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-   -   Has my jump shot form improved, and any critiques on my new form or dribbling? (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=276722)

Permodius 09-14-2012 07:24 PM

Has my jump shot form improved, and any critiques on my new form or dribbling?
 
Alright, so for literally years I have been trying to reinvent my jump shot and return it to its former glory before I severely sprained my ankle. I've asked you guys about my previous forms and you guys were wonderful with the help and I took absolutely everything said into account, now I think I finally found a form I am comfortable with. My main goal was to just have a form that felt comfortable and natural every time I shot, regardless of whether it went in or not, then I'd go from there. I also had a secondary goal of the form actually looking good, because I've had far too many comments on how ugly my various forms were (SO MANY FORMS I HAVE BEEN THROUGH), and it just sucks to hear. Also, I rather have to work on a form that I feel comfortable with, looks good, and doesn't go in than stick with a form then goes in a fair amount, but is inconsistent and I do not feel comfortable using (and is ugly).

This was from more than a year ago:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1mT5qRuvIc

As you can see, my form had a hitch to it and I just didn't feel confident with it, especially since it looked ugly.

This however, was about 5 months ago:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDX0uaMO-kY

I felt more comfortable with this shot, but it was too inconsistent, especially from 3-point range. I also would not feel comfortable at all shooting with elevation in this form, and elevation is crucial, especially during game time. On top of all that was mentioned, it wasn't very pretty, and I know that I shouldn't be hung up on the aesthetics of a shot, but I've always wanted a good looking shot.

Now this is my current form after dedicating so many hours of research and actual practice in order to isolate every single variable that I could tweak when it comes to a jump shot:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5GTl...ature=youtu.be

What do you guys think about it? How good/bad does it look? Are there any other things I should change about it? Thanks to all you guys in advanced, I know I will love the feedback, whether good or bad.

kNIOKAS 09-15-2012 05:37 AM

Re: Has my jump shot form improved, and any critiques on my new form or dribbling?
 
Watched 5 months and now. I like it up to the point. The release is good for me, but you are obviously struggling bringing the ball up to the shooting position. It was apparent some time ago, still is now. You have to work on it, make it a fast, smooth, near-the-body motion. Right now I'd strip you 8 times out of ten just going into the shot.
The release looks really good but one thing: the wrist is somewhat going here and there in the different stages of the shot. It looks you almost try using left hand, then moving off of it and it messes the whole thing up. You must shoot as you only shooting with your main hand, the other does nothing but hold the ball in the position. Try shooting solely using your right hand, just practise that motion. Then you wrist would always be underneath the ball, and you would have gotten that part straight.

It looks good, but you're missing on quite a few. Basically, one must first try to make them, then make making them appear in a specific way. Kinda backwards to learn shooting form without learning making buckets. Don't forget that also...

CeltsGarlic 09-15-2012 06:06 AM

Re: Has my jump shot form improved, and any critiques on my new form or dribbling?
 
As, kNIOKAS, the shooting coach, said, the way you bring the ball up is very bad, it just takes too much time and, its too obvious. I expect you dont shoot the same during games, cause everything changes when you play reall ball : elevation, quickness etc. So the first thing I would work on is getting the ball up.

Go Getter 09-15-2012 09:21 AM

Re: Has my jump shot form improved, and any critiques on my new form or dribbling?
 
Scrap the whole shot and start from scratch. Your base and release need a lot of work. Practice (good form) until it becomes 2nd nature.

Go Getter 09-15-2012 09:25 AM

Re: Has my jump shot form improved, and any critiques on my new form or dribbling?
 
You need to do push ups so you can start shooting the ball from above your eyes.

kNIOKAS 09-15-2012 09:39 AM

Re: Has my jump shot form improved, and any critiques on my new form or dribbling?
 
^ well I wouldn't be that radical. I think it's time to repeat my second point, or, rather, to re-tell the experiment that was carried out some day in the past:
One amateur was taught to play golf by a professional. In a session, he was told how to hold a hand, how to prepare for a swing, etc. In every each try he did wrong, he was corrected and told what he's doing "wrong".
The second amateur was taught by a psychologist (IIRC). He was told to relax, get comfortable, come to terms with the golf stick, and just try hitting the goddamn target.
After the practise, the amateurs went head to head, and the second one outperformed the first one easily. Because focusing to put the ball into the basket beats focusing shoot the ball "correctly" everyday. Simple.

Don't be discouraged by the criticism, just go around looking at the others shooting, try identify the critical aspects and go work them out yourself.

NotYetGreat 09-15-2012 09:59 AM

Re: Has my jump shot form improved, and any critiques on my new form or dribbling?
 
I agree with kNIOKAS. Everything looks pretty good, except for when you bring up the ball for release. I'm not sure if I commented before, but I do remember watching that video from a year back and seeing that you really did need to tweak your shot. You have come a long way though, man. I'll tell you that. However, you really do need to work on bringing the ball up comfortably, because it looks like you're not totally comfortable with it and that part is pretty crucial. It not only sets up the direction of the ball once released, but it can also throw off your jump/ascent, which is BIG.

