (after guys like Hayes etc who dominated early NBA decades) to start off his first two years in the NBA with the averages he's put up. Since when did it become subpar to put up 21/11/3? That's still elite PF numbers. If Robinson EVER averages 20/10 for even a single season and a couple borderline 20/10 seasons he will be a massive success. So please don't act like Griffin is a dime a dozen because history says otherwise.

If a player with a superb work ethic like Griffin who isn't refined or doesn't have a great game yet can put up 21/11/3 the rest of the league is in deep shit. If he refines his game and adds to it.. it's over for the rest of the league.


Listen, wise guy, I didn't say anything about Griffin's stats being subpar, reading comprehension isn't necessarily your strong suit I see. I even acknowledged Griffin could/would likely put up better numbers.

I said zero things about Blake Griffin's work ethic, him putting up subpar numbers, him being a dime a dozen, etc. I simply said he has no skills, are you trying to deny that? Or are you trying to tell me that Blake Griffin DOES currently have post moves, a jumper, can shoot free throws, etc, etc.

I'm not blasting Griffin's numbers, his impact, etc. 20/10 is clearly not scrub numbers. I'm blasting his lack of a refined game/skillset and speaking to the fact that a lot of his numbers come off his aggressiveness and heart, which in his own right is incredibly commendable. So please do stop whining about your beloved Clippers because I even give a disclaimer about it being "solely on paper as prospects" and don't speak in terms of exaggerated ultimatums that Robinson is going to average 20/10.

So unless you're going to tell me why Robinson isn't a good PROSPECT (which I also noted is a maybe considering the fact that prospects don't translate as believed to the pros) in comparisons to the likes of Griffin in terms of what they bring/have in their skillset, stop complaining.


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