I think the best thing for you to do now is to do form shooting. And a lot of it. I personally hate the mentality of throwing up an infinite amount of shots in order for you to improve, but in this case, I really think you need to dial in that first motion of driving the ball up. Start close to the baset and experiment. You'll know you're doing it right when:

1) The upward motion is quick, yet not forced. When people think of a quick release, they often start cocking the ball back, which more often than not gives the ball a sharper trajectory and decreases the size of the rim since it's moving in too sharply. Another important thing to note here is that the elbow should move very minimally in this part. Excessive elbow flexion is another thing that causes the cocking back of the ball.

2) The upward motion doesn't cause you to flick the ball. I actually always start with form shooting before I do any of my higher intensity shooting drills. Always help me set up the rhythm and gets me to focus on not flicking the ball. Sure, sometimes, it goes in, but it's not natural. If you brought up the ball correctly, it won't make you feel like you just threw up a really awkward shot and cause you to let go of your follow-through on the release.

These are all I got right now and I'm not sure if I have anything up here in my noggin. If ever, I'll just get back to this thread. Good to see your improvement, man. That's what happens when you put in the work. :cheers:

Burgz V2 09-15-2012 11:35 AM

Re: Has my jump shot form improved, and any critiques on my new form or dribbling?
 
dont bounce when you shoot

shot is definitely better but still needs work. you shouldnt bring the ball so far away from your body and then bring it back. youre moving the ball too much. from your hip to above your head the L in your shooting elbow should be locked and your wrist should be cocked back all the way. when the ball is at your head and you are ready to shoot release your elbow before you release your wrist, the wrist only has one motion and that's the last component of the shot, it should be fast and you should be snapping your wrist hard.

look up Dave Hopla, he was a shot doctor for guys like Ray Allen and Kobe i changed my shot from the start after watching and reading some of his stuff

Permodius 09-16-2012 10:02 PM

Re: Has my jump shot form improved, and any critiques on my new form or dribbling?
 
So I've been shooting around the past two days and put into practice all of the advice I was given here. I particularly experimented on the way I brought the ball up. Honestly I was off when making that video and I think when I bring the ball up, it is usually aligned better and comes up without much left or right motion. I tried to make my shot more fluid or more of a quick release, but this would put too much power in my shot and I had to alleviate the added power by doing a combination of adding more arc to the shot and using less knees. Is having a quick release/ more fluid shot really worth me losing my elevation, or are there ways that I can have my shot be one fluid motion while still having elevation?

Another way I tried to experiment with bringing up my shot pocket was by having my form set perfectly when it was in the shot pocket (L shape elbow, spread fingers, cocked wrist, and forearm parallel to the floor). The problem was, that to maintain my form when bringing up my shot pocket I would have to stiffen it while I was in the air until I reached near the peak of my jump, then I would push and follow through. Shot my shot chamber (Point before release) really have to be stiff for me to keep the form? I have also been experimenting with my guide hand placement (I have tried guide hand on top of ball and guide hand elbow out, but most do not feel consistent as sometimes my guide hand collides with my shooting hand and I know that should not be), any tips on that too?

Burgz V2 09-17-2012 02:49 PM

Re: Has my jump shot form improved, and any critiques on my new form or dribbling?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Permodius
So I've been shooting around the past two days and put into practice all of the advice I was given here. I particularly experimented on the way I brought the ball up. Honestly I was off when making that video and I think when I bring the ball up, it is usually aligned better and comes up without much left or right motion. I tried to make my shot more fluid or more of a quick release, but this would put too much power in my shot and I had to alleviate the added power by doing a combination of adding more arc to the shot and using less knees. Is having a quick release/ more fluid shot really worth me losing my elevation, or are there ways that I can have my shot be one fluid motion while still having elevation?

Another way I tried to experiment with bringing up my shot pocket was by having my form set perfectly when it was in the shot pocket (L shape elbow, spread fingers, cocked wrist, and forearm parallel to the floor). The problem was, that to maintain my form when bringing up my shot pocket I would have to stiffen it while I was in the air until I reached near the peak of my jump, then I would push and follow through. Shot my shot chamber (Point before release) really have to be stiff for me to keep the form? I have also been experimenting with my guide hand placement (I have tried guide hand on top of ball and guide hand elbow out, but most do not feel consistent as sometimes my guide hand collides with my shooting hand and I know that should not be), any tips on that too?


you should be strong not stiff

stiffening when you are practicing is just for emphasis. you are trying to build muscle memory so that your body naturally remembers how you should shoot. you have to shoot a number of shots a certain way, the same way in order to do this. once you are in the games you dont have time to consciously think about locking your wrist or keeping an L in your elbow. Just keep practicing that way and when you go to play, just play and you should see results.

guide hand placement is not really that important but can be extremely important if you are doing it wrong. practice range shooting (shoot from in front of the rim, take two steps back every 5 made shots) but with one hand. when your range is maxed out go to the front of the rim again and put your guide hand into your shot and you'll actually have a better idea of where you can put your hand without bothering your shot.

kNIOKAS 09-18-2012 03:50 PM

Re: Has my jump shot form improved, and any critiques on my new form or dribbling?
 
Hey there, I'd encourage you to post the vid instead!

Permodius 09-18-2012 11:19 PM

Re: Has my jump shot form improved, and any critiques on my new form or dribbling?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kNIOKAS
Hey there, I'd encourage you to post the vid instead!


I'll get another video up, but I want to make sure that I actually make some progress before doing so. I don't want to think that I improved my shot, record it, and then find out that I am just giving you guys more footage of the same form I was using before. I am definitely working on it though. I've been doing some research, and apparently having an open stance is the way to go instead of squaring up, so I will try that out. Also making some slight tweaks to my shot pocket and where I place my guide hand.

kNIOKAS 09-19-2012 04:30 AM

Re: Has my jump shot form improved, and any critiques on my new form or dribbling?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Permodius
I'll get another video up, but I want to make sure that I actually make some progress before doing so. I don't want to think that I improved my shot, record it, and then find out that I am just giving you guys more footage of the same form I was using before. I am definitely working on it though. I've been doing some research, and apparently having an open stance is the way to go instead of squaring up, so I will try that out. Also making some slight tweaks to my shot pocket and where I place my guide hand.

I would highly suggest carrying on on the research. Nothing's more effective than the things you've found yourself and thought of explanation/rationale yourself.
The shooting form changes gradually, so you'd have to force the form you trying to make a habit. Shooting must be "natural", meaning all habits, but they are not put into effect quickly... That sucks... Good luck

Jyap9675 09-19-2012 07:33 AM

Re: Has my jump shot form improved, and any critiques on my new form or dribbling?
 
Shooting is very hard because firstly you need to learn the correct mechanics and then you gotta do a lot of repetitions for you to do it confidently in-game. This could take ages (I read somewhere like you need to shoot 200,000 reps for it to be "natural"). And you gotta make sure you're using the correct form each time.

Then incorporating moves that give you space off defender to get your shot-off and then increasing your shooting range. It takes dedication, hard work and genuine love for the game. I have a lot of respect for players that have dedicated their time improving their shot.

Permodius 10-01-2012 12:58 AM

Re: Has my jump shot form improved, and any critiques on my new form or dribbling?
 
Okay guys, so I have been absolutely working my ass off in regards to my jumpshot and have basically dedicated all the free time I have to fixing and perfecting it. I think that I have finally got there. I took everything you guys said into consideration including the past two topics I have made and have done an insurmountable amount of research on the side while also putting everything I have learned to practice. At this point, my jumpshot feels good, and it goes in pretty often, now the final criteria needed is for your guys approval on whether it looks good or not, and whether it is efficient and quick enough. When working on my jumpshot I particularly focused on speeding it up and the way I brought my shot pocket up as those were the biggest critiques I have received. Also I would like to thank you guys sincerely for all the advise and critiques you guys have given me because if it wasn't for you guys I would have thought that my jumpshot looked good and was efficient before, and thus I wouldn't have striven for absolute perfection and kept working on the form (I would have kept working on the jumpshot though).

This video is from earlier today and I have more footage if requested:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jck2m...ature=youtu.be

Fire away and give me all the good and the bad, and if I still have a lot of improving to do then I will suck it up and get back to the gym. Also, when it comes to critiques, I want to know mostly about the speed, efficiency, and prettiness of my jumpshot, everything else is welcome too but I would love it if you could say something about 1 or more of these things. Edit: I would also like you guys to consider my base (How I position my feet. Should I have a wide or narrow base/ should I have a squared or open stance etc.) as it is the last one of the things that I am unsure about when it comes to my new form. I would also like you guys to consider that when I am squared up (Both foot pointing at rim and parallel to each other with no foot in front of the other) and my feet are shoulder width apart or wider, my right knee buckles, so maybe you guys can help me with that.

Edit: I forgot to add, I would like to know if hopping into your jumpshot if you are set is traveling. Because this is one of the ways I have experimented when speeding up my jumpshot. I don't know exactly how to explain it but basically I drop into position instead of slowly bending my knees into position. Basically, I bend my knees to quickly that I am airborne for a split-second so that I land with my knees bent and ready to explode. I know that this is great off of the dribble but if you are set and you do this (since technically both feet leave the ground even if it is ever so slightly) I want to know if it is a travel. Honestly it isn't too important because I took the extra step and adjusted my hop by keeping my left forefoot on the ground and essentially tiptoeing for the small amount of time that my right foot and my left hind foot are airborne just to make sure that part of my foot is still grounded and I can't be called for the travel.

Edit: I found a video example of what I was talking about move, in the video this guy calls it a "drop."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvSQBiYO6Eg


